Forum | I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why by NthQldITFC

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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why 13:07 - Sep 29 with 1580 views

the fk are we still obsessed with 'growth'. It's like feeding the cancer that's killing you.

‘Green growth’ doesn’t exist – less of everything is the only way to avert catastrophe

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/29/green-growth-economic-acti

Monbiot is so right about how we tend to compartmentalise issues and think "Oh, we can fix that by doing this and so everything is OK." and either ignorantly or conveniently not looking at the linked issues which are affected by the same root causes but not fixed by our targeted intervention for the first issue. Until they creep up on you and kill you, and all you can say is "Why weren't we told?"

'The various impacts have a common cause: the sheer volume of economic activity. We are doing too much of almost everything, and the world’s living systems cannot bear it.'

We w**k ourselves off about growth and GDP and building and sales and imports and exports balanced by a bit of recycling and a few windmills and all the time we're fkn killing the future.

We all know this.

	# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 13:25 - Sep 29 with 1518 views

Plums

Yep, that's about the sum of it.

We've all had a good old slug of the Kool-Aid to the point where we believe the economy and its 'growth' is something we must serve (see austerity), rather than being something which exists to serve us.

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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 13:33 - Sep 29 with 1498 views

Darth_Koont

Indeed.

We’re clearly getting to the end of the road with neoliberalism and its central tenets like the need for growth. It’s a dead-end/cliff edge for the environment and increasingly for human beings too as we see rising inequality and unhappiness throughout the developed world. Growth clearly has a part to play in developing economies but we need to avoid passing on the pitfalls of excess consumption that quickly start to undo the positives.

We seem to be at a turning point that might take us into an Age of Wisdom and all that comes from doing the best for people and the planet using evidence and science. Or an Age of Selfish Ignorance where we blindly stumble over the cliff edge because we’re incapable of change and/or seeing a life beyond our own selfish and short-term needs.

Pronouns: He/Him

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 13:34 - Sep 29 with 1498 views

Herbivore

We should have listened to Marx.

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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 15:24 - Sep 29 with 1379 views

HotShotHamish

If the population grows then the economy must grow with it, unless you really do want the human race to go backwards.
Not wanting growth is far easier to say in an advanced western democracy but how would that leave the devloping world?

Stripping out the politics - which I know is impossible for a lot of you - the economic growth seen in this countyr in the past 100 years has seen living standards and life expectancy to increase dramatically. Unless you want the opposite of this the how would it all be funded?

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 15:40 - Sep 29 with 1353 views

SuperKieranMcKenna

Growth is not just ‘buying stuff’ either. The public sector accounts for almost half the UK’s GDP, with rapid population growth we need it to expand just to stand still. The NHS accounts for over 4pc of UK emissions alone, creating 10s of thousands of tonnes a waste every week.

The point being, it’s very fashionable to point to capitalism as the cause of the damage we are causing but governments can’t be trusted to do better. Over half of oil and gas production comes from state owned companies, and the worst ecological disaster in history happened under an anti capitalist ideology.

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 15:51 - Sep 29 with 1347 views

Herbivore

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 15:40 - Sep 29 by SuperKieranMcKenna

It's weird that you see governments as being something to be held up in contrast to capitalism when in fact in most of the world (almost all in fact) they operate within and advance the interests of a capitalist system.

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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 18:01 - Sep 29 with 1274 views

NthQldITFC

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 15:24 - Sep 29 by HotShotHamish

When you say '...unless you really do want the human race to go backwards' you illustrate perfectly the problem.

People like you (apologies for the assumption and lazy characterisation) just cannot get to grips with the idea that reducing economic activity - reducing consumption of the Earth's resources and ability to absorb human waste products - is not 'going backwards', it is about finding a way to survive.

You seem to be absolutely hardwired to think (again, sorry) that having more things and using more energy is good and must be the way forward for everybody. It's like some sort of crazy, suicidal religious sect.

The obscene 'wealth' (or more relevant, the obscene economic throughput) of the richest end of world society is what needs to be massively curtailed, and a global (as well as local) redistribution of sustainable levels of wealth is morally necessary, and might stave off the societal collapse which will bring down the wealthy as well as the poor.

'Going backwards' is what will happen when climate breakdown and societal breakdown really kick in.

'Going forwards' in the view of any sane, right-thinking individual ought to be about the whole of humanity living in a much, much more balanced way with itself, and with nature.

	# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Poll:	It's driving me nuts

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 18:05 - Sep 29 with 1265 views

noggin

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 13:34 - Sep 29 by Herbivore
We should have listened to Marx.

Or even Corbyn

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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 18:22 - Sep 29 with 1232 views

solemio

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 13:34 - Sep 29 by Herbivore
We should have listened to Marx.

Old Groucho knew a thing or two about economic growth.

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 19:28 - Sep 29 with 1200 views

NthQldITFC

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 18:22 - Sep 29 by solemio
Old Groucho knew a thing or two about economic growth.

"There's no duck behind this economic system."

	# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 20:02 - Sep 29 with 1161 views

StevieH

You'd probably enjoy 'Doughnut Economics' by Kate Raworth

You can listen to a good podcast interview with her on The rest is politics - leading

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 20:11 - Sep 29 with 1155 views

NthQldITFC

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 20:02 - Sep 29 by StevieH
You'd probably enjoy 'Doughnut Economics' by Kate Raworth You can listen to a good podcast interview with her on The rest is politics - leading

Indeed. She presents good principles on the constrainsts within which the system has to work. What I'd like to see is a basic, numeric, semi-authoritative model of a working world economic system constrained by the doughnut. (I think any economic model can only really be basic and semi-authoritative anyway, can it not?)

Something you can play around with on a computer, but crucially something which isn't tainted by the sort of backward-thinking and entrenched preconceptions that the status-quo, business as usual folk like to try to persuade us are the immutable facts of life.

	# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Poll:	It's driving me nuts

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 20:31 - Sep 29 with 1133 views

BanksterDebtSlave

Yeah but agrarian revolution @narchists are stoopid or something.....listen to the 'grown ups!'

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I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 20:35 - Sep 29 with 1121 views

BanksterDebtSlave

I know it's an old article, but it is just so to the point, and obvious and why on 15:24 - Sep 29 by HotShotHamish

So how are those life expectancy stats going for you now?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/05/cancer-cases-in-under-50s-worldw

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