| The end of free speech in Brussels? on 10:34 - Apr 17 with 2527 views | Steve_M |
Hardly the end of free speech given the conference will go ahead today. Shutting it down was the wrong decision both for its own sake and also because it lets all the attendees have a bit of martyrdom and victimhood. |  |
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| The end of free speech in Brussels? on 10:36 - Apr 17 with 2493 views | NeedhamChris |
| The end of free speech in Brussels? on 10:34 - Apr 17 by Steve_M |
Hardly the end of free speech given the conference will go ahead today. Shutting it down was the wrong decision both for its own sake and also because it lets all the attendees have a bit of martyrdom and victimhood. |
Fair point, I've dialled down the hyperbole and edited the title. |  |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 10:49 - Apr 17 with 2425 views | Meadowlark |
I see that the verb "sitting" is in use by the BBC to describe an MP. Much as they use the verb "serving" to describe a police officer.
Tautological nonsense! |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 10:49 - Apr 17 with 2422 views | Keno |
Two things
if is annoys Nigel Farage its probably a good thing
also since when was trying to save the planet, keep green spaces etc a far right activity |  |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 10:57 - Apr 17 with 2386 views | Steve_M |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 10:49 - Apr 17 by Meadowlark |
I see that the verb "sitting" is in use by the BBC to describe an MP. Much as they use the verb "serving" to describe a police officer.
Tautological nonsense! |
In the latter case though, I suppose it differentiates from those found guilty of criminal misconduct.
Actually does that apply to the former too? | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:03 - Apr 17 with 2365 views | thebooks |
Got nothing against cracking down on fascists gathering tbh. Couldn’t give a fúck what Farage thinks — damage was done by the BBC and everyone legitimising him for 30 years 🤷 |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:17 - Apr 17 with 2329 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:03 - Apr 17 by thebooks |
Got nothing against cracking down on fascists gathering tbh. Couldn’t give a fúck what Farage thinks — damage was done by the BBC and everyone legitimising him for 30 years 🤷 |
No . Its absolutely wrong. Authorities preventing gatherings of people whos views are disagreed with is fascist and dictatorial.
Also an absolute gift to farage and others wanting to stoke culture wars and complain about cancel culture. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:45 - Apr 17 with 2232 views | Zapers |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:03 - Apr 17 by thebooks |
Got nothing against cracking down on fascists gathering tbh. Couldn’t give a fúck what Farage thinks — damage was done by the BBC and everyone legitimising him for 30 years 🤷 |
Oh the irony. | | | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:51 - Apr 17 with 2199 views | NthQldITFC |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 10:57 - Apr 17 by Steve_M |
In the latter case though, I suppose it differentiates from those found guilty of criminal misconduct.
Actually does that apply to the former too? |
serving > serving time |  |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:06 - Apr 17 with 2151 views | Bellevueblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:17 - Apr 17 by redrickstuhaart |
No . Its absolutely wrong. Authorities preventing gatherings of people whos views are disagreed with is fascist and dictatorial.
Also an absolute gift to farage and others wanting to stoke culture wars and complain about cancel culture. |
By that logic it was facist and dictatorial to ban National Action.
There is a fine line between xenophobia and racism. One that Nigel and his ilk trample all over.
Shock horror people don't want a gathering of racists. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:25 - Apr 17 with 2076 views | lowhouseblue |
in terms of threats to free speech and open debate I find this even worse:
https://unherd.com/2024/04/inside-the-disinformation-industry/
in both cases people wielding power are equating disagreement with their own subjective political views with 'harm'. they're just seeking to silence stuff they don't agree with. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:30 - Apr 17 with 2017 views | Blueschev |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:06 - Apr 17 by Bellevueblue |
By that logic it was facist and dictatorial to ban National Action.
There is a fine line between xenophobia and racism. One that Nigel and his ilk trample all over.
Shock horror people don't want a gathering of racists. |
As much as I despise him, comparing Farage to National Action is quite a stretch. |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:40 - Apr 17 with 1930 views | NeedhamChris |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 11:03 - Apr 17 by thebooks |
Got nothing against cracking down on fascists gathering tbh. Couldn’t give a fúck what Farage thinks — damage was done by the BBC and everyone legitimising him for 30 years 🤷 |
How very fascist of you. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:45 - Apr 17 with 1903 views | NeedhamChris |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:25 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
in terms of threats to free speech and open debate I find this even worse:
https://unherd.com/2024/04/inside-the-disinformation-industry/
in both cases people wielding power are equating disagreement with their own subjective political views with 'harm'. they're just seeking to silence stuff they don't agree with. |
Would 100% agree with the point of your last sentence, the line between disagreement and offensiveness has become so blurry now it's dangerous.
I'm a Green Party member on the left of the political spectrum - but I just don't believe in censoring opposing viewpoints however much I disagree with them (unless they're against the law for other reasons).
Also, there's such a basic misunderstanding of what 'far right' is and the term gets banded about to just about anyone with conservative or Conservative views, we undermine our arguments by resorting to such infantile approaches. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:48 - Apr 17 with 1870 views | NeedhamChris |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 10:49 - Apr 17 by Keno |
Two things
if is annoys Nigel Farage its probably a good thing
also since when was trying to save the planet, keep green spaces etc a far right activity |
I don't know how sincere you are, but your first point is an example of the childish nature of political discourse at the moment - where policy is decided based on factions and not on it's own merits.
A different example;
A lack of proportional representation rightfully annoyed Nigel Farage when UKIP had 3m+ votes. Many (not all) of those now screaming for PR because of the Green Party and others who have sustainable and significant vote shares were silent about it when it was UKIP most adversely impacted. It's either good policy or it's not - who it offends shouldn't be the driver. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:51 - Apr 17 with 1835 views | Blueschev |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:40 - Apr 17 by NeedhamChris |
How very fascist of you. |
I'm not believe either of you are using the term in the correct context. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:53 - Apr 17 with 1810 views | PhilTWTD |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:45 - Apr 17 by NeedhamChris |
Would 100% agree with the point of your last sentence, the line between disagreement and offensiveness has become so blurry now it's dangerous.
I'm a Green Party member on the left of the political spectrum - but I just don't believe in censoring opposing viewpoints however much I disagree with them (unless they're against the law for other reasons).
Also, there's such a basic misunderstanding of what 'far right' is and the term gets banded about to just about anyone with conservative or Conservative views, we undermine our arguments by resorting to such infantile approaches. |
If people's political agendas are aimed at removing other people's rights/freedoms/freedom of speech etc based on race, gender, sexuality or religion, should they be afforded the right to promote those agendas? |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:01 - Apr 17 with 1748 views | Zapers |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:53 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
If people's political agendas are aimed at removing other people's rights/freedoms/freedom of speech etc based on race, gender, sexuality or religion, should they be afforded the right to promote those agendas? |
That's a stretch, depending on ones interpretation of course, and depending on who you are referencing. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:02 - Apr 17 with 1736 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:53 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
If people's political agendas are aimed at removing other people's rights/freedoms/freedom of speech etc based on race, gender, sexuality or religion, should they be afforded the right to promote those agendas? |
the law is very clear that the right to free speech isn't absolute - it can't be used to infringe the rights of others. but that's for the courts to enforce. just because someone disagrees with something or is offended by it doesn't put it outside the law - and the perceived effects of speech are often very subjective and depend upon the political agenda of the hearer. in the article i linked some of the things triggering censorship are actually established as protected beliefs under uk law. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:15 - Apr 17 with 1669 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:01 - Apr 17 by Zapers |
That's a stretch, depending on ones interpretation of course, and depending on who you are referencing. |
I can't see how it isn't applicable to Orban. He redrew the constitution and voting to suppress opposition or "dark forces" as he puts it. |  |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:18 - Apr 17 with 1641 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:02 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
the law is very clear that the right to free speech isn't absolute - it can't be used to infringe the rights of others. but that's for the courts to enforce. just because someone disagrees with something or is offended by it doesn't put it outside the law - and the perceived effects of speech are often very subjective and depend upon the political agenda of the hearer. in the article i linked some of the things triggering censorship are actually established as protected beliefs under uk law. |
How ironic, when Orban changed the laws to limit people that disagreed with him | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:22 - Apr 17 with 1608 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:18 - Apr 17 by Kropotkin123 |
How ironic, when Orban changed the laws to limit people that disagreed with him |
what's that got to do with free speech in the uk? and why is it ironic? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:25 - Apr 17 with 1572 views | Zapers |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:15 - Apr 17 by Kropotkin123 |
I can't see how it isn't applicable to Orban. He redrew the constitution and voting to suppress opposition or "dark forces" as he puts it. |
I very much doubt the focus of attention on here was Viktor Orban. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:39 - Apr 17 with 1466 views | DJR |
Closing the concert down doesn't seem right to me but I think it's difficult to argue that those who go on about cancel culture in this country are somehow prevented from having a platform, what with internet, the right wing press and GB News.
For my own point of view, Articles 4 and 5 of the first French constitution put it well.
Article 4: Liberty consists in being able to do anything that does not harm others: thus,
the exercise of the natural rights of every man has no bounds other than those that
ensure to the other members of society the enjoyment of these same rights. These
bounds may be determined only by Law.
Article 5: The Law has the right to forbid only those actions that are injurious to
society. Nothing that is not forbidden by Law may be hindered, and no one may
be compelled to do what the Law does not ordain. |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:19 - Apr 17 with 1333 views | PhilTWTD |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 13:25 - Apr 17 by Zapers |
I very much doubt the focus of attention on here was Viktor Orban. |
He's speaking in Brussels, I believe, and it was that which was the focus of the thread. | | | |
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