| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this 12:09 - Apr 28 with 2258 views | artsbossbeard |
If ME's is going to act like Scrooge McDuck, then I'm fine with Mick staying on.
If ME's splashing the cash, then I'd be happy with some form of Football Director/Young coach set up and it's bye bye Mick. [Post edited 28 Apr 2017 12:11]
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| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:14 - Apr 28 with 2223 views | NeverTellMeTheOdds |
What about the option that if Evans finally gives Mick money to spend this summer, would you be happy or unhappy with that??
I personally think its going to be the Scrooge McDuck option if i'm honest and because of that, like you then I think Mick is probably the best man for the job. |  |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:18 - Apr 28 with 2191 views | The_Romford_Blue |
He won't give anyone money.
If he did, I'd give mick til Christmas and then we reassess. |  |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:19 - Apr 28 with 2187 views | artsbossbeard |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:14 - Apr 28 by NeverTellMeTheOdds |
What about the option that if Evans finally gives Mick money to spend this summer, would you be happy or unhappy with that??
I personally think its going to be the Scrooge McDuck option if i'm honest and because of that, like you then I think Mick is probably the best man for the job. |
Yeah, that's the tricky scenario - I'd prefer to see a different emphasis at the club if we're spending and a new appointment at the helm would certainly represent a fresh start. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:28 - Apr 28 with 2152 views | NeverTellMeTheOdds |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:19 - Apr 28 by artsbossbeard |
Yeah, that's the tricky scenario - I'd prefer to see a different emphasis at the club if we're spending and a new appointment at the helm would certainly represent a fresh start. |
Would be incredibly harsh on Mick if a new manager suddenly comes in and then is given funds.
I to feel as if a fresh approach is badly needed, we need a long term strategy of getting as much of our own youth in the team as possible, adopting our own style and sticking to it and I can realistically only see that with a new manager.
Not sure if I trust Mick to play a decent style & the kids consistently, where as any new manager coming in I would like it to be almost the new managers remit. If we cant compete financially then we need to start developing our youth all the more, looking for gems in the lower leagues etc that we can develop. | |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:33 - Apr 28 with 2127 views | artsbossbeard |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:28 - Apr 28 by NeverTellMeTheOdds |
Would be incredibly harsh on Mick if a new manager suddenly comes in and then is given funds.
I to feel as if a fresh approach is badly needed, we need a long term strategy of getting as much of our own youth in the team as possible, adopting our own style and sticking to it and I can realistically only see that with a new manager.
Not sure if I trust Mick to play a decent style & the kids consistently, where as any new manager coming in I would like it to be almost the new managers remit. If we cant compete financially then we need to start developing our youth all the more, looking for gems in the lower leagues etc that we can develop. |
Fair points indeed and it would be harsh on Mick, agreed.
Also and in this hypothetical world, I'd much prefer that any new manager/director would have the commitment of the board for a reasonable amount of time - no point in sacking it all off if things don't work out as anticipated in season 1 & 2. Hypothetically speaking, of course. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:36 - Apr 28 with 2092 views | J2BLUE |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:18 - Apr 28 by The_Romford_Blue |
He won't give anyone money.
If he did, I'd give mick til Christmas and then we reassess. |
Would you really back him with several million and give him six months? Really, if he's going to be backed (he isn't) he needs a two year contract extension so he's here for the foreseeable future. It would reassure new players and we wouldn't be in the situation of having spent millions and having the new players forced on a new manager. |  |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:39 - Apr 28 with 2071 views | NeverTellMeTheOdds |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:33 - Apr 28 by artsbossbeard |
Fair points indeed and it would be harsh on Mick, agreed.
Also and in this hypothetical world, I'd much prefer that any new manager/director would have the commitment of the board for a reasonable amount of time - no point in sacking it all off if things don't work out as anticipated in season 1 & 2. Hypothetically speaking, of course. |
I genuinely cant make my mind up whether I want to see Mick given a chance with funds or not.
Part of me just wants to draw a line under his time here after an abysmal season and a half of dire football. The other part is curious to see if he could have a real stab at getting us promoted with money.
Again though, would our style improve, would Mick play the younger lads if he is given money-unlikely IMO. But he could possibly get us promoted with some real money to spend which is obviously what most fans want.
Its a tricky one and I think we need to start thinking longer term rather than just playing it by ear season by season as we seem to these days. Does Mick fall into a possible long term strategy at his age though?? | |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 13:49 - Apr 28 with 1951 views | itfcjoe |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:39 - Apr 28 by NeverTellMeTheOdds |
I genuinely cant make my mind up whether I want to see Mick given a chance with funds or not.
Part of me just wants to draw a line under his time here after an abysmal season and a half of dire football. The other part is curious to see if he could have a real stab at getting us promoted with money.
Again though, would our style improve, would Mick play the younger lads if he is given money-unlikely IMO. But he could possibly get us promoted with some real money to spend which is obviously what most fans want.
Its a tricky one and I think we need to start thinking longer term rather than just playing it by ear season by season as we seem to these days. Does Mick fall into a possible long term strategy at his age though?? |
With all due respect to previous points, are there any clubs competing in this league who are regularly playing youngsters from their academy? I just think it's a pipe dream that we can have any success in this league with lots of our own youngsters heavily involved.
We've successfully integrated Kenlock and Emmanuel, Dozzell seems on the cusp and there are some talented players behind them but realistically you need players a bit older 21-22 to come in to have s real impact. The likes of Webster and Ward.
I know it's easy to beat Jick about not playing youngsters, but his record here stacks up with what is going on in this league and how football is changing. |  |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 13:56 - Apr 28 with 1932 views | ClausThomsen |
If ME's gonna act like Scrooge then he won't pay the £1 million it'll cost to remove Mick. |  | | |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:00 - Apr 28 with 1923 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 12:36 - Apr 28 by J2BLUE |
Would you really back him with several million and give him six months? Really, if he's going to be backed (he isn't) he needs a two year contract extension so he's here for the foreseeable future. It would reassure new players and we wouldn't be in the situation of having spent millions and having the new players forced on a new manager. |
By funds, im only talking 4 or 5m over the summer
No improvement by then, perhaps it's time to say 'thanks for the memories mick but it's time to say goodbye'
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:18 - Apr 28 with 1870 views | NeverTellMeTheOdds |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 13:49 - Apr 28 by itfcjoe |
With all due respect to previous points, are there any clubs competing in this league who are regularly playing youngsters from their academy? I just think it's a pipe dream that we can have any success in this league with lots of our own youngsters heavily involved.
We've successfully integrated Kenlock and Emmanuel, Dozzell seems on the cusp and there are some talented players behind them but realistically you need players a bit older 21-22 to come in to have s real impact. The likes of Webster and Ward.
I know it's easy to beat Jick about not playing youngsters, but his record here stacks up with what is going on in this league and how football is changing. |
Don't get me wrong, I am not asking for a starting eleven of academy players but why cant we buck the trend if the academy is working well and we are producing good enough players?
I do think though that now Klug is back in charge of the academy again that we are starting to see the fruits of his labor and it seems criminal not to be integrating more of our academy lads into the first team.
Kenlock has been a revelation this season but I have known that for some time having watched his career closely, Emmanual doesn't seem to have progressed as much this season as I would have expected and has now fallen behind Spence which is unfortunate but that might be down to lack of game time. Dozzell-Mick has deemed it is not the right time to put him in the first team even though he is more than ready and one of the best passers at the club right now-that is purely down to Mick. So that's 3 youngsters being integrated this season and only really Kenlock getting a prolonged run and that's mainly been thrust upon Mick due to injuries, so I think its actually a justified stick to beat Mick personally. Mick would rather play experienced pro's than the youngsters IMO and that definitely doesn't fit in with Evans 5 point plan.
I do agree though that you need a mixture of experience and youth in the Championship, but there is no magic formula in this league either other than throwing tens of millions at it like Newcastle have and they have only just fallen over the line. As we can compete financially then why not take a different approach to the rest? | |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:35 - Apr 28 with 1849 views | itfcjoe |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:18 - Apr 28 by NeverTellMeTheOdds |
Don't get me wrong, I am not asking for a starting eleven of academy players but why cant we buck the trend if the academy is working well and we are producing good enough players?
I do think though that now Klug is back in charge of the academy again that we are starting to see the fruits of his labor and it seems criminal not to be integrating more of our academy lads into the first team.
Kenlock has been a revelation this season but I have known that for some time having watched his career closely, Emmanual doesn't seem to have progressed as much this season as I would have expected and has now fallen behind Spence which is unfortunate but that might be down to lack of game time. Dozzell-Mick has deemed it is not the right time to put him in the first team even though he is more than ready and one of the best passers at the club right now-that is purely down to Mick. So that's 3 youngsters being integrated this season and only really Kenlock getting a prolonged run and that's mainly been thrust upon Mick due to injuries, so I think its actually a justified stick to beat Mick personally. Mick would rather play experienced pro's than the youngsters IMO and that definitely doesn't fit in with Evans 5 point plan.
I do agree though that you need a mixture of experience and youth in the Championship, but there is no magic formula in this league either other than throwing tens of millions at it like Newcastle have and they have only just fallen over the line. As we can compete financially then why not take a different approach to the rest? |
I agree to a certain extent re Mick, and don't think he is the man to bring through kids if that is genuinely going to be our approach - but the Championship is beginning to feel like the PL to me where short termism dictates that giveing youngsters opportunities is difficult.
Kenlock and Emmanuel have both started a decent amount of games, and whilst Kenlock looks very natural and ready to play regularly Emmanuel just doesn't to me. He's not as good going forwards to compensate for his defending which leaves plenty to be desired - Spence looks a cut above to me and is still a good age. Don't forget that bar an injury at QPR Kenlock could have easily started another 10 games.
Doz has struggled in the most part, but needs more time from the bench to get on and effect games. When he's started he's looked a way off and CM is very hard in this league.
Whilst some would've liked those 3 to play more, they've all had ddcfnt opportunities and will be further on for it.
Whilst the academy is producing players again, the crop doing well are still a couple of years away from competing. Hopefully Nydam or Morris can break through next year, Benyu looks as though he will be involved too - that's about as much as can be expected though. | |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:35 - Apr 28 with 1847 views | ClausThomsen |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 13:49 - Apr 28 by itfcjoe |
With all due respect to previous points, are there any clubs competing in this league who are regularly playing youngsters from their academy? I just think it's a pipe dream that we can have any success in this league with lots of our own youngsters heavily involved.
We've successfully integrated Kenlock and Emmanuel, Dozzell seems on the cusp and there are some talented players behind them but realistically you need players a bit older 21-22 to come in to have s real impact. The likes of Webster and Ward.
I know it's easy to beat Jick about not playing youngsters, but his record here stacks up with what is going on in this league and how football is changing. |
The young players need to be playing, Benyu's been doing well on loan and there's no loans outside the window so if Mick isn't going to play Bishop, Nydam, Dozzell etc next season he needs to get them tied up on half season loans. If they aren't playing then their development is going to be stunted regardless. Benyu's surely done enough to play some first team football next season.
Chucking the young players in with the reserve team who haven't been playing and losing to Rotherham isn't helping anyone. And that's the most recent exhibit of MM's "development of youth".
FWIW (nowt) I can't see Andre Dozzell ever being in a MM team, and considering he's the pick of our current crop, and that any success ITFC have ever had has come from integrating youth players, I find this very worrying. He needs to get out on loan next season for his own sake - if MM's still here. | | | |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:41 - Apr 28 with 1831 views | itfcjoe |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:35 - Apr 28 by ClausThomsen |
The young players need to be playing, Benyu's been doing well on loan and there's no loans outside the window so if Mick isn't going to play Bishop, Nydam, Dozzell etc next season he needs to get them tied up on half season loans. If they aren't playing then their development is going to be stunted regardless. Benyu's surely done enough to play some first team football next season.
Chucking the young players in with the reserve team who haven't been playing and losing to Rotherham isn't helping anyone. And that's the most recent exhibit of MM's "development of youth".
FWIW (nowt) I can't see Andre Dozzell ever being in a MM team, and considering he's the pick of our current crop, and that any success ITFC have ever had has come from integrating youth players, I find this very worrying. He needs to get out on loan next season for his own sake - if MM's still here. |
I think people forget how young Dozzell is, he's still effectively in the U18s, when you look at his peers in England youth squads he's way ahead for games played and is doing fine, he needs to kick on (and be given the opportunity to) next year
Nydam is too young to send out Still, it just rarely happens for U18s and his development is best served here.
Benyu has to be involved after his impressive run at Aldershot | |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:44 - Apr 28 with 1818 views | ClausThomsen |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:41 - Apr 28 by itfcjoe |
I think people forget how young Dozzell is, he's still effectively in the U18s, when you look at his peers in England youth squads he's way ahead for games played and is doing fine, he needs to kick on (and be given the opportunity to) next year
Nydam is too young to send out Still, it just rarely happens for U18s and his development is best served here.
Benyu has to be involved after his impressive run at Aldershot |
I just can't think of any Dozzell-like player in a Mick McCarthy team.
He's hardly Karl Henry!
Absolutely agree on Benyu, weird he played for Tottenham in the summer though, weird in that we allowed it - a loan to League One till January with the 24 hr recall should be the minimum Benyu deserves. [Post edited 28 Apr 2017 14:46]
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:47 - Apr 28 with 1803 views | NeverTellMeTheOdds |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:35 - Apr 28 by ClausThomsen |
The young players need to be playing, Benyu's been doing well on loan and there's no loans outside the window so if Mick isn't going to play Bishop, Nydam, Dozzell etc next season he needs to get them tied up on half season loans. If they aren't playing then their development is going to be stunted regardless. Benyu's surely done enough to play some first team football next season.
Chucking the young players in with the reserve team who haven't been playing and losing to Rotherham isn't helping anyone. And that's the most recent exhibit of MM's "development of youth".
FWIW (nowt) I can't see Andre Dozzell ever being in a MM team, and considering he's the pick of our current crop, and that any success ITFC have ever had has come from integrating youth players, I find this very worrying. He needs to get out on loan next season for his own sake - if MM's still here. |
Genuinely excited by the prospect of Benyu but its a shame that he had to fall out with Mick, be sent out on loan to prove his ability rather than given his chance here. Hope that Mick gives him a chance in pre-season and he can take it.
Have heard a few stories of Mick falling out with the youngsters though in his time here which does worry me if Mick is to stay here for another season.
Agree that I think Bishop and probably Dozzell could do with going out on loan if Mick is not going to play them. Same probably with Emmanual but as we are going to be incredibly light on numbers until reinforcements come in this summer then Mick might not have any choice but to use a few at least in pre-season.
I would just much rather our manager wants to play our youth and believes in them than a manager that is not as invested in the youth. I remember hearing Burley speak about that he took immense pride in bringing a younger player through into the first team and seeing them flourish, I do genuinely wonder if Mick feels that? | |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:57 - Apr 28 with 1777 views | itfcjoe |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:44 - Apr 28 by ClausThomsen |
I just can't think of any Dozzell-like player in a Mick McCarthy team.
He's hardly Karl Henry!
Absolutely agree on Benyu, weird he played for Tottenham in the summer though, weird in that we allowed it - a loan to League One till January with the 24 hr recall should be the minimum Benyu deserves. [Post edited 28 Apr 2017 14:46]
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For all talk of Dino-Mick, he has adapted over the years or wouldn't still be earning a good living from the game. Doz will be a year better next year, stronger and able to run more whilst still being technically good - those things are needed in this league. Agree with stalk of him in a 3, and hope we can build on recent better performances to do that.
From what I hear Benyu has had a bad attitude from well before Mick, but seems to be going in right direction now and could be a big player for us if he can have a good per season.
With regards to loans, you can't put recalls in loans to FL clubs any more - has to be window to window and that's why he went to on league after window shut. | |
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| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:58 - Apr 28 with 1767 views | ClausThomsen |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:47 - Apr 28 by NeverTellMeTheOdds |
Genuinely excited by the prospect of Benyu but its a shame that he had to fall out with Mick, be sent out on loan to prove his ability rather than given his chance here. Hope that Mick gives him a chance in pre-season and he can take it.
Have heard a few stories of Mick falling out with the youngsters though in his time here which does worry me if Mick is to stay here for another season.
Agree that I think Bishop and probably Dozzell could do with going out on loan if Mick is not going to play them. Same probably with Emmanual but as we are going to be incredibly light on numbers until reinforcements come in this summer then Mick might not have any choice but to use a few at least in pre-season.
I would just much rather our manager wants to play our youth and believes in them than a manager that is not as invested in the youth. I remember hearing Burley speak about that he took immense pride in bringing a younger player through into the first team and seeing them flourish, I do genuinely wonder if Mick feels that? |
Burley's plan was outlined and clear to see on the pitch (and on teletext). Today, our 5 point plan seems arbitrary and to be honest, written on a fag packet.
If you look at the players Burley brought through in his career it's highly impressive. Bale, Huddlestone, Walcott etc outside of what he did here.
As a club, it's been our only means of real success. Our reputation as club that plays youth players won't last much longer if we don't do it anymore. And that would be disastrous imo.
It won't happen with MM unless he gets a bop on the head or submits to a shaman. | | | |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 15:07 - Apr 28 with 1737 views | ClausThomsen |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:57 - Apr 28 by itfcjoe |
For all talk of Dino-Mick, he has adapted over the years or wouldn't still be earning a good living from the game. Doz will be a year better next year, stronger and able to run more whilst still being technically good - those things are needed in this league. Agree with stalk of him in a 3, and hope we can build on recent better performances to do that.
From what I hear Benyu has had a bad attitude from well before Mick, but seems to be going in right direction now and could be a big player for us if he can have a good per season.
With regards to loans, you can't put recalls in loans to FL clubs any more - has to be window to window and that's why he went to on league after window shut. |
Didn't know that about loans, but surely any youth players that won't play need to farmed out on loan before the window shuts. The windows unfortunately are part of the deal now and we need to adapt. We should also have a good shortlist of replacements for players if someone wants to leave at the last minute.
We won't though.
Mick had adapted, the playoff season was a young team. He's definitely reverted since then though. I was skeptical at best at his appointment but he won me over in the playoff season. Playing 3 strikers, Mings was chucked in and thrived, Bishop likewise, Bialkowski a superb keeper. Mick's balls were massive that season and it paid off. | | | |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 15:07 - Apr 28 with 1735 views | NeverTellMeTheOdds |
| My take on next season - I know you've been waiting for this on 14:58 - Apr 28 by ClausThomsen |
Burley's plan was outlined and clear to see on the pitch (and on teletext). Today, our 5 point plan seems arbitrary and to be honest, written on a fag packet.
If you look at the players Burley brought through in his career it's highly impressive. Bale, Huddlestone, Walcott etc outside of what he did here.
As a club, it's been our only means of real success. Our reputation as club that plays youth players won't last much longer if we don't do it anymore. And that would be disastrous imo.
It won't happen with MM unless he gets a bop on the head or submits to a shaman. |
Agree with all of that, well said :) | |
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