| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me 23:25 - Dec 1 with 2895 views | monytowbray |
It does all seem quite mad, doesn’t it. These protests are a product of a lack of action which is worrying, yet there is now a demand from chunks of the population that the protests only do things that can easily be ignored and we continue down a path with a lack of action.
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 09:38 - Dec 2 with 2099 views | bluelagos |
People's attitudes towards protesters has become incredibly intolerant, maybe it was always so, I don't know.
I sort of understand when people are themselves inconvenienced some people get the hump. They feel affronted and they get aggressive towards people because they feel the protesters should target the decision makers etc.
So next up some protesters start targeting some of oil companies and their financiers and the public still moan at the protesters. (Paint over buildings or over glass frames in art galleries)
I think some people are so welded to the idea of being law abiding, that they just can't cope with the idea that some people, sometimes believe it is justified to step outside of the law and do so knowing that they will pay a price. We toughen the laws, we fine and then place them in prison....and some protesters say thats cool, I will still protest.
That's the bit I think many can't cope with. The conscious decision to say "I know this is illegal, i know you will enforce the law, I still maintain my actions are justified..."
Many have an inbuilt desire to conform and they can't cope with those who choose not to, who think the destruction of the planet is a far bigger crime and so are willing and able to break laws irrespective.
When we look at the suffragettes, we admire them now, but at the time the majority of ordinary people made the exact same arguments against them. Same with civil rights protesters in America or South Africa.
History will look kindly on these protesters and their bravery to a hostile public, laws and judiciary. Less so "Mr Angry" frothing at the mouth and demanding ever more tougher policing/punishment of the protesters. |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 09:41 - Dec 2 with 2068 views | gtsb1966 |
That picture though. There's a difference between protesting and vandalism. [Post edited 2 Dec 2022 9:42]
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 09:43 - Dec 2 with 2061 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 09:41 - Dec 2 by gtsb1966 |
That picture though. There's a difference between protesting and vandalism. [Post edited 2 Dec 2022 9:42]
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Especially putting Maclaren colours over an Aston Martin shop...... |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 09:55 - Dec 2 with 2018 views | giant_stow |
From the article: 'Britain’s contradictory opposition to climate activism has, unsurprisingly, resulted in widespread public support for the Public Order bill. '
I just don't think the publics' opposition to climate protestors is contradictory, personally. Saying so assumes the activists are actually achieving anything. [Post edited 2 Dec 2022 9:56]
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 10:00 - Dec 2 with 1992 views | NthQldITFC |
I think that the problem is that most of the population think that climate change is a big issue in amongst a balance of things including their own convenience, rather than a juggernaut of an existential threat that is right on top of us.
I can ignore this nasty cough I've got cos I enjoys me fags, right up until the terminal lung cancer is diagnosed. |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 10:13 - Dec 2 with 1957 views | Darth_Koont |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 10:00 - Dec 2 by NthQldITFC |
I think that the problem is that most of the population think that climate change is a big issue in amongst a balance of things including their own convenience, rather than a juggernaut of an existential threat that is right on top of us.
I can ignore this nasty cough I've got cos I enjoys me fags, right up until the terminal lung cancer is diagnosed. |
Exactly.
To a great extent, the population can take its cues from the political and media discussion of the climate crisis. Which means a lot of hand-wringing and minimal change as if it’s all about using fewer plastic bags and recycling more.
The reaction against climate activists pushing much further and much, much harder than that is a resistance to the actual major changes and sacrifices this unfolding catastrophe demands.
Agreeing that climate change is a big issue is literally nothing (and certainly costs nothing) compared to actually committing to doing something about it. |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 10:19 - Dec 2 with 1930 views | StokieBlue |
Absolutely behind their right to protest and to do so in a disruptive way because nothing else is clearly working.
However as a lover of art I hope they don't follow through with the threats in the article below. There are a finite number of works by great artists and I don't think we need to destroy one finite resource to highlight that another finite resource needs to be protected.
The people who don't care about the Earth as a finite resource probably don't care about fine art as a finite resource so I'm not sure how effective it would be. Things that cause them direct inconvenience seem to get more attention.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/just-stop-oil-considers-slashing-famous-artworks-as-e
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 12:31 - Dec 2 with 1767 views | Illinoisblue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 10:00 - Dec 2 by NthQldITFC |
I think that the problem is that most of the population think that climate change is a big issue in amongst a balance of things including their own convenience, rather than a juggernaut of an existential threat that is right on top of us.
I can ignore this nasty cough I've got cos I enjoys me fags, right up until the terminal lung cancer is diagnosed. |
My house on fire? oh no, awful. World on fire? Meh |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 13:07 - Dec 2 with 1704 views | giant_stow |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 10:19 - Dec 2 by StokieBlue |
Absolutely behind their right to protest and to do so in a disruptive way because nothing else is clearly working.
However as a lover of art I hope they don't follow through with the threats in the article below. There are a finite number of works by great artists and I don't think we need to destroy one finite resource to highlight that another finite resource needs to be protected.
The people who don't care about the Earth as a finite resource probably don't care about fine art as a finite resource so I'm not sure how effective it would be. Things that cause them direct inconvenience seem to get more attention.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/just-stop-oil-considers-slashing-famous-artworks-as-e
SB |
"The people who don't care about the Earth as a finite resource probably don't care about fine art as a finite resource so I'm not sure how effective it would be. Things that cause them direct inconvenience seem to get more attention."
See this slightly differently personally. I would say the people in power, are more likely to care about art, so action against art would be more likely to hurt them than action against Joe Bloggs on the M25 and therefore have more potential impact. Punching up, not down.
Could be wrong. | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 13:57 - Dec 2 with 1617 views | StokieBlue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 13:07 - Dec 2 by giant_stow |
"The people who don't care about the Earth as a finite resource probably don't care about fine art as a finite resource so I'm not sure how effective it would be. Things that cause them direct inconvenience seem to get more attention."
See this slightly differently personally. I would say the people in power, are more likely to care about art, so action against art would be more likely to hurt them than action against Joe Bloggs on the M25 and therefore have more potential impact. Punching up, not down.
Could be wrong. |
What have you based that on?
You're essentially saying "poorer" people don't care about art, not sure that's a good take.
SB | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:29 - Dec 2 with 1572 views | SpruceMoose |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 13:07 - Dec 2 by giant_stow |
"The people who don't care about the Earth as a finite resource probably don't care about fine art as a finite resource so I'm not sure how effective it would be. Things that cause them direct inconvenience seem to get more attention."
See this slightly differently personally. I would say the people in power, are more likely to care about art, so action against art would be more likely to hurt them than action against Joe Bloggs on the M25 and therefore have more potential impact. Punching up, not down.
Could be wrong. |
Are wrong there Ulla. Are wrong. |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:34 - Dec 2 with 1557 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 09:38 - Dec 2 by bluelagos |
People's attitudes towards protesters has become incredibly intolerant, maybe it was always so, I don't know.
I sort of understand when people are themselves inconvenienced some people get the hump. They feel affronted and they get aggressive towards people because they feel the protesters should target the decision makers etc.
So next up some protesters start targeting some of oil companies and their financiers and the public still moan at the protesters. (Paint over buildings or over glass frames in art galleries)
I think some people are so welded to the idea of being law abiding, that they just can't cope with the idea that some people, sometimes believe it is justified to step outside of the law and do so knowing that they will pay a price. We toughen the laws, we fine and then place them in prison....and some protesters say thats cool, I will still protest.
That's the bit I think many can't cope with. The conscious decision to say "I know this is illegal, i know you will enforce the law, I still maintain my actions are justified..."
Many have an inbuilt desire to conform and they can't cope with those who choose not to, who think the destruction of the planet is a far bigger crime and so are willing and able to break laws irrespective.
When we look at the suffragettes, we admire them now, but at the time the majority of ordinary people made the exact same arguments against them. Same with civil rights protesters in America or South Africa.
History will look kindly on these protesters and their bravery to a hostile public, laws and judiciary. Less so "Mr Angry" frothing at the mouth and demanding ever more tougher policing/punishment of the protesters. |
Actually I have the same view on the suffragettes as I do with the JustStopOil/ER lot. That the cause is obviously right but some of the methods are a disgrace.
That girl who died is lauded as a hero when she was quite happy trying to kill a horse by running in front of it to bring it and herself to the deck. History regards her as a hero when in fact she was a bit of a tosser. |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:35 - Dec 2 with 1552 views | giant_stow |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 13:57 - Dec 2 by StokieBlue |
What have you based that on?
You're essentially saying "poorer" people don't care about art, not sure that's a good take.
SB |
Yeah I guess I am, which is a massive generalisation, but we are talking in those general terms. Obviously they'll be exceptions. | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:36 - Dec 2 with 1540 views | giant_stow |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:29 - Dec 2 by SpruceMoose |
Are wrong there Ulla. Are wrong. |
I am used to this feeling! But happy to put it out there as something's always seemed off about these protests - now that they're attacking 'Art', not people's livelihoods, I finally can get a little more with the programme.
Just a very late edit / addition here which isn't worth a new post: https://www.ft.com/content/a6272982-b237-11e6-a37c-f4a01f1b0fa1
On big oil / corporate sponsorship of art - predates the recent protests [Post edited 2 Dec 2022 14:54]
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:37 - Dec 2 with 1538 views | SpruceMoose |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:34 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Actually I have the same view on the suffragettes as I do with the JustStopOil/ER lot. That the cause is obviously right but some of the methods are a disgrace.
That girl who died is lauded as a hero when she was quite happy trying to kill a horse by running in front of it to bring it and herself to the deck. History regards her as a hero when in fact she was a bit of a tosser. |
All Horses Matter.
Unless it's the Grand National. | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:37 - Dec 2 with 1533 views | bluelagos |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:34 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Actually I have the same view on the suffragettes as I do with the JustStopOil/ER lot. That the cause is obviously right but some of the methods are a disgrace.
That girl who died is lauded as a hero when she was quite happy trying to kill a horse by running in front of it to bring it and herself to the deck. History regards her as a hero when in fact she was a bit of a tosser. |
I know you like horses Rommy - but that's some take:- "happily trying to kill a horse" | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:38 - Dec 2 with 1529 views | StokieBlue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:34 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Actually I have the same view on the suffragettes as I do with the JustStopOil/ER lot. That the cause is obviously right but some of the methods are a disgrace.
That girl who died is lauded as a hero when she was quite happy trying to kill a horse by running in front of it to bring it and herself to the deck. History regards her as a hero when in fact she was a bit of a tosser. |
On a thread about cognitive dissonance it seems quite apt that you'd criticise someone who may have hurt a horse (trying to kill is debatable) whilst often posting your affection for a sport where horses are actually killed.
SB | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:38 - Dec 2 with 1528 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:37 - Dec 2 by SpruceMoose |
All Horses Matter.
Unless it's the Grand National. |
Don’t start Sprucey. You’ve only been back a week (welcome back btw). | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:40 - Dec 2 with 1516 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:37 - Dec 2 by bluelagos |
I know you like horses Rommy - but that's some take:- "happily trying to kill a horse" |
She knew running in front of the horse at Tottenham corner (the downhill section of the course) meant it would be doing around 38mph. She was well odds on to kill it but she quite clearly didn’t care.
She’s a legend in the name of women’s rights but also a bit of a c**t for attempting to kill a racehorse. But because it was the kings horse, it’s seen as ok? Madness | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:40 - Dec 2 with 1512 views | LankHenners |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:34 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Actually I have the same view on the suffragettes as I do with the JustStopOil/ER lot. That the cause is obviously right but some of the methods are a disgrace.
That girl who died is lauded as a hero when she was quite happy trying to kill a horse by running in front of it to bring it and herself to the deck. History regards her as a hero when in fact she was a bit of a tosser. |
Absolutely bizarre (and likely incorrect) reading of a historical event. |  |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:41 - Dec 2 with 1506 views | SpruceMoose |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:38 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Don’t start Sprucey. You’ve only been back a week (welcome back btw). |
I'm sorry. I didn't think your post deserved a serious response. Having an issue with universal suffrage because a horse died is an absolutely horrific take. | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:42 - Dec 2 with 1493 views | SpruceMoose |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:40 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
She knew running in front of the horse at Tottenham corner (the downhill section of the course) meant it would be doing around 38mph. She was well odds on to kill it but she quite clearly didn’t care.
She’s a legend in the name of women’s rights but also a bit of a c**t for attempting to kill a racehorse. But because it was the kings horse, it’s seen as ok? Madness |
Oh so she's a c**t now too?
Wow. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:43 - Dec 2 with 1483 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:38 - Dec 2 by StokieBlue |
On a thread about cognitive dissonance it seems quite apt that you'd criticise someone who may have hurt a horse (trying to kill is debatable) whilst often posting your affection for a sport where horses are actually killed.
SB |
Horses die in racing as an accident though. The horses are loved, cared for etc.
Whereas she was quite happy to let the horse be killed in the name of protest. If animal abuse is acceptable as protest, where do we draw the line? We’ve got Callis refusing to pay for trains. Fair enough, it’s a protest. We’ve got people blocking cars on their way to hospitals, work etc. Fair enough, it’s a protest? We’ve got people trying to kill animals, fair enough, it’s a - actually no that is wrong. | |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:45 - Dec 2 with 1459 views | SpruceMoose |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:43 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Horses die in racing as an accident though. The horses are loved, cared for etc.
Whereas she was quite happy to let the horse be killed in the name of protest. If animal abuse is acceptable as protest, where do we draw the line? We’ve got Callis refusing to pay for trains. Fair enough, it’s a protest. We’ve got people blocking cars on their way to hospitals, work etc. Fair enough, it’s a protest? We’ve got people trying to kill animals, fair enough, it’s a - actually no that is wrong. |
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've been on the beers before the Town game. Best I leave it here at this point! | |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:46 - Dec 2 with 1457 views | StokieBlue |
| The cognitive dissonance at a fundamental level does baffle me on 14:43 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Horses die in racing as an accident though. The horses are loved, cared for etc.
Whereas she was quite happy to let the horse be killed in the name of protest. If animal abuse is acceptable as protest, where do we draw the line? We’ve got Callis refusing to pay for trains. Fair enough, it’s a protest. We’ve got people blocking cars on their way to hospitals, work etc. Fair enough, it’s a protest? We’ve got people trying to kill animals, fair enough, it’s a - actually no that is wrong. |
Well there are two things here:
1) The horse didn't die, it completed the race.
2) I still think it's a huge level of cognitive dissonance to "hand wave" away deaths in horse racing because you enjoy it whilst criticising a protestor fighting for women's rights who could have killed a horse but didn't.
SB | |
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