| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” 13:33 - Sep 20 with 2730 views | Ryorry |
Said a spokesman from UK motor industry just now. Opens the door for other countries that are more environmentally conscious & progressive.
Sunak backtrack on environmental promises is scheduled for 16.30 we’re told. [Post edited 20 Sep 2023 13:39]
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 13:52 - Sep 20 with 2667 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
“Said a spokesman from UK motor industry just now. Opens the door for other countries that are more environmentally conscious & progressive. ”
The investment point I agree - I’m fairly sure you are wrong about motor industry ’concerns’ (environmentally conscious & progressive). This is an industry that tested emissions on animals, and lied and manipulated emissions testing. They were dragged into the electric era, and lobbying hard in Germany to kick the EU ban on ICE down the road. They want financial (govt subsidies) and regulatory stability.
The electric mini is being built in the UK largely due to Govt incentives, and also as a result of western firms (not only in the motor industry) increasingly pulling back from China due to state interference in their operations and concerns about their IP. |  | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 14:51 - Sep 20 with 2622 views | DJR |
It's all playing to the gallery in a desperate attempt to shore up the vote, not least because according to the leak of the Cabinet agenda to Lewis Goodall, it is to rule out two things which weren't really on the agenda, namely
a requirement for households to have 7 bins for recycling purposes, and
the law being used to shift food production away from animals. [Post edited 20 Sep 2023 14:54]
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:05 - Sep 20 with 2590 views | Ryorry |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 13:52 - Sep 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“Said a spokesman from UK motor industry just now. Opens the door for other countries that are more environmentally conscious & progressive. ”
The investment point I agree - I’m fairly sure you are wrong about motor industry ’concerns’ (environmentally conscious & progressive). This is an industry that tested emissions on animals, and lied and manipulated emissions testing. They were dragged into the electric era, and lobbying hard in Germany to kick the EU ban on ICE down the road. They want financial (govt subsidies) and regulatory stability.
The electric mini is being built in the UK largely due to Govt incentives, and also as a result of western firms (not only in the motor industry) increasingly pulling back from China due to state interference in their operations and concerns about their IP. |
The UK motor industry reps that I’ve heard were all appalled by the apparent reversals, saying they’ve already invested heavily in EV production because of previous government statements. | |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:10 - Sep 20 with 2579 views | Dubtractor |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 14:51 - Sep 20 by DJR |
It's all playing to the gallery in a desperate attempt to shore up the vote, not least because according to the leak of the Cabinet agenda to Lewis Goodall, it is to rule out two things which weren't really on the agenda, namely
a requirement for households to have 7 bins for recycling purposes, and
the law being used to shift food production away from animals. [Post edited 20 Sep 2023 14:54]
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There aren't plans for every house to have 7 recycling bins, but there are (were) very real proposals to improve recycling nationwide that are going to be discarded. Huge amounts of work by probably thousands of people over the last 4 years, and all of it for nothing. |  |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:11 - Sep 20 with 2573 views | DJR |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:05 - Sep 20 by Ryorry |
The UK motor industry reps that I’ve heard were all appalled by the apparent reversals, saying they’ve already invested heavily in EV production because of previous government statements. |
This the latest from the Guardian.
A spokesperson for Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) said:
JLR is investing £15 billion over the next five years to electrify our luxury brands, which is key to JLR reaching net zero carbon emissions across our supply chain, products and operations by 2039.
Our plans are on track and we welcome certainty around legislation for the end of sale of petrol and diesel powered cars.
A spokesperson for BMW, which owns the Mini brand, said:
Mini has already announced that it will become a purely electric brand from 2030 globally and this will not change.
The former Aston Martin boss Andy Palmer told Radio 4’s World At One:
The industry is already determined that we’re going to have electric cars.
And countries like the US are protecting their industry, whereas countries like China are projecting their industry. And the real risk here is that by not having an aggressive strategy, we’re just opening the door to basically Chinese sales.
Ian Plummer, commercial director at online vehicle marketplace Auto Trader, said:
Pushing back the 2030 ban on new petrol and diesel sales by five years is a hugely retrograde step which puts politics ahead of net zero goals.
This U-turn will cause a huge headache for manufacturers, who are crying out for clarity and consistency, and it is hardly going to encourage the vast majority of drivers who are yet to buy an electric car to make the switch.
And Steve Gooding, director of motoring research at the charity RAC Foundation, said:
With the car industry confident about its ability to make the switch away from pure petrol and diesel engines by 2030 whilst still meeting the appetite of the UK market for new cars, it is hard to see why anyone in No 10 thinks now is a good moment to row back. | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:17 - Sep 20 with 2547 views | TractorBrew |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:10 - Sep 20 by Dubtractor |
There aren't plans for every house to have 7 recycling bins, but there are (were) very real proposals to improve recycling nationwide that are going to be discarded. Huge amounts of work by probably thousands of people over the last 4 years, and all of it for nothing. |
A total shambles, and I am not quite sure what vote they are trying to win with this. The recycling / bin collection thing was actually a reasonable idea - the difference between councils is ridiculous, and drives a totally inefficient system.
Are they aiming for the UK to be known as the 'meh, whatevs' nation? We seem to stand for or lead anything anymore. I thought Brexit was about empowering us to be great again? | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:19 - Sep 20 with 2538 views | DanTheMan |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:05 - Sep 20 by Ryorry |
The UK motor industry reps that I’ve heard were all appalled by the apparent reversals, saying they’ve already invested heavily in EV production because of previous government statements. |
All this because of one pissing by election that they barely won. |  |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:30 - Sep 20 with 2522 views | DJR |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:10 - Sep 20 by Dubtractor |
There aren't plans for every house to have 7 recycling bins, but there are (were) very real proposals to improve recycling nationwide that are going to be discarded. Huge amounts of work by probably thousands of people over the last 4 years, and all of it for nothing. |
But 7 recycling bins would have been a way of describing such (sensible) provisions in order to provoke outrage amongst readers of the right wing press. And referring to 7 recycle bins when supposedly repealing the requirement is designed to tap into that outrage. | | | |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:31 - Sep 20 with 2518 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:05 - Sep 20 by Ryorry |
The UK motor industry reps that I’ve heard were all appalled by the apparent reversals, saying they’ve already invested heavily in EV production because of previous government statements. |
Exactly. That doesn’t contradict what I’ve said - they are simply trying to protect their investments rather than any genuine concerns over environmental protections. | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:35 - Sep 20 with 2503 views | DJR |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:19 - Sep 20 by DanTheMan |
All this because of one pissing by election that they barely won. |
But I don't think the Labour reaction to the defeat, including dissing Sadiq Khan, helped because it played into Tory hands, and gave undue prominence to the issue.
Far better to have blamed the defeat on the fact that Brunel University, with a large student population more likely to vote Labour, was on holiday. | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:41 - Sep 20 with 2484 views | itfc48 |
I think an alternative fuel source will be found in any case. Can't see electric cars being scalable on a worldwide basis for a few reasons:
- There'd be a battery shortage
- Many people won't be able to have personal charging points. A lot of new builds either have garages away from the house without power or no drive way.
- The cars and replacement batteries are in no way affordable for low-income families.
- Current government guidelines state that due to fire risk, damaged EVs awaiting repair should be stored in an outside quarantine area, at a safe distance of 15 metres from other nearby objects. Most garages won't have the capacity for this. | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:45 - Sep 20 with 2470 views | Ryorry |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:11 - Sep 20 by DJR |
This the latest from the Guardian.
A spokesperson for Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) said:
JLR is investing £15 billion over the next five years to electrify our luxury brands, which is key to JLR reaching net zero carbon emissions across our supply chain, products and operations by 2039.
Our plans are on track and we welcome certainty around legislation for the end of sale of petrol and diesel powered cars.
A spokesperson for BMW, which owns the Mini brand, said:
Mini has already announced that it will become a purely electric brand from 2030 globally and this will not change.
The former Aston Martin boss Andy Palmer told Radio 4’s World At One:
The industry is already determined that we’re going to have electric cars.
And countries like the US are protecting their industry, whereas countries like China are projecting their industry. And the real risk here is that by not having an aggressive strategy, we’re just opening the door to basically Chinese sales.
Ian Plummer, commercial director at online vehicle marketplace Auto Trader, said:
Pushing back the 2030 ban on new petrol and diesel sales by five years is a hugely retrograde step which puts politics ahead of net zero goals.
This U-turn will cause a huge headache for manufacturers, who are crying out for clarity and consistency, and it is hardly going to encourage the vast majority of drivers who are yet to buy an electric car to make the switch.
And Steve Gooding, director of motoring research at the charity RAC Foundation, said:
With the car industry confident about its ability to make the switch away from pure petrol and diesel engines by 2030 whilst still meeting the appetite of the UK market for new cars, it is hard to see why anyone in No 10 thinks now is a good moment to row back. |
That was it exactly, as per BBC World at One, thanks for stating in full. I'm mostly posting from flat out on sofa last couple of weeks - crocked my back again, so brevity is key for me! | |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:48 - Sep 20 with 2460 views | J2BLUE |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:31 - Sep 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Exactly. That doesn’t contradict what I’ve said - they are simply trying to protect their investments rather than any genuine concerns over environmental protections. |
Does it matter? The end result is the same |  |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 16:19 - Sep 20 with 2376 views | monkeymagic |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:41 - Sep 20 by itfc48 |
I think an alternative fuel source will be found in any case. Can't see electric cars being scalable on a worldwide basis for a few reasons:
- There'd be a battery shortage
- Many people won't be able to have personal charging points. A lot of new builds either have garages away from the house without power or no drive way.
- The cars and replacement batteries are in no way affordable for low-income families.
- Current government guidelines state that due to fire risk, damaged EVs awaiting repair should be stored in an outside quarantine area, at a safe distance of 15 metres from other nearby objects. Most garages won't have the capacity for this. |
I suspect you’re right. I think EV might be a “short term” alternative to petrol/diesel untilan efficient and cost effective method of making hydrogen powered vehicles is developed. | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 16:23 - Sep 20 with 2365 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:41 - Sep 20 by itfc48 |
I think an alternative fuel source will be found in any case. Can't see electric cars being scalable on a worldwide basis for a few reasons:
- There'd be a battery shortage
- Many people won't be able to have personal charging points. A lot of new builds either have garages away from the house without power or no drive way.
- The cars and replacement batteries are in no way affordable for low-income families.
- Current government guidelines state that due to fire risk, damaged EVs awaiting repair should be stored in an outside quarantine area, at a safe distance of 15 metres from other nearby objects. Most garages won't have the capacity for this. |
Furthermore the time scale to move away from being allowed to install gas/oil heating is laughable given the state of our housing stock. |  |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 17:18 - Sep 20 with 2282 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:48 - Sep 20 by J2BLUE |
Does it matter? The end result is the same |
What is the end result?
Another CEO probably looking for more Govt subsidies, they’ve already offshored a lot of their UK manufacturing. Pushing the UK ICE ban back only matters from an environmental perspective. From a business perspective the UK is a small market and the move only puts us in line with the EU which has watered down their 2035 commitment after lobbying from the German OEMs. | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 17:22 - Sep 20 with 2276 views | factual_blue |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:17 - Sep 20 by TractorBrew |
A total shambles, and I am not quite sure what vote they are trying to win with this. The recycling / bin collection thing was actually a reasonable idea - the difference between councils is ridiculous, and drives a totally inefficient system.
Are they aiming for the UK to be known as the 'meh, whatevs' nation? We seem to stand for or lead anything anymore. I thought Brexit was about empowering us to be great again? |
it's about appealing to the daily mail demographic. |  |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 17:44 - Sep 20 with 2110 views | Ryorry |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 17:22 - Sep 20 by factual_blue |
it's about appealing to the daily mail demographic. |
Exactly.
General Election within the next year & desperately trying to cling on to power in order to further line their own pockets is all they care about. Short-termism has never been so ridiculous - or dangerous - for us all (including themselves, their kids, grandkids & greats, but they appear too uncaring, tunnel-visioned or wilfully blind to see even that). | |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 17:49 - Sep 20 with 2097 views | BloomBlue |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 13:52 - Sep 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“Said a spokesman from UK motor industry just now. Opens the door for other countries that are more environmentally conscious & progressive. ”
The investment point I agree - I’m fairly sure you are wrong about motor industry ’concerns’ (environmentally conscious & progressive). This is an industry that tested emissions on animals, and lied and manipulated emissions testing. They were dragged into the electric era, and lobbying hard in Germany to kick the EU ban on ICE down the road. They want financial (govt subsidies) and regulatory stability.
The electric mini is being built in the UK largely due to Govt incentives, and also as a result of western firms (not only in the motor industry) increasingly pulling back from China due to state interference in their operations and concerns about their IP. |
The car industry in the UK and EU have a bigger problem to worry about, and that is the manufacturing of EV cars in China. The EU is already panicking and looking at potentially putting tariffs on EV cars from China. Hiding behind some lies about state aid to Chinese car manufacturers, ignoring the fact that every car manufacturer in the EU & UK has received state aid at some stage.
The trouble with EV is that it's a lot easier to produce a car than it was with ICE cars. The production costs in China are so much lower than the EU.
Many EU (and US) car manufacturers already have factories in China. Companies like VW have invested in Chinese battery companies.
By the time we get to 2030 80-90% of all car production will be based in China. |  | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 17:52 - Sep 20 with 2080 views | Kievthegreat |
Sunak showing he understands business as well as Liz Truss. The automotive industry has been planning huge investments, he should know as he's agreed the subsidies and infrastructure investment, based on established government policy. These are huge decisions planned out for the next decade. Boris may have said "f##k business", but it's Liz and Sunak who are pulling their pants down and doing the deed. |  | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 19:53 - Sep 20 with 1940 views | Perublue |
Sadly whatever WE do is a drop in the ocean an to late … for every bottle recycled in the UK there’s a billion more tossed in the Ganges… or insert whichever river you choose outside Europe and while we scrimp and save and stop using some form of energy 150 countries use even more as their populations thrive under no rules. |  |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 21:05 - Sep 20 with 1873 views | DJR |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:35 - Sep 20 by DJR |
But I don't think the Labour reaction to the defeat, including dissing Sadiq Khan, helped because it played into Tory hands, and gave undue prominence to the issue.
Far better to have blamed the defeat on the fact that Brunel University, with a large student population more likely to vote Labour, was on holiday. |
And according to this, it looks like Labour won't reject all of Sunak's proposed changes.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/20/sunak-u-turn-on-green-policies- | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 22:11 - Sep 20 with 1800 views | Pendejo |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 15:41 - Sep 20 by itfc48 |
I think an alternative fuel source will be found in any case. Can't see electric cars being scalable on a worldwide basis for a few reasons:
- There'd be a battery shortage
- Many people won't be able to have personal charging points. A lot of new builds either have garages away from the house without power or no drive way.
- The cars and replacement batteries are in no way affordable for low-income families.
- Current government guidelines state that due to fire risk, damaged EVs awaiting repair should be stored in an outside quarantine area, at a safe distance of 15 metres from other nearby objects. Most garages won't have the capacity for this. |
Read up on E Fuels
Non fossil fuel version of petrol, existing forecourt network and engines can be converted, however, motor manufacturers not interested due to level of investment in EV.
As I understand it E Fueis will be more environmentally friendly... |  |
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| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 12:01 - Sep 21 with 1609 views | TractorBrew |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 22:11 - Sep 20 by Pendejo |
Read up on E Fuels
Non fossil fuel version of petrol, existing forecourt network and engines can be converted, however, motor manufacturers not interested due to level of investment in EV.
As I understand it E Fueis will be more environmentally friendly... |
E fuels could work, but there is still a lot of resource that goes in to making them. Same goes for Hydrogen. 2 things that I always say when people state "EV isn't the answer"...
1 - No, EV isn't the sole answer. The actual is a mix of fuel types. Electric - great for short, non range limited. Hydrogen - long distance, haulage etc. I did read an article with a good depiction of this mapping, but this one is close enough
https://www.advent.energy/2020/10/21/hydrogen-efuels-evs-transportation/
2 - Most emissions come from making cars, so actually breaking the system of "I need a new car every 3 years" is vital. Cars last a crazy amount longer than before, and the enhancements in core tech are slowing (or in some cases, making cars worse as anyone with lane keep assist will tell you) | | | |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 12:18 - Sep 21 with 1575 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| “Who wants to invest in a country that keeps changing its policies?” on 12:01 - Sep 21 by TractorBrew |
E fuels could work, but there is still a lot of resource that goes in to making them. Same goes for Hydrogen. 2 things that I always say when people state "EV isn't the answer"...
1 - No, EV isn't the sole answer. The actual is a mix of fuel types. Electric - great for short, non range limited. Hydrogen - long distance, haulage etc. I did read an article with a good depiction of this mapping, but this one is close enough
https://www.advent.energy/2020/10/21/hydrogen-efuels-evs-transportation/
2 - Most emissions come from making cars, so actually breaking the system of "I need a new car every 3 years" is vital. Cars last a crazy amount longer than before, and the enhancements in core tech are slowing (or in some cases, making cars worse as anyone with lane keep assist will tell you) |
“Most emissions come from making cars, so actually breaking the system of "I need a new car every 3 years" is vital. Cars last a crazy amount longer than before”
You raise a good point here - and this is another industry stitch up. I wanted to buy my last car at the end of the deal. However they intentionally quote ridiculous prices so that it is materially cheaper to get a new one (and without all the wear and tear). Then it just ends up being auctioned off somewhere for a fraction of the price and they get to sell a new car! | | | |
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