| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:15 - Mar 14 with 1383 views | eireblue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 12:58 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I guess we know what kind of person you are: a weasel who tries to insinuate things about the character of other people.
Do you know the concept of 4D chess? The clever part is not the racist comment, it's predicting the reaction and saying the racist thing even if you don't believe it, in a Machiavellian way.
Anyway, clever doesn't mean good.
You have to ask why is Dianne Abbott the most abused MP in Parliament, and the answer is not just her race, there are other black women in Parliament, after all. She could well be the biggest moron in the whole of Parliament (I don't follow closely enough to know for sure).
A lot of uneducated people will be selectively racist. For example, they wouldn't say something racist about a black player on their favourite football team, but they might say something about the black player that just scored against their team. Those people have to reevaluate their thinking, but I don't want our society to dogpile on them and not do anything to change their mind.
Race is such a touchy subject, but racism is just a form of mental association. If you only encounter inbred and dumb Norwich supporters, you will have the impression that all Norwich supporters are inbred and dumb.
If he said that Liz Truss is so awful that it makes you want to hate all Norwich supporters, you might even laugh. So whilst I don't think it was wise for the donor to make that comment, I can see that he might have just been trying to be funny and obviously, it has blown up in his face. |
I followed this thread closely enough to have an opinion on contender for the biggest moron participating. |  | |  |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:17 - Mar 14 with 1379 views | Europablue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 11:42 - Mar 14 by Herbivore |
I'll file you under the category of massive bellend. |
I'll file you under disingenuous and rude.
You might like your echo chamber, but there are some people on here who will have something more constructive to say than generic insults. |  | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:20 - Mar 14 with 1342 views | Herbivore |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:17 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I'll file you under disingenuous and rude.
You might like your echo chamber, but there are some people on here who will have something more constructive to say than generic insults. |
You have nothing constructive to say. I can insult you less generically if you'd prefer. |  |
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:21 - Mar 14 with 1326 views | DJR |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:11 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I share the view that Dianne Abbott is not intelligent and spouts a lot of nonsense. I don't believe that has anything to do with her race.
What I'm concerned about is that the younger generation is ready to throw people to the wolves, and I believe in rehabilitation. I just think imagine if your father or grandfather said something like this. Would you judge them only by that remark, or would you be more charitable? Without rehabilitation, we just grow resentment.
Look up Daryl Davis, he's well-known for engaging with KKK members and convincing them to leave and denounce the KKK. That is the kind of action that makes a positive change. |
Diane Abbott is intelligent because she went to Cambridge University in the 1970s when there would have been very few black women studying there.
But the right wing press (in my view for racist and political reasons) has managed to persuade many people (including you) that she is not intelligent. This in turn has led to her receiving more abuse (much of it racist) than probably any other MP.
As it is, she has had health issues in recent years which on occasions may have affected her performance, but that does not make her unintelligent. [Post edited 14 Mar 13:22]
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:26 - Mar 14 with 1292 views | DJR |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 12:28 - Mar 14 by DJR |
More evidence of spinelessness. This from the Guardian.
"Keir Starmer normally takes questions from journalists at events like this, but he did not today. That is probably because he was not keen to talk about Diane Abbott’s article in the Guardian today. In it Abbott does not just criticise the Conservative party, in relation to the Frank Hester controversy, but also Labour." |
Yet more evidence of spinelessness, this in connection with the Gove speech on extremism.
"Gove is responding to Rayner. He welcomes the constructive tone of her comments."
It's as if both parties don't want to offend those inclined to vote for Reform because they want their vote.
"I'm not a racist but...." [Post edited 14 Mar 13:28]
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:34 - Mar 14 with 1264 views | leitrimblue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:11 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I share the view that Dianne Abbott is not intelligent and spouts a lot of nonsense. I don't believe that has anything to do with her race.
What I'm concerned about is that the younger generation is ready to throw people to the wolves, and I believe in rehabilitation. I just think imagine if your father or grandfather said something like this. Would you judge them only by that remark, or would you be more charitable? Without rehabilitation, we just grow resentment.
Look up Daryl Davis, he's well-known for engaging with KKK members and convincing them to leave and denounce the KKK. That is the kind of action that makes a positive change. |
I imagine a working class black women who acquired a degree from Cambridge in the 1970,s would probably do very well up against yerself in an intelligence contest.
My father wouldn't say anything so feck1n stupid and he's no academic. He's just not a racist.. |  | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:35 - Mar 14 with 1264 views | Europablue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:20 - Mar 14 by Herbivore |
You have nothing constructive to say. I can insult you less generically if you'd prefer. |
Your approach does not elicit a constructive response. Other people on this thread have engaged constructively, so I am engaging with them. | | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:35 - Mar 14 with 1261 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 12:58 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I guess we know what kind of person you are: a weasel who tries to insinuate things about the character of other people.
Do you know the concept of 4D chess? The clever part is not the racist comment, it's predicting the reaction and saying the racist thing even if you don't believe it, in a Machiavellian way.
Anyway, clever doesn't mean good.
You have to ask why is Dianne Abbott the most abused MP in Parliament, and the answer is not just her race, there are other black women in Parliament, after all. She could well be the biggest moron in the whole of Parliament (I don't follow closely enough to know for sure).
A lot of uneducated people will be selectively racist. For example, they wouldn't say something racist about a black player on their favourite football team, but they might say something about the black player that just scored against their team. Those people have to reevaluate their thinking, but I don't want our society to dogpile on them and not do anything to change their mind.
Race is such a touchy subject, but racism is just a form of mental association. If you only encounter inbred and dumb Norwich supporters, you will have the impression that all Norwich supporters are inbred and dumb.
If he said that Liz Truss is so awful that it makes you want to hate all Norwich supporters, you might even laugh. So whilst I don't think it was wise for the donor to make that comment, I can see that he might have just been trying to be funny and obviously, it has blown up in his face. |
What a disgusting comment. I have absolutely no time for Diane Abbott's politics or some of her views, but she is the most abused MP in the commons purely because she is a woman of colour. She is both the first black woman elected to parliament and the longest-serving black MP, and has had decades of vile racist abuse.
Edit. And the person you are arguing the toss over semantics regarding racism is himself of mixed race, so you are on very dodgy ground. [Post edited 14 Mar 13:39]
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:46 - Mar 14 with 1198 views | Europablue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:21 - Mar 14 by DJR |
Diane Abbott is intelligent because she went to Cambridge University in the 1970s when there would have been very few black women studying there.
But the right wing press (in my view for racist and political reasons) has managed to persuade many people (including you) that she is not intelligent. This in turn has led to her receiving more abuse (much of it racist) than probably any other MP.
As it is, she has had health issues in recent years which on occasions may have affected her performance, but that does not make her unintelligent. [Post edited 14 Mar 13:22]
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I don't know if the left-wing press has an influence on you the way you assume the right-wing press has had an influence on me.
I don't have an in-depth knowledge of her life and background, my impression of her is mostly from seeing her TV performances (I used to watch the daily politics show with her and Michael Portillo). She seems like she is nice enough to people who she agrees with, but the things she says and her takes on politics give me the impression that she is not very bright.
I used to only read the BBC news website for years, until I got sick of the bias and pushing of an agenda. My dad gave me a free code for the Telegraph and I got sick of the bias and the engagement baiting that they do by posting articles with inflammatory headlines.
Now I'm less engaged with professional journalism because they are very selective with the information they provide you. The typical example is "X said something racist" but they never let you judge the words for yourself. They just assume their audiences are idiots, and I suppose we are because we are probably all guilty of being emotionally manipulated by things we hear in the news. | | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:46 - Mar 14 with 1195 views | MattinLondon |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 12:58 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I guess we know what kind of person you are: a weasel who tries to insinuate things about the character of other people.
Do you know the concept of 4D chess? The clever part is not the racist comment, it's predicting the reaction and saying the racist thing even if you don't believe it, in a Machiavellian way.
Anyway, clever doesn't mean good.
You have to ask why is Dianne Abbott the most abused MP in Parliament, and the answer is not just her race, there are other black women in Parliament, after all. She could well be the biggest moron in the whole of Parliament (I don't follow closely enough to know for sure).
A lot of uneducated people will be selectively racist. For example, they wouldn't say something racist about a black player on their favourite football team, but they might say something about the black player that just scored against their team. Those people have to reevaluate their thinking, but I don't want our society to dogpile on them and not do anything to change their mind.
Race is such a touchy subject, but racism is just a form of mental association. If you only encounter inbred and dumb Norwich supporters, you will have the impression that all Norwich supporters are inbred and dumb.
If he said that Liz Truss is so awful that it makes you want to hate all Norwich supporters, you might even laugh. So whilst I don't think it was wise for the donor to make that comment, I can see that he might have just been trying to be funny and obviously, it has blown up in his face. |
Do you want the long reply first or the much shorter one first? Ok, let’s go with the longer one.
Firstly I never insinuated anything. It was never my intent to ‘suggest’ or ‘hint’ at anything about either your character or that particular donor to the Tory Donor. I thought that I was quite clear that you are both bell ends. No insinuation sought just a clear cut answer. I might well edit one of my posts on this thread to clarify that.
4D Chess? So you’re saying that there was some sort of stratagem going on here? The Tories were moves ahead, in such a multi-layered sophisticated way that their ultimate aim was to cause Starmer some embarrassment so that he felt forced to take back Abbott? An MP, who has been forgotten about my most people and journalists? Are you aware of ‘clutching at straws?
Why is Dianne Abbott the most abused MP..and the answer is not just her race. Well it is isn’t it? And she certainly isn’t a moron. She’s quite impressive really. Born to working class parents and going to Cambridge during the late 70s. That is very impressive really.
1 You can’t be selectively racist. If someone is racist than they are racist, full stop.
2 I’m all for dogpiling on football fans who think it’s ok to racially abuse opposition players.
3 Racism is a form of being a prick.
4 .The ramblings about Norwich fans is rubbish.
5. He might well have been trying to be funny - funny as in racist funny though.
The short answer is that you’re a massive bell end. |  | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:54 - Mar 14 with 1138 views | leitrimblue |
I'm happy to say Labour would also seem to have some unscrupulous backers as well.
All they now need is those backers to start spoutung abhorrent racist nonsense and 50% of its party membership to admit to racist and xenophobic views and then they would be just as bad. | | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 14:13 - Mar 14 with 1073 views | DJR |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:46 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I don't know if the left-wing press has an influence on you the way you assume the right-wing press has had an influence on me.
I don't have an in-depth knowledge of her life and background, my impression of her is mostly from seeing her TV performances (I used to watch the daily politics show with her and Michael Portillo). She seems like she is nice enough to people who she agrees with, but the things she says and her takes on politics give me the impression that she is not very bright.
I used to only read the BBC news website for years, until I got sick of the bias and pushing of an agenda. My dad gave me a free code for the Telegraph and I got sick of the bias and the engagement baiting that they do by posting articles with inflammatory headlines.
Now I'm less engaged with professional journalism because they are very selective with the information they provide you. The typical example is "X said something racist" but they never let you judge the words for yourself. They just assume their audiences are idiots, and I suppose we are because we are probably all guilty of being emotionally manipulated by things we hear in the news. |
My politics have nothing to do with the left wing press (not that there's much of it), but I do like to get the bottom of things and never take things at face value, whatever the source.
As you will see, I have been critical of Labour on this thread, as well as the Tories, and I agree with you about words often being taken out of context.
One example which springs to mind is Andy McDonald, suspended by the Labour Party for antisemitism a few months ago, having said the following, because it contained the words "between the river and the sea" which were all that were reported.
“We won’t rest until we have justice, until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea can live in peaceful liberty.”
It would be a Kafkaesque world if he were permanently suspended for saying that, and I am glad to see common sense has prevailed and his suspension was lifted yesterday. But the mud will have stuck. [Post edited 14 Mar 14:31]
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 14:18 - Mar 14 with 1055 views | StokieBlue |
You've posted 3 times in 2024 and each post was to defend the Tories or to have a pop at someone complaining about the Tories.
If one goes back further it seems that all your posts are defending the Tories.
Must be a full time job, I can see why you've only had time for 3 posts on here this year.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 14:52 - Mar 14 with 977 views | Europablue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:46 - Mar 14 by MattinLondon |
Do you want the long reply first or the much shorter one first? Ok, let’s go with the longer one.
Firstly I never insinuated anything. It was never my intent to ‘suggest’ or ‘hint’ at anything about either your character or that particular donor to the Tory Donor. I thought that I was quite clear that you are both bell ends. No insinuation sought just a clear cut answer. I might well edit one of my posts on this thread to clarify that.
4D Chess? So you’re saying that there was some sort of stratagem going on here? The Tories were moves ahead, in such a multi-layered sophisticated way that their ultimate aim was to cause Starmer some embarrassment so that he felt forced to take back Abbott? An MP, who has been forgotten about my most people and journalists? Are you aware of ‘clutching at straws?
Why is Dianne Abbott the most abused MP..and the answer is not just her race. Well it is isn’t it? And she certainly isn’t a moron. She’s quite impressive really. Born to working class parents and going to Cambridge during the late 70s. That is very impressive really.
1 You can’t be selectively racist. If someone is racist than they are racist, full stop.
2 I’m all for dogpiling on football fans who think it’s ok to racially abuse opposition players.
3 Racism is a form of being a prick.
4 .The ramblings about Norwich fans is rubbish.
5. He might well have been trying to be funny - funny as in racist funny though.
The short answer is that you’re a massive bell end. |
I'm going to ignore your childish insults and try and respond without lowering the tone of the discussion. I guess I shouldn't engage at all, but I will against my better judgment.
I don't know anything about that Tory donor. I'm not interested enough to look into it, I will accept your appraisal of him, although I doubt you know enough about him to know what he feels in his heart.
Mentioning 4D chess was a joke, because that is what Trump supporters often say when he does something dumb that upsets his opposition into overacting and making a bad move. I accept that the tone was not obvious about what I said. The way you react uncharitably to my comments says something about you. I don't have any malice against people on the internet, I just try and remember that I could be talking to a 13 year old boy who is just trying to troll me. Getting angry is what those kind of trolls want.
I'm not denying that for some people Dianne Abbott's race is a contributing factor for the abuse, but the trigger is what she says then wrongly race becomes a factor of that abuse. I am sure that she gets horrific racial abuse and whilst I have experienced quite significant racial abuse, I didn't grow up having to deal with that. It is very damaging to suffer racial abuse while you are still building up your sense of self. Kemi Badenoch is also a black MP and she isn't the most abused MP. If race were the only factor they would get equal abuse.
With the internet and society in general, you can't judge the majority by the actions of a few extreme people.
1. I kind of agree with in that I believe clumsy words do not make you racist, it is the racist intent and hatred in your heart. However, not all people hold the same view of what racism is. There are some people who say that all white people are inherently racist (that is a racist comment in of itself). Everyone is discriminatory even if it's in a positive way (for example, I have a positive view of Indian people because I happen to know some nice Indian people, but obviously not all Indian people are nice).
2. You just brought this up from nowhere, but yes I would push back on people, but rather than a punishment like stadium bans, I rather see them having the option to do community service and interact with people of other races, because that is how you change hearts.
3. Yes, what's your point here?
4. Maybe so, but the point I was trying to make stands. This is a quote from Dianne Abbott wrote about travellers and Jews: "They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice, But they are not all their lives subject to racism." I would say that the abuse that red heads get is because British (English) society is deeply racist against Irish people, people don't like travellers because of their behaviour, but also that behaviour triggers racist responses, which we shouldn't accept.
If we are going to have an equal society, we have to not accept racism towards any race and that includes against white people too.
5. I don't pretend to know what's in that man's heart. What he said was racist, I don't know him, so I can't judge whether he is racist. I can see how an edgelord who is not racist might make that kind of edgy joke to trigger people, so I can see that he may also not be racist. | | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 15:08 - Mar 14 with 931 views | BlueBadger |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 11:21 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
It was kind of a clever move from the Tories, now Labour are facing calls to reinstate Dianne Abbott, who is a complete moron. |
What is it you like best best about the Tories, the bigotry the incompetence, the corruption or the criminality? |  |
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 15:15 - Mar 14 with 910 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 14:52 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I'm going to ignore your childish insults and try and respond without lowering the tone of the discussion. I guess I shouldn't engage at all, but I will against my better judgment.
I don't know anything about that Tory donor. I'm not interested enough to look into it, I will accept your appraisal of him, although I doubt you know enough about him to know what he feels in his heart.
Mentioning 4D chess was a joke, because that is what Trump supporters often say when he does something dumb that upsets his opposition into overacting and making a bad move. I accept that the tone was not obvious about what I said. The way you react uncharitably to my comments says something about you. I don't have any malice against people on the internet, I just try and remember that I could be talking to a 13 year old boy who is just trying to troll me. Getting angry is what those kind of trolls want.
I'm not denying that for some people Dianne Abbott's race is a contributing factor for the abuse, but the trigger is what she says then wrongly race becomes a factor of that abuse. I am sure that she gets horrific racial abuse and whilst I have experienced quite significant racial abuse, I didn't grow up having to deal with that. It is very damaging to suffer racial abuse while you are still building up your sense of self. Kemi Badenoch is also a black MP and she isn't the most abused MP. If race were the only factor they would get equal abuse.
With the internet and society in general, you can't judge the majority by the actions of a few extreme people.
1. I kind of agree with in that I believe clumsy words do not make you racist, it is the racist intent and hatred in your heart. However, not all people hold the same view of what racism is. There are some people who say that all white people are inherently racist (that is a racist comment in of itself). Everyone is discriminatory even if it's in a positive way (for example, I have a positive view of Indian people because I happen to know some nice Indian people, but obviously not all Indian people are nice).
2. You just brought this up from nowhere, but yes I would push back on people, but rather than a punishment like stadium bans, I rather see them having the option to do community service and interact with people of other races, because that is how you change hearts.
3. Yes, what's your point here?
4. Maybe so, but the point I was trying to make stands. This is a quote from Dianne Abbott wrote about travellers and Jews: "They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice, But they are not all their lives subject to racism." I would say that the abuse that red heads get is because British (English) society is deeply racist against Irish people, people don't like travellers because of their behaviour, but also that behaviour triggers racist responses, which we shouldn't accept.
If we are going to have an equal society, we have to not accept racism towards any race and that includes against white people too.
5. I don't pretend to know what's in that man's heart. What he said was racist, I don't know him, so I can't judge whether he is racist. I can see how an edgelord who is not racist might make that kind of edgy joke to trigger people, so I can see that he may also not be racist. |
The suggestions that redheads get grief because English people are racist towards the irish are two of the most stupid things i have ever read on here. | | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 15:23 - Mar 14 with 883 views | Herbivore |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 14:52 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I'm going to ignore your childish insults and try and respond without lowering the tone of the discussion. I guess I shouldn't engage at all, but I will against my better judgment.
I don't know anything about that Tory donor. I'm not interested enough to look into it, I will accept your appraisal of him, although I doubt you know enough about him to know what he feels in his heart.
Mentioning 4D chess was a joke, because that is what Trump supporters often say when he does something dumb that upsets his opposition into overacting and making a bad move. I accept that the tone was not obvious about what I said. The way you react uncharitably to my comments says something about you. I don't have any malice against people on the internet, I just try and remember that I could be talking to a 13 year old boy who is just trying to troll me. Getting angry is what those kind of trolls want.
I'm not denying that for some people Dianne Abbott's race is a contributing factor for the abuse, but the trigger is what she says then wrongly race becomes a factor of that abuse. I am sure that she gets horrific racial abuse and whilst I have experienced quite significant racial abuse, I didn't grow up having to deal with that. It is very damaging to suffer racial abuse while you are still building up your sense of self. Kemi Badenoch is also a black MP and she isn't the most abused MP. If race were the only factor they would get equal abuse.
With the internet and society in general, you can't judge the majority by the actions of a few extreme people.
1. I kind of agree with in that I believe clumsy words do not make you racist, it is the racist intent and hatred in your heart. However, not all people hold the same view of what racism is. There are some people who say that all white people are inherently racist (that is a racist comment in of itself). Everyone is discriminatory even if it's in a positive way (for example, I have a positive view of Indian people because I happen to know some nice Indian people, but obviously not all Indian people are nice).
2. You just brought this up from nowhere, but yes I would push back on people, but rather than a punishment like stadium bans, I rather see them having the option to do community service and interact with people of other races, because that is how you change hearts.
3. Yes, what's your point here?
4. Maybe so, but the point I was trying to make stands. This is a quote from Dianne Abbott wrote about travellers and Jews: "They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice, But they are not all their lives subject to racism." I would say that the abuse that red heads get is because British (English) society is deeply racist against Irish people, people don't like travellers because of their behaviour, but also that behaviour triggers racist responses, which we shouldn't accept.
If we are going to have an equal society, we have to not accept racism towards any race and that includes against white people too.
5. I don't pretend to know what's in that man's heart. What he said was racist, I don't know him, so I can't judge whether he is racist. I can see how an edgelord who is not racist might make that kind of edgy joke to trigger people, so I can see that he may also not be racist. |
Christ. | |
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 15:45 - Mar 14 with 845 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:54 - Mar 14 by leitrimblue |
I'm happy to say Labour would also seem to have some unscrupulous backers as well.
All they now need is those backers to start spoutung abhorrent racist nonsense and 50% of its party membership to admit to racist and xenophobic views and then they would be just as bad. |
Dale Vince would appear to many as one of such unscrupulous backers, but it's very complicated.
Vince has donated millions to the Labour Party and tens of thousands to Starmer himself.
The Jerusalem Post says that "Green energy industrialist Dale Vince has been using his English soccer club (Forest Green) as a means to promote his anti-Israel agenda and calls him an anti-Zionist:
Who is Dale Vince, the anti-Zionist owner of the 'world's greenest football club'?
https://www.jpost.com/bds-threat/article-705168
Despite the JP identifying Vince as an anti-Zionist with an anti Israel agenda it holds short of accusing him of antisemitism. I guess that's why the Labour Party Keir Starmer is happy to take Vince's donations because he's not antisemitic.
Or is he? There are some contributors to this forum who insist that although you can be critical of Israel without being antisemitic, anti-Zionism is a form of antisemitism. Benjamin Netanyahu also says that anti-Zionism is a form of antisemitism, but it seems he's cool with Labour Friends of Israel member Starmer taking donations from people he deems antisemitic.
It's very complicated isn't it?
I mean antisemitism is a form of racism and I don't think a Labour leader could really be a Friend of Israel if you're taking money from someone who the leader of Israel says is an antisemite.
It seems to me that there are lots of people benefitting from the confusion. Some Zionists are antisemites and other are not - it seems to depend on whether they support (tacitly or otherwise) the occupation of Palestine or not.
But it's more complicated than that. Starmer claims to be a friend to Palestinians too. You can't make this stuff up:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-israel-keir-starmer-palestine-b19601
It seems Starmer has a lot of friends, even ones who hate each other! But it appears the Palestinians are not very impressed with Keir's proclaimed friendship because it's little more than lip service and Israel is quite calm about the Labour Party having a sizeable anti-Zionist donor.
It seems to me like these politicians don't really take racism seriously at all but use it as a political tool which they can beat people with selectively as and when they choose to.
The evidence is clear.
Edited to add emphasis [Post edited 14 Mar 15:50]
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 15:57 - Mar 14 with 791 views | Herbivore |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 15:45 - Mar 14 by ChorleyBoy |
Dale Vince would appear to many as one of such unscrupulous backers, but it's very complicated.
Vince has donated millions to the Labour Party and tens of thousands to Starmer himself.
The Jerusalem Post says that "Green energy industrialist Dale Vince has been using his English soccer club (Forest Green) as a means to promote his anti-Israel agenda and calls him an anti-Zionist:
Who is Dale Vince, the anti-Zionist owner of the 'world's greenest football club'?
https://www.jpost.com/bds-threat/article-705168
Despite the JP identifying Vince as an anti-Zionist with an anti Israel agenda it holds short of accusing him of antisemitism. I guess that's why the Labour Party Keir Starmer is happy to take Vince's donations because he's not antisemitic.
Or is he? There are some contributors to this forum who insist that although you can be critical of Israel without being antisemitic, anti-Zionism is a form of antisemitism. Benjamin Netanyahu also says that anti-Zionism is a form of antisemitism, but it seems he's cool with Labour Friends of Israel member Starmer taking donations from people he deems antisemitic.
It's very complicated isn't it?
I mean antisemitism is a form of racism and I don't think a Labour leader could really be a Friend of Israel if you're taking money from someone who the leader of Israel says is an antisemite.
It seems to me that there are lots of people benefitting from the confusion. Some Zionists are antisemites and other are not - it seems to depend on whether they support (tacitly or otherwise) the occupation of Palestine or not.
But it's more complicated than that. Starmer claims to be a friend to Palestinians too. You can't make this stuff up:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-israel-keir-starmer-palestine-b19601
It seems Starmer has a lot of friends, even ones who hate each other! But it appears the Palestinians are not very impressed with Keir's proclaimed friendship because it's little more than lip service and Israel is quite calm about the Labour Party having a sizeable anti-Zionist donor.
It seems to me like these politicians don't really take racism seriously at all but use it as a political tool which they can beat people with selectively as and when they choose to.
The evidence is clear.
Edited to add emphasis [Post edited 14 Mar 15:50]
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This is an excellent example of both whataboutery and false equivalence. Kudos. | |
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 16:05 - Mar 14 with 768 views | Whos_blue |
But is it anti Tory rhetoric or is it calling out racism?
Are we suggesting that racism is the bastion of the modern Tory party and that to call it out is merely anti Tory rhetoric?
Interesting. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 16:13 - Mar 14 with 745 views | Whos_blue |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 13:11 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I share the view that Dianne Abbott is not intelligent and spouts a lot of nonsense. I don't believe that has anything to do with her race.
What I'm concerned about is that the younger generation is ready to throw people to the wolves, and I believe in rehabilitation. I just think imagine if your father or grandfather said something like this. Would you judge them only by that remark, or would you be more charitable? Without rehabilitation, we just grow resentment.
Look up Daryl Davis, he's well-known for engaging with KKK members and convincing them to leave and denounce the KKK. That is the kind of action that makes a positive change. |
But I don't think many of us here have parents or grandparents who have donated £10m to the tory party.
Accepting a donation of that size comes with responsility and some sort of due dilligence and perhaps a soupcon of moral fibre.
All seemingly missing from the tories. | |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 16:18 - Mar 14 with 728 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 15:57 - Mar 14 by Herbivore |
This is an excellent example of both whataboutery and false equivalence. Kudos. |
hahahahaha, you are sweet.
"whataboutery and false equivalence" - Yet you fail to point out why.
The other day I was accused of appealing to authority to demonstrate truth, yet after asking 3 times to explain why - there was no answer.
I also pointed out that someone had incorrectly attributed a book to a holocaust survivor in order to discredit him yet I received no apology - just silence
And this is how it works here - you can be accused of anything without evidence, because there is none - that's why so many people (like you) do it.
Pick a few argument fallacies from the list and throw liberally at those who constantly expose your own false reasoning, bias or stupidity and smear with insinuations of antisemitism to taste:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Stupid people will be taken in by your accusations. Those that can read, won't be. | | | |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 16:27 - Mar 14 with 691 views | J2BLUE |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 12:58 - Mar 14 by Europablue |
I guess we know what kind of person you are: a weasel who tries to insinuate things about the character of other people.
Do you know the concept of 4D chess? The clever part is not the racist comment, it's predicting the reaction and saying the racist thing even if you don't believe it, in a Machiavellian way.
Anyway, clever doesn't mean good.
You have to ask why is Dianne Abbott the most abused MP in Parliament, and the answer is not just her race, there are other black women in Parliament, after all. She could well be the biggest moron in the whole of Parliament (I don't follow closely enough to know for sure).
A lot of uneducated people will be selectively racist. For example, they wouldn't say something racist about a black player on their favourite football team, but they might say something about the black player that just scored against their team. Those people have to reevaluate their thinking, but I don't want our society to dogpile on them and not do anything to change their mind.
Race is such a touchy subject, but racism is just a form of mental association. If you only encounter inbred and dumb Norwich supporters, you will have the impression that all Norwich supporters are inbred and dumb.
If he said that Liz Truss is so awful that it makes you want to hate all Norwich supporters, you might even laugh. So whilst I don't think it was wise for the donor to make that comment, I can see that he might have just been trying to be funny and obviously, it has blown up in his face. |
Those last two paragraphs...
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| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 16:42 - Mar 14 with 637 views | Herbivore |
| Yeah it was racist and misogynistic….but they want his money, so let’s move on 16:18 - Mar 14 by ChorleyBoy |
hahahahaha, you are sweet.
"whataboutery and false equivalence" - Yet you fail to point out why.
The other day I was accused of appealing to authority to demonstrate truth, yet after asking 3 times to explain why - there was no answer.
I also pointed out that someone had incorrectly attributed a book to a holocaust survivor in order to discredit him yet I received no apology - just silence
And this is how it works here - you can be accused of anything without evidence, because there is none - that's why so many people (like you) do it.
Pick a few argument fallacies from the list and throw liberally at those who constantly expose your own false reasoning, bias or stupidity and smear with insinuations of antisemitism to taste:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Stupid people will be taken in by your accusations. Those that can read, won't be. |
It's whataboutery because you are essentially saying "yeah but what what Starmer taking money from Dale Vince", I thought that was pretty self evident to be honest and that you might be able to get there yourself.
It's false equivalence because you are comparing an unambiguously racist comment by a Tory donor with a view expressed in support of Palestine by a Labour donor. If you read his actual comments in the article you've linked, it takes a significant degree of mental gymnastics (kudos to you for trying to perform moves that Simone Biles would view as too tricky) to suggest that they are racist. That's why it is false equivalence. Again, I thought you might be able to get there yourself but it seems I've overestimated your abilities. | |
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