| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) 23:31 - Feb 18 with 2944 views | factual_blue |
|  |
| |  |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 09:20 - Feb 19 with 807 views | WD19 |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 09:13 - Feb 19 by factual_blue |
On the 'special relationship', I've just finished reading Anthony Beevor's book Ardennes 1944. That shows - although as a military historian Beevor doesn't really bring it out - how that campaign affected the relationship between the US and Britain.
The whole NW Europe campaign was dogged by friction in Allied high command, primarily dominated by Montgomery. He thought he was the best general in the world which, for the sort of campaign that was being fought, he certainly wasn't. When given his head at Arnhem, it went hideously wrong.
He used the German attack in the Ardennes in 1944 as a further attempt to increase his power. For operational reasons he did get increased responsibilities during that campaign, but by the end of it his incessant self-aggrandisement had finally worn the ever-patient Eisenhower down. The British were sidelined for the rest of the war.
Eleven years later all this had serious repercussions. Eisenhower was President at the time of Suez and one of the main reasons why the US didn't support the Anglo-French action was because of Montgomery's behaviour. He simply no longer trusted the British military after December 1944. |
Just finished that one myself. Wish Beevor had drawn out more of that element, I found the military/core part of the book a bit repetitive. A decent read still, but probably my least favourite of the 5 or so books of his I have read. |  | | |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 09:27 - Feb 19 with 794 views | gordon |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 08:41 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
The same parallels can be drawn in Russia (non-Caucasians and homosexuals) and the same behaviour can be seen in China and many other countries (persecution of Uighers) yet nobody compares them to Hitler.
Now don't get me wrong, Trump is a repugnant individual and shouldn't be anywhere near that level of power. However he's also not Hitler, he hasn't and won't start a war across the entire globe or build a national infrastructure to exterminate groups he doesn't like.
It's a terrible example of Godwins law that lots of people seem to think is acceptable. Trump is Trump and the way things are going that is bad enough. I feel that comparing him to Hitler or the Nazi's of the 1930/1940's in some devalues the awful acts that many people were subject to in those dark days.
It's lazy, fight against Trump by ridiculing and dissecting the things he has done, not by comparing him to one of the most horrible regimes in history when the actual deeds undertaken are not comparable.
SB |
You're right in a sense - the correct comparison would be with the first month of Hitler in power - I'm no history buff so can't comment. Comparisons would probably not be particularly useful then.
Just as an aside, it's not an example of Godwin's Law, and Godwin's Law doesn't make any judgement on whether mentioning Hitler/Nazis is right or wrong in any given situation. Godwin's Law states that as the longer an internet discussion goes on, the probability of Hitler/Nazis being mentioned tends towards 1.
One would also be correct in saying that the longer an internet discussion about Trump goes on, the probability of someone invoking Godwin's Law tends towards 1. |  | | |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 09:32 - Feb 19 with 785 views | factual_blue |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 09:20 - Feb 19 by WD19 |
Just finished that one myself. Wish Beevor had drawn out more of that element, I found the military/core part of the book a bit repetitive. A decent read still, but probably my least favourite of the 5 or so books of his I have read. |
Yes - struck me as a bit lazy - just regurgitating the official war diaries. Stalingrad and Berlin revealed a lot of new stuff from Russian archives.
D-Day is a much more compelling story than the Ardennes. | |
| |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 10:35 - Feb 19 with 744 views | powinswitch |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 09:13 - Feb 19 by factual_blue |
On the 'special relationship', I've just finished reading Anthony Beevor's book Ardennes 1944. That shows - although as a military historian Beevor doesn't really bring it out - how that campaign affected the relationship between the US and Britain.
The whole NW Europe campaign was dogged by friction in Allied high command, primarily dominated by Montgomery. He thought he was the best general in the world which, for the sort of campaign that was being fought, he certainly wasn't. When given his head at Arnhem, it went hideously wrong.
He used the German attack in the Ardennes in 1944 as a further attempt to increase his power. For operational reasons he did get increased responsibilities during that campaign, but by the end of it his incessant self-aggrandisement had finally worn the ever-patient Eisenhower down. The British were sidelined for the rest of the war.
Eleven years later all this had serious repercussions. Eisenhower was President at the time of Suez and one of the main reasons why the US didn't support the Anglo-French action was because of Montgomery's behaviour. He simply no longer trusted the British military after December 1944. |
All fair comments. Montgomery is a known egotist. Perhaps like somebody else we are discussing. But it does not (in my eyes) excuse Obama's back of the queue comments. Personally I will never forgive him for them. |  | | |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 11:03 - Feb 19 with 733 views | No9 |
| So - Florida is the new Nuremburg (n/t) on 10:35 - Feb 19 by powinswitch |
All fair comments. Montgomery is a known egotist. Perhaps like somebody else we are discussing. But it does not (in my eyes) excuse Obama's back of the queue comments. Personally I will never forgive him for them. |
You have to take Obama's comments on the UK's place in the queue looking at the circumstances at the time. The Brisih media are incapable of presenting anything other tahn by headline soundbites.
Democracy in the EU defeated TTIP largely due to the horrible ISDS part. This agreement was something Obama desperately wanted to get finsihed while he was President knowing that whoever follwed him it may well fall by the wayside anyway.
That meant any further negotiations on trade will take some considerable time & may never go at all. The USA would negotiate with the larger trading block & the UK who already is a major exporter to the US can wait. It may not be palatable but it makes sense.
Trump says he is going to tear up all trade agreements and re-negotiate them on the basis of America first.
What you should be more worried about is that May's head isn't so far up Trump's @rse she cant't see anything other than his adams apple.
For the record I was very much against TTIP & fear Trump will put inplace something much, much worse for the UK. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
