| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum 15:25 - Feb 6 with 12914 views | Cotty |
I'm sorry, poorly judged post which I regret. Please accept my apology. [Post edited 10 Feb 2017 10:10]
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 23:19 - Feb 6 with 1619 views | WeWereZombies |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 22:51 - Feb 6 by caught-in-limbo |
This is a very crude presentation of data. These results mean little without knowing what the %age turnout was in those wards used in the sample, and any sort of indicator showing likelihood of voting to level of education.
A snapshot by country:
England Turnout: 73.0%:
Leave 53.4% Remain 46.6%
Northern Ireland Turnout: 62.7%
Leave 44.2% Remain 55.8%
Scotland Turnout: 67.2%
Leave 38.0% Remain 62.0%
Wales Turnout: 71.7%
Leave 52.5% Remain 47.5%
So if we take it that there is correlation between level of education and voting pattern. The above figures show that when the vote is for Brexit (the supposedly less well educated's choice) the turnout is higher.
Of course it's quite a leap to say that the better educated were less like to vote, but that inference could equally be drawn with the information so poorly presented as it is here. [Post edited 6 Feb 2017 22:54]
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The analysis that came out in the days following the referendum did show that turnout was higher in the older age groups though, and that there appeared to be some complacency in younger voters regarding the probability of a Remain win - rather than pejorative claims about voter's intelligence we should look at the more successful mobilisation of getting voters to the polls achieved by the Leave campaign. This brings us back to the fairly obvious conclusion that the Remain campaign was lacklustre and that the Leave campaign was better backed financially - and that translated into more false information and opinionated media outlets swaying undecided voters. |  |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 23:50 - Feb 6 with 1585 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 23:19 - Feb 6 by WeWereZombies |
The analysis that came out in the days following the referendum did show that turnout was higher in the older age groups though, and that there appeared to be some complacency in younger voters regarding the probability of a Remain win - rather than pejorative claims about voter's intelligence we should look at the more successful mobilisation of getting voters to the polls achieved by the Leave campaign. This brings us back to the fairly obvious conclusion that the Remain campaign was lacklustre and that the Leave campaign was better backed financially - and that translated into more false information and opinionated media outlets swaying undecided voters. |
"This brings us back to the fairly obvious conclusion that the Remain campaign was lacklustre and that the Leave campaign was better backed financially - and that translated into more false information"
Living out here, I wasn't witness to all the false information or any lack of explanation of what would need to happen and the timescales required in the event of a Leave win. Were there any good journalists taking Boris Johnson's team apart over any of this information which was either false or lacking? Did any journalist brand his claims "fake"? And are any of these news agencies remotely concerned that this man - peddler of false information - is now the country's Foreign Secretary? |  |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 00:01 - Feb 7 with 1586 views | feelingblue |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 18:58 - Feb 6 by clive_baker |
So do I, a 1st from one of the leading universities in the country which might surprise a few on here haha. A chartership in my profession too. I also voted out. That said I don't doubt this data, I'm aware my sample size of 1 isn't overly insightful. I do find the whole 'with or without a degree' thing emphasised by the media to be a bit distasteful actually, and rather snobbish. I know lots of highly intelligent and well read people that don't have a degree, and I didn't realise one vote from someone with a degree was worth more than a vote from someone without. I'm proud of our freedom of speech and democratic society, and the reaction to this referendum result and subsequent online petitions, demands for a 2nd referendum, protests and general attitude to others who voted differently really disappoints me. I wonder how many of those millions of people would've signed a petition for another referendum on the grounds of low turn out had the vote been to remain? |
Was your 1st in English? |  | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 14:03 - Feb 7 with 1511 views | WeWereZombies |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 23:50 - Feb 6 by caught-in-limbo |
"This brings us back to the fairly obvious conclusion that the Remain campaign was lacklustre and that the Leave campaign was better backed financially - and that translated into more false information"
Living out here, I wasn't witness to all the false information or any lack of explanation of what would need to happen and the timescales required in the event of a Leave win. Were there any good journalists taking Boris Johnson's team apart over any of this information which was either false or lacking? Did any journalist brand his claims "fake"? And are any of these news agencies remotely concerned that this man - peddler of false information - is now the country's Foreign Secretary? |
Well Boris did famously write two editions (one Leave and one Remain) of an article shortly before the vote, he was quite prepared to ride the wave of misleading information once he (correctly in this case) guessed which way the vote would go - with the aim (incorrectly so far) of becoming the next prime minister. The cases of straight banana guff and million word documents on how to grow cabbages supposedly sprouting from Brussels (2000 pages and from the USA at the end of the Second World War i.e. before the Common Market had even formed in the cabbage case) were challenged (BBC's 'More or Less' presented by the FT's Tim Harford did a good job) but conveniently ignored by The Sun and The Express - they know who their paymasters are.
Here's a restrained commentary from The Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/eu-referendum-could-the-uk-media-s [Post edited 7 Feb 2017 14:05]
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 15:22 - Feb 7 with 1466 views | No9 |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 23:19 - Feb 6 by WeWereZombies |
The analysis that came out in the days following the referendum did show that turnout was higher in the older age groups though, and that there appeared to be some complacency in younger voters regarding the probability of a Remain win - rather than pejorative claims about voter's intelligence we should look at the more successful mobilisation of getting voters to the polls achieved by the Leave campaign. This brings us back to the fairly obvious conclusion that the Remain campaign was lacklustre and that the Leave campaign was better backed financially - and that translated into more false information and opinionated media outlets swaying undecided voters. |
Yes, the leave campaign was considerably better funded & funded by people & organisations that have an interest in the UK leaving the EU for a number of reasons but, if one looks at Dr Fox's realtions with America & how much American money may have come in behind leave it should raise a number of questins about the legalities & legitimacies .
Also the famous English family supporting leave whilst increasing it's investments, not in the UK but in India (cheap labour) so that it can lower the prices of its merchandise.
We must assume the media had more input from Leave than they did from remain which begs the question why was the remain campaign not better prepared = did they (Cameron & Osborne) REALLY want to stay? |  | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 16:11 - Feb 7 with 1438 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 15:22 - Feb 7 by No9 |
Yes, the leave campaign was considerably better funded & funded by people & organisations that have an interest in the UK leaving the EU for a number of reasons but, if one looks at Dr Fox's realtions with America & how much American money may have come in behind leave it should raise a number of questins about the legalities & legitimacies .
Also the famous English family supporting leave whilst increasing it's investments, not in the UK but in India (cheap labour) so that it can lower the prices of its merchandise.
We must assume the media had more input from Leave than they did from remain which begs the question why was the remain campaign not better prepared = did they (Cameron & Osborne) REALLY want to stay? |
If they had really wanted to stay then the vote to leave would have been set at a 2/3rds of the vote - which I understand is far more conventional for votes on changes of this magnitude. | |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 16:19 - Feb 7 with 1424 views | No9 |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 16:11 - Feb 7 by caught-in-limbo |
If they had really wanted to stay then the vote to leave would have been set at a 2/3rds of the vote - which I understand is far more conventional for votes on changes of this magnitude. |
Yes, or there would have been some caveats relaive to the T's & C's
Having said that Cameron was sh!t scared of the RW tories who are a pretty horrible bunch at the ebst of times.
But I feel this si much more than that.
If you look at who Fox has bbeen & is still aligned with in the USA no sane person would not have some concerns about where this might go to.
The EU may not be perfect but I feel safer with what Brussels do that I do with the likes of Dr Fox, John Redwood et al. | | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 17:00 - Feb 7 with 1412 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 16:19 - Feb 7 by No9 |
Yes, or there would have been some caveats relaive to the T's & C's
Having said that Cameron was sh!t scared of the RW tories who are a pretty horrible bunch at the ebst of times.
But I feel this si much more than that.
If you look at who Fox has bbeen & is still aligned with in the USA no sane person would not have some concerns about where this might go to.
The EU may not be perfect but I feel safer with what Brussels do that I do with the likes of Dr Fox, John Redwood et al. |
I shouldn't worry too much about what might transpire, my experience of these things is this: we'll all get a bit poorer and a little less freer to someone's gain - but not sufficiently or quickly enough to actually do anything about it. As long as we still believe we can change things by way of our beautiful democracy we'll continue our slow decent into relative poverty and reduced liberties with self-satisfied grins on our faces while gently mocking anyone who acknowledges what's actually going on. | |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 17:22 - Feb 7 with 1400 views | clive_baker |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 00:01 - Feb 7 by feelingblue |
Was your 1st in English? |
I don't like your sarcasm :-P
I do numbers, not words. |  |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 17:54 - Feb 7 with 1379 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 14:03 - Feb 7 by WeWereZombies |
Well Boris did famously write two editions (one Leave and one Remain) of an article shortly before the vote, he was quite prepared to ride the wave of misleading information once he (correctly in this case) guessed which way the vote would go - with the aim (incorrectly so far) of becoming the next prime minister. The cases of straight banana guff and million word documents on how to grow cabbages supposedly sprouting from Brussels (2000 pages and from the USA at the end of the Second World War i.e. before the Common Market had even formed in the cabbage case) were challenged (BBC's 'More or Less' presented by the FT's Tim Harford did a good job) but conveniently ignored by The Sun and The Express - they know who their paymasters are.
Here's a restrained commentary from The Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/eu-referendum-could-the-uk-media-s [Post edited 7 Feb 2017 14:05]
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Thanks for that. Interesting breakdown of points in the links at the end. It all comes across as a carefully managed show to me - but then I've said that for years now.
But that's what they DON'T want us to think. | |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 19:34 - Feb 7 with 1349 views | lowhouseblue |
i haven't read the whole thread so this may have already been posted. the most basic prediction about globalisation is that wage differentials will rise in rich countries. the wages of low skilled workers will fall relative to those of high skilled workers. low skilled workers don't therefore like globalisation (inc european integration) whilst high skilled workers do. no one's thick, everyone is voting in terms of self-interest. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 22:03 - Feb 7 with 1317 views | No9 |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 14:03 - Feb 7 by WeWereZombies |
Well Boris did famously write two editions (one Leave and one Remain) of an article shortly before the vote, he was quite prepared to ride the wave of misleading information once he (correctly in this case) guessed which way the vote would go - with the aim (incorrectly so far) of becoming the next prime minister. The cases of straight banana guff and million word documents on how to grow cabbages supposedly sprouting from Brussels (2000 pages and from the USA at the end of the Second World War i.e. before the Common Market had even formed in the cabbage case) were challenged (BBC's 'More or Less' presented by the FT's Tim Harford did a good job) but conveniently ignored by The Sun and The Express - they know who their paymasters are.
Here's a restrained commentary from The Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/eu-referendum-could-the-uk-media-s [Post edited 7 Feb 2017 14:05]
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The real issue is of course that very few if any of the media has ever loked at the EU factually & there are certainly no persons I know of who are willing totake on board the realities of what the EU 's aims & objectives are.
That is simly because the voices of the RW tories are tooloud & UKip, too dishonest = they get all the attention
The BBC have been negligent in providing real information about the EU - even some of their senior people have acknowledged that | | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 07:33 - Feb 8 with 1281 views | bluebud |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 23:02 - Feb 6 by Swansea_Blue |
Sorry if i've missed something, but where has it been said that a vote from someone with a degree is worth more than from someone without? That's not the first time it's been mentioned on here. There has been some snobbery, but I can't recall anyone suggesting they are more worthy. |
That's Cotty all over. |  | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 08:15 - Feb 8 with 1257 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 07:33 - Feb 8 by bluebud |
That's Cotty all over. |
In reality Cotty has never really left school. He's been living in a bubble all of his life. |  |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:21 - Feb 8 with 1234 views | tiptreeblue |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 17:00 - Feb 7 by caught-in-limbo |
I shouldn't worry too much about what might transpire, my experience of these things is this: we'll all get a bit poorer and a little less freer to someone's gain - but not sufficiently or quickly enough to actually do anything about it. As long as we still believe we can change things by way of our beautiful democracy we'll continue our slow decent into relative poverty and reduced liberties with self-satisfied grins on our faces while gently mocking anyone who acknowledges what's actually going on. |
is this a fact or a possibility? | | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:29 - Feb 8 with 1228 views | m14_blue |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 17:54 - Feb 7 by caught-in-limbo |
Thanks for that. Interesting breakdown of points in the links at the end. It all comes across as a carefully managed show to me - but then I've said that for years now.
But that's what they DON'T want us to think. |
I know you were very sceptical that Brexit would ever happen in any meaningful way.
Now that a hard Brexit seems inevitable, has your view changed at all? | | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:38 - Feb 8 with 1222 views | chicoazul |
"Everyone who voted leave is stupid"
Pathetic. |  |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:44 - Feb 8 with 1205 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:38 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
"Everyone who voted leave is stupid"
Pathetic. |
You have to put this in context. Cotty has backed more losing campaigns than Eddie Izzard. | |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:48 - Feb 8 with 1191 views | feelingblue |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:44 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
You have to put this in context. Cotty has backed more losing campaigns than Eddie Izzard. |
If you want to follow that argument, you need to decide whether to support Chelsea or Man City. | | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:51 - Feb 8 with 1192 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:44 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
You have to put this in context. Cotty has backed more losing campaigns than Eddie Izzard. |
I like Cotty. But this smug attitude is killing the left wing in this country and on the continent. All the high profile left wingers in the UK like Eddie Izzard, Charlotte Church, Ian Dunt, Danny Blanchflower, David Lammy, every single time they open their mouths to pontificate they set their cause backwards. And that is no good as we need adversarial politics in this country. | |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:56 - Feb 8 with 1172 views | giant_stow |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:51 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
I like Cotty. But this smug attitude is killing the left wing in this country and on the continent. All the high profile left wingers in the UK like Eddie Izzard, Charlotte Church, Ian Dunt, Danny Blanchflower, David Lammy, every single time they open their mouths to pontificate they set their cause backwards. And that is no good as we need adversarial politics in this country. |
Now that Jezza's decided to tow the line at long last, just at the wrong moment, there's no left.
You can't blame something that doesn't exist.
Oh and btw, Lammy is an absolute tosser (word from the inside). |  |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:58 - Feb 8 with 1158 views | Cotty |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:51 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
I like Cotty. But this smug attitude is killing the left wing in this country and on the continent. All the high profile left wingers in the UK like Eddie Izzard, Charlotte Church, Ian Dunt, Danny Blanchflower, David Lammy, every single time they open their mouths to pontificate they set their cause backwards. And that is no good as we need adversarial politics in this country. |
I was fishing rather than actually being smug, I'm fully aware of the underlying reasons for this correlation. But whatevs. Given the page count it looks like I've been "successful" | | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 10:08 - Feb 8 with 1139 views | feelingblue |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:51 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
I like Cotty. But this smug attitude is killing the left wing in this country and on the continent. All the high profile left wingers in the UK like Eddie Izzard, Charlotte Church, Ian Dunt, Danny Blanchflower, David Lammy, every single time they open their mouths to pontificate they set their cause backwards. And that is no good as we need adversarial politics in this country. |
The last thing we need in this country is more adversarial politics.
We need a generation of broadly consensus driven government capable of taking a long term view on addressing our major structural economic problems.
We need to find out why we are the second least productive economy in Northern Europe and address it.
We need to understand why we can't clear our budget deficit despite years of 'austerity' and then act on it.
We need to address the fact that we run the second largest trade deficit on earth, miles bigger than Brazil in 3rd (US is a different universe worse), when many European countries manage to run huge trade surpluses.
We are sailing blithely towards a more and more troubled future. It has nothing to do with the EU, in or out, and quite a lot to do with the first past the post governments, leading to short termism, and therefore an unwillingness to address the decline of our extractive and engineering industries, fiddling around with the education system rather than coherent change, and pretending that things are going well, because growing up and admitting the truth would lose the next election. | | | |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 10:09 - Feb 8 with 1133 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 09:58 - Feb 8 by Cotty |
I was fishing rather than actually being smug, I'm fully aware of the underlying reasons for this correlation. But whatevs. Given the page count it looks like I've been "successful" |
You must feel proud. | |
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| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 10:10 - Feb 8 with 1129 views | Cotty |
| Interesting new detailed statistics on the referendum on 10:09 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
You must feel proud. |
Not particularly, hence the "" | | | |
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