| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? 10:46 - Mar 28 with 6624 views | hype313 |
If so, please elaborate as why he isn't. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 19:20 - Mar 29 with 769 views | Superfrans |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 18:09 - Mar 29 by sparks |
Depreciation does have an impact on the cash injected. Its not huge, but does mitigate the same below the oft reported figure. |
Of course. But that wasn't the point under discussion.
The point under discussion was whether a £5m loss last year (as stated in the audited accounts) represents a £5m investment by the company's owner. Which it does.
If anything, the covering of the debt is likely to understate any investment, because any other value bought from the club (e.g., shirt sponsorship, ticket purchases, etc) would be on top.
Personally, I still don't see why the owner would sell a player and then not reinvest some or all of it, unless they budget for it (i.e. plan to receive it). Most businesses budget on a year to year basis - so budget to make a margin/profit of a certain percentage or sum. In Evans' case, you would assume that he budgets to make a loss, year by year - perhaps £6m, perhaps £4m. On the basis that he has rarely broken even, that would make sense. So why, in a year when you find yourself with a windfall from transfer fees, would you not stick to your budget and invest what has come in on top of what is expected, or put it in reserves. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 19:26 - Mar 29 with 761 views | sparks |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 19:20 - Mar 29 by Superfrans |
Of course. But that wasn't the point under discussion.
The point under discussion was whether a £5m loss last year (as stated in the audited accounts) represents a £5m investment by the company's owner. Which it does.
If anything, the covering of the debt is likely to understate any investment, because any other value bought from the club (e.g., shirt sponsorship, ticket purchases, etc) would be on top.
Personally, I still don't see why the owner would sell a player and then not reinvest some or all of it, unless they budget for it (i.e. plan to receive it). Most businesses budget on a year to year basis - so budget to make a margin/profit of a certain percentage or sum. In Evans' case, you would assume that he budgets to make a loss, year by year - perhaps £6m, perhaps £4m. On the basis that he has rarely broken even, that would make sense. So why, in a year when you find yourself with a windfall from transfer fees, would you not stick to your budget and invest what has come in on top of what is expected, or put it in reserves. |
"The point under discussion was whether a £5m loss last year (as stated in the audited accounts) represents a £5m investment by the company's owner. Which it does. "
No. It doesnt.
Imagine that £5m comprises £4m trading losses, and £1m in writing down the players who have got older. He has not put more cash in or investment more. Though arguably, the book value of the club has reduced by £1m- and his asset is therefore worth somewhat less. You cant call that amount an investment. You are right to note the sponsorship which counts in the other direciton though. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 20:29 - Mar 29 with 746 views | Superfrans |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 19:26 - Mar 29 by sparks |
"The point under discussion was whether a £5m loss last year (as stated in the audited accounts) represents a £5m investment by the company's owner. Which it does. "
No. It doesnt.
Imagine that £5m comprises £4m trading losses, and £1m in writing down the players who have got older. He has not put more cash in or investment more. Though arguably, the book value of the club has reduced by £1m- and his asset is therefore worth somewhat less. You cant call that amount an investment. You are right to note the sponsorship which counts in the other direciton though. |
Yes, that's true. If you write down your assets in that way.
Fair enough, I misunderstood the point.
Whether there would be a significant level of write downs I don't know though. You'd think that as the asset value of certain older players declined, these would be compensated for by the emergence and development of new younger players. To be honest, I don't know how asset value of players is managers and expressed in financial accounts etc. Interesting point though. | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 20:38 - Mar 29 with 739 views | sparks |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 20:29 - Mar 29 by Superfrans |
Yes, that's true. If you write down your assets in that way.
Fair enough, I misunderstood the point.
Whether there would be a significant level of write downs I don't know though. You'd think that as the asset value of certain older players declined, these would be compensated for by the emergence and development of new younger players. To be honest, I don't know how asset value of players is managers and expressed in financial accounts etc. Interesting point though. |
I understand the accounts include a fair chunk of amortisation each year, which contirbutes to the "loss". Not just players presumably.
I recall roughly estimating it, and the tax offsets might well reduce the actual investment, on average, from 7-8m per year to something like 5 or 6 | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| on 21:06 - Mar 29 with 714 views | _ |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 08:15 - Mar 29 by sparks |
A subject your obsessed mind appears to lack the capacity to properly understand. |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 22:28 - Mar 29 with 683 views | Superfrans |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 20:38 - Mar 29 by sparks |
I understand the accounts include a fair chunk of amortisation each year, which contirbutes to the "loss". Not just players presumably.
I recall roughly estimating it, and the tax offsets might well reduce the actual investment, on average, from 7-8m per year to something like 5 or 6 |
I'm not disputing your numbers at all, but that seems like a huge loss every year to attribute to the write down in value of players. Much higher than I would expect on an ongoing basis., | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 22:54 - Mar 29 with 670 views | jaykay |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 10:55 - Mar 28 by Guthrum |
Because it doesn't work.
You can offset profit against losses (not against tax liability). But you're only paying tax on a proportion of those profits. A loss of £1 will offset a profit of £1 and save you 20p in tax. So you've paid out an extra £1 (covering the losses) to save yourself 20p - leaving yourself 80p worse off.
That's helpful if you have unavoidably lossmaking parts of your business. But deliberately making a loss to reduce tax doesn't add up. |
can someone tell me if it is only 20% you can offset against losses. as the more you earn the tax band increases .so wondered if you can claim more if the losses are bigger. |  |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 22:56 - Mar 29 with 664 views | sparks |
Quite. | |
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| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 22:58 - Mar 29 with 659 views | sparks |
| Does anyone not think Evans is using us as some Tax purpose? on 22:54 - Mar 29 by jaykay |
can someone tell me if it is only 20% you can offset against losses. as the more you earn the tax band increases .so wondered if you can claim more if the losses are bigger. |
Its 20% corporation tax. Different to income tax | |
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