| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:29 - Apr 17 with 1044 views | baxterbasics |
Those cheering because it's Farage on the receiving end might want to think twice.
It is absolutely an attack not just on free speech but on freedom of assembly also.
Seems like a case of a socialist mayor getting above himself. He has now been overruled by the Belgian courts. His excuse was "public security" which had no evidential basis. Scored a bit of an own goal really given the publicity it's brought to a conference that otherwise would have gone by largely unnoticed.
We need to keep eyes on this sort of thing, also for example the preposterous hate laws passed in Scotland recently. |  |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:37 - Apr 17 with 995 views | Zapers |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:19 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
He's speaking in Brussels, I believe, and it was that which was the focus of the thread. |
Difficult to dispute that he was indeed there, but I'm not convinced he was the main focus, certainly not on here.
Anyway, we will never know I guess;) |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:43 - Apr 17 with 950 views | leitrimblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:29 - Apr 17 by baxterbasics |
Those cheering because it's Farage on the receiving end might want to think twice.
It is absolutely an attack not just on free speech but on freedom of assembly also.
Seems like a case of a socialist mayor getting above himself. He has now been overruled by the Belgian courts. His excuse was "public security" which had no evidential basis. Scored a bit of an own goal really given the publicity it's brought to a conference that otherwise would have gone by largely unnoticed.
We need to keep eyes on this sort of thing, also for example the preposterous hate laws passed in Scotland recently. |
Makes me wonder how far to the right these boys could go before you think actually that's a bit much perhaps that should be shut down? |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:45 - Apr 17 with 931 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:29 - Apr 17 by baxterbasics |
Those cheering because it's Farage on the receiving end might want to think twice.
It is absolutely an attack not just on free speech but on freedom of assembly also.
Seems like a case of a socialist mayor getting above himself. He has now been overruled by the Belgian courts. His excuse was "public security" which had no evidential basis. Scored a bit of an own goal really given the publicity it's brought to a conference that otherwise would have gone by largely unnoticed.
We need to keep eyes on this sort of thing, also for example the preposterous hate laws passed in Scotland recently. |
What about those who have concerns about the attendance of Mateusz Morawiecki who stripped back constitutional and judicial rights in Poland, to subvert opposition group's freedoms?
We should defend the rights of such a person, when they restricted others rights to the point of the EU taking legal action against his government? |  |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:49 - Apr 17 with 905 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:43 - Apr 17 by leitrimblue |
Makes me wonder how far to the right these boys could go before you think actually that's a bit much perhaps that should be shut down? |
there's a difference between disagreeing with someone and silencing them. you can do the former whenever you want, the later should be left to the law and the courts. first they came for the people i strongly disagreed with and i said hurrah; then they came for the people i mildly disagreed with and i said meh; then they lost power and the next lot came for me. b*gger. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:51 - Apr 17 with 886 views | DJR |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:29 - Apr 17 by baxterbasics |
Those cheering because it's Farage on the receiving end might want to think twice.
It is absolutely an attack not just on free speech but on freedom of assembly also.
Seems like a case of a socialist mayor getting above himself. He has now been overruled by the Belgian courts. His excuse was "public security" which had no evidential basis. Scored a bit of an own goal really given the publicity it's brought to a conference that otherwise would have gone by largely unnoticed.
We need to keep eyes on this sort of thing, also for example the preposterous hate laws passed in Scotland recently. |
It does strike me that there is some misunderstanding about the Scottish legislation.
There are currently offences of stirring up racial or religious hatred in the Public Order Act 1986.
Of course, some people might object to there being such offences, but if not, it seems not unreasonable (as has happened in Scotland) to extend these offence to others with protected characteristics under the Equality Act (eg. the disabled and LGBT people).
Indeed, this was something that the Law Commission recommended in 2021 for England and Wales. [Post edited 17 Apr 14:53]
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:53 - Apr 17 with 871 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:49 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
there's a difference between disagreeing with someone and silencing them. you can do the former whenever you want, the later should be left to the law and the courts. first they came for the people i strongly disagreed with and i said hurrah; then they came for the people i mildly disagreed with and i said meh; then they lost power and the next lot came for me. b*gger. |
Then why are you standing up for the freedom of speech of two people who have attempted to silence their opposition through their constitutional changes and attacks on the judiciary? | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:55 - Apr 17 with 854 views | leitrimblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:49 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
there's a difference between disagreeing with someone and silencing them. you can do the former whenever you want, the later should be left to the law and the courts. first they came for the people i strongly disagreed with and i said hurrah; then they came for the people i mildly disagreed with and i said meh; then they lost power and the next lot came for me. b*gger. |
So how far to the right would they have to go before you would feel uncomfortable with such a meeting? | | | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:57 - Apr 17 with 833 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:53 - Apr 17 by Kropotkin123 |
Then why are you standing up for the freedom of speech of two people who have attempted to silence their opposition through their constitutional changes and attacks on the judiciary? |
because we're better than that. replicating stuff we condemn isn't the way to go. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:58 - Apr 17 with 825 views | baxterbasics |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:43 - Apr 17 by leitrimblue |
Makes me wonder how far to the right these boys could go before you think actually that's a bit much perhaps that should be shut down? |
It's irrelevant.
Even Nazi skinheads have a right to assemble together in a private space. As do Stalinists.
As for speech, unless it's directly inciting to violence or causing danger to people or property, I think it's no business of the law. I'm heavily libertarian on this. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:59 - Apr 17 with 815 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:55 - Apr 17 by leitrimblue |
So how far to the right would they have to go before you would feel uncomfortable with such a meeting? |
if it doesn't break the law i'm fine with it but I'll still still disagree with what they say. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:04 - Apr 17 with 788 views | baxterbasics |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:45 - Apr 17 by Kropotkin123 |
What about those who have concerns about the attendance of Mateusz Morawiecki who stripped back constitutional and judicial rights in Poland, to subvert opposition group's freedoms?
We should defend the rights of such a person, when they restricted others rights to the point of the EU taking legal action against his government? |
Two wrongs don't make a right do they? If I steal from someone with a conviction for burglary or mugging, I'm still in the wrong, no?
You have every right to call out hypocrisy of course. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:07 - Apr 17 with 773 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:57 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
because we're better than that. replicating stuff we condemn isn't the way to go. |
I can agree or agree to disagree with that. I'm still not decided.
What I can't get on board with is this group being presented as victims with no recognition of the damage they've done across Europe to the freedom of millions of people who disagreed with them in a far more dangerous, long-lasting, and clinical way. [Post edited 17 Apr 15:18]
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:18 - Apr 17 with 731 views | leitrimblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:58 - Apr 17 by baxterbasics |
It's irrelevant.
Even Nazi skinheads have a right to assemble together in a private space. As do Stalinists.
As for speech, unless it's directly inciting to violence or causing danger to people or property, I think it's no business of the law. I'm heavily libertarian on this. |
Fair enough, so have Suella and Farage etc all shave their heads, start wearing swastikas and seig heiling you wouldn't really have a problem? | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:20 - Apr 17 with 715 views | PhilTWTD |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:37 - Apr 17 by Zapers |
Difficult to dispute that he was indeed there, but I'm not convinced he was the main focus, certainly not on here.
Anyway, we will never know I guess;) |
It was the likes of him I was making oblique reference to. |  | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:28 - Apr 17 with 671 views | Zapers |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:18 - Apr 17 by leitrimblue |
Fair enough, so have Suella and Farage etc all shave their heads, start wearing swastikas and seig heiling you wouldn't really have a problem? |
Bingo, we finally have someone who spills the beans!
Sorry Phil, I’m clearly more cynical than you. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:28 - Apr 17 with 672 views | baxterbasics |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:18 - Apr 17 by leitrimblue |
Fair enough, so have Suella and Farage etc all shave their heads, start wearing swastikas and seig heiling you wouldn't really have a problem? |
Have a problem personally? Yes of course and I would expect widespread condemnation in the court of public opinion. But not for them to be arrested or prevented from meeting. Not for that alone anyway - if it tips into incitement to commit serious crimes then that is where the law should step in. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:28 - Apr 17 with 671 views | NeedhamChris |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:53 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
If people's political agendas are aimed at removing other people's rights/freedoms/freedom of speech etc based on race, gender, sexuality or religion, should they be afforded the right to promote those agendas? |
If what they're pronouncing is illegal, no they shouldn't. For anything else, yes they should.
It's a dangerous road to say that our defence of basic rights should be dependant on whether we agree with them or not. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:29 - Apr 17 with 647 views | NeedhamChris |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 14:53 - Apr 17 by Kropotkin123 |
Then why are you standing up for the freedom of speech of two people who have attempted to silence their opposition through their constitutional changes and attacks on the judiciary? |
He's not - he's just standing up for freedom of speech.
It doesn't need qualifying, universal rights should be universal within the confines of the law. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:34 - Apr 17 with 616 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:04 - Apr 17 by baxterbasics |
Two wrongs don't make a right do they? If I steal from someone with a conviction for burglary or mugging, I'm still in the wrong, no?
You have every right to call out hypocrisy of course. |
The comparison is a false equivalence as it removes the scale and significance.
A fairer comparison would be being really offended about a kid stealing a penny sweet when that same victim of the kids actions was part of a criminal organization that were performing armed heists.
The other point that concerns me is that you display a lot of concern for the victims in Brussels, but seemingly no empathy for the people of Poland and Hungary.
I'd understand and support your position if it was solely against Farage and in the UK, as it would seem disproportionate to actions he's taken. [Post edited 17 Apr 15:35]
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:37 - Apr 17 with 595 views | PhilTWTD |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:28 - Apr 17 by NeedhamChris |
If what they're pronouncing is illegal, no they shouldn't. For anything else, yes they should.
It's a dangerous road to say that our defence of basic rights should be dependant on whether we agree with them or not. |
The latter's not quite the same thing though, is it? I was making more of a philosophical point; that using an argument about free speech as a defence when one's agenda is aimed at limiting others' freedoms seems a little hypocritical at best. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:43 - Apr 17 with 553 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:29 - Apr 17 by NeedhamChris |
He's not - he's just standing up for freedom of speech.
It doesn't need qualifying, universal rights should be universal within the confines of the law. |
The consequence of standing up for freedom of speech in this specific case is standing up for the freedom of speech of two people who have attempted to silence their opposition through their constitutional changes and attacks on the judiciary. So yes, they are. | |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:43 - Apr 17 with 557 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:37 - Apr 17 by PhilTWTD |
The latter's not quite the same thing though, is it? I was making more of a philosophical point; that using an argument about free speech as a defence when one's agenda is aimed at limiting others' freedoms seems a little hypocritical at best. |
who gets to judge what the implications of their agenda are? that can be a highly subjective assessment based upon one's own ideological position - it can come down basically to political disagreement. we can very often frame someone's views as amounting to an attack on the rights of others - but that doesn't necessarily make it true. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:48 - Apr 17 with 523 views | Bellevueblue |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 12:30 - Apr 17 by Blueschev |
As much as I despise him, comparing Farage to National Action is quite a stretch. |
Not sure why you think I'm comparing NA and Nigel. That's not what I said. | | | |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:56 - Apr 17 with 498 views | PhilTWTD |
| Attack on free speech in Brussels on 15:43 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
who gets to judge what the implications of their agenda are? that can be a highly subjective assessment based upon one's own ideological position - it can come down basically to political disagreement. we can very often frame someone's views as amounting to an attack on the rights of others - but that doesn't necessarily make it true. |
Sometimes that infringement of the rights of others isn't disputed by those promoting the agenda. | | | |
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