| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:03 - May 2 with 1973 views | Bluefish |
Can you define rich? I am not rich but I am not in austerity. The closest I ever got to austerity was after the last Labour government.
Which world is better
A world where jobs are created for the poor
Or
A world where the poor get handouts that aren't sustainable |  |
|  |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:14 - May 2 with 1944 views | tcblue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:03 - May 2 by Bluefish |
Can you define rich? I am not rich but I am not in austerity. The closest I ever got to austerity was after the last Labour government.
Which world is better
A world where jobs are created for the poor
Or
A world where the poor get handouts that aren't sustainable |
Not sure why that's a binary choice, I'd prefer a third option where there is no such huge divide and everyone starts at least from a similar baseline wealth. This is entirely possible except there's a top strata who rely on the system of economic classes to always look below them with contempt or pity, rather than questioning the system above them.
Perpetuating this charade by continuing to demonise isn't helping at all. When the poor get welfare to help them to not die, it is a hand out, yet when big corporations and the 1%s diddle tax schemes it's a tax break. |  | | |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:20 - May 2 with 1927 views | J2BLUE |
Is it austerity or have we collectively been living an unsustainable debt fuelled lifestyle which can't go on? |  |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:22 - May 2 with 1913 views | Bluefish |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:14 - May 2 by tcblue |
Not sure why that's a binary choice, I'd prefer a third option where there is no such huge divide and everyone starts at least from a similar baseline wealth. This is entirely possible except there's a top strata who rely on the system of economic classes to always look below them with contempt or pity, rather than questioning the system above them.
Perpetuating this charade by continuing to demonise isn't helping at all. When the poor get welfare to help them to not die, it is a hand out, yet when big corporations and the 1%s diddle tax schemes it's a tax break. |
I'd like a unicorn and for the referendum to have not happened but........ | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:24 - May 2 with 1898 views | StokieBlue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:14 - May 2 by tcblue |
Not sure why that's a binary choice, I'd prefer a third option where there is no such huge divide and everyone starts at least from a similar baseline wealth. This is entirely possible except there's a top strata who rely on the system of economic classes to always look below them with contempt or pity, rather than questioning the system above them.
Perpetuating this charade by continuing to demonise isn't helping at all. When the poor get welfare to help them to not die, it is a hand out, yet when big corporations and the 1%s diddle tax schemes it's a tax break. |
What if you start being from a poor family, work hard or are very clever and do well in your life and you leave a lot of money to your kids.
Should they then not be allowed this in order to maintain the similar baseline starting place? Or are we only talking about the super-rich which I agree is totally different. It's hard to know as McDonnell essentially decided the other week that anyone who earned more than him was rich and should be taxed more.
This is interesting:
"Not sure why that's a binary choice, I'd prefer a third option where there is no such huge divide and everyone starts at least from a similar baseline wealth. This is entirely possible"
How is it entirely possible?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:25 - May 2 with 1893 views | tcblue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:22 - May 2 by Bluefish |
I'd like a unicorn and for the referendum to have not happened but........ |
That's the spirit, the system is broken, long live the system. | | | |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:26 - May 2 with 1888 views | StokieBlue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:20 - May 2 by J2BLUE |
Is it austerity or have we collectively been living an unsustainable debt fuelled lifestyle which can't go on? |
An extremely relevant point, nearly every country in the world lives outside it's means, the UK are certainly a member of that club.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:26 - May 2 with 1891 views | Bluefish |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:20 - May 2 by J2BLUE |
Is it austerity or have we collectively been living an unsustainable debt fuelled lifestyle which can't go on? |
Well I certainly haven't. I save for everything I want to buy. My first mortgage was 102% but I didn't take any further debt so that I knew I could keep paying it. Around that time under Blair everyone was encourage how wonderful the world was and debts and loans were all over the place. It wasn't sustainable, few jobs but everyone has a massive new tv and new sofas.
Austerity is a good thing if it means people are careful. Living beyond our means puts far more people into food banks | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:27 - May 2 with 1868 views | StokieBlue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:26 - May 2 by Bluefish |
Well I certainly haven't. I save for everything I want to buy. My first mortgage was 102% but I didn't take any further debt so that I knew I could keep paying it. Around that time under Blair everyone was encourage how wonderful the world was and debts and loans were all over the place. It wasn't sustainable, few jobs but everyone has a massive new tv and new sofas.
Austerity is a good thing if it means people are careful. Living beyond our means puts far more people into food banks |
I think he might have meant on a national level, that's certainly what I meant in my reply.
We want all these public services which everyone agrees are lovely but our national income doesn't cover the cost of them.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:29 - May 2 with 1857 views | J2BLUE |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:26 - May 2 by Bluefish |
Well I certainly haven't. I save for everything I want to buy. My first mortgage was 102% but I didn't take any further debt so that I knew I could keep paying it. Around that time under Blair everyone was encourage how wonderful the world was and debts and loans were all over the place. It wasn't sustainable, few jobs but everyone has a massive new tv and new sofas.
Austerity is a good thing if it means people are careful. Living beyond our means puts far more people into food banks |
You are part of this country which is massively in debt.
Personal debt is a bit different. I completely agree about saving for everything. I have a budgeting spreadsheet and save in advance for everything I need. I don't like debt although it can be useful if it's 0% on purchases for a decent length of time and you're staggering the cost of something you need and can afford. | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:29 - May 2 with 1855 views | Bluefish |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:27 - May 2 by StokieBlue |
I think he might have meant on a national level, that's certainly what I meant in my reply.
We want all these public services which everyone agrees are lovely but our national income doesn't cover the cost of them.
SB |
Of course it pays for them! We are going to not cut the capital gains tax so we can have everything that we want and be debt free | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:30 - May 2 with 1852 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:03 - May 2 by Bluefish |
Can you define rich? I am not rich but I am not in austerity. The closest I ever got to austerity was after the last Labour government.
Which world is better
A world where jobs are created for the poor
Or
A world where the poor get handouts that aren't sustainable |
Unless you are speculating on the markets for a global financial institution you are probably not benefitting from QE and for this thread not regarded as rich. If you or your family rely on any public services you are affected by austerity.....did you even read the link, he paid taxes for his working life and now his family are paying their bit for keeping global capitalism afloat because he died 5 weeks too late ! |  |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:32 - May 2 with 1837 views | Bluefish |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:30 - May 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Unless you are speculating on the markets for a global financial institution you are probably not benefitting from QE and for this thread not regarded as rich. If you or your family rely on any public services you are affected by austerity.....did you even read the link, he paid taxes for his working life and now his family are paying their bit for keeping global capitalism afloat because he died 5 weeks too late ! |
Didnt even notice a link but I didn't start by responding to that so probably explains the confusion. | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:34 - May 2 with 1822 views | tcblue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:24 - May 2 by StokieBlue |
What if you start being from a poor family, work hard or are very clever and do well in your life and you leave a lot of money to your kids.
Should they then not be allowed this in order to maintain the similar baseline starting place? Or are we only talking about the super-rich which I agree is totally different. It's hard to know as McDonnell essentially decided the other week that anyone who earned more than him was rich and should be taxed more.
This is interesting:
"Not sure why that's a binary choice, I'd prefer a third option where there is no such huge divide and everyone starts at least from a similar baseline wealth. This is entirely possible"
How is it entirely possible?
SB |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
Economically, the model could work, unfortunately what would get in the way would be those whom we handed the true reigns of the capitalism we signed up to.
I know you'll fundamentally disagree with this, I respect your views on these things and know I won't be able to convince you of it, but I do think it's one of the bigger shames of democracy that we don't really spend much time thinking outside of tweaking a status quo system which may not be optimal for society as a whole. | | | |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:34 - May 2 with 1816 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:26 - May 2 by Bluefish |
Well I certainly haven't. I save for everything I want to buy. My first mortgage was 102% but I didn't take any further debt so that I knew I could keep paying it. Around that time under Blair everyone was encourage how wonderful the world was and debts and loans were all over the place. It wasn't sustainable, few jobs but everyone has a massive new tv and new sofas.
Austerity is a good thing if it means people are careful. Living beyond our means puts far more people into food banks |
How sustainable is that mortgage debt going to be if interest rates get above the region of 0% ? | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:37 - May 2 with 1799 views | Bluefish |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:34 - May 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
How sustainable is that mortgage debt going to be if interest rates get above the region of 0% ? |
I was paying around 5 or 6% back then
I now have a 65% mortgage | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:42 - May 2 with 1776 views | StokieBlue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:34 - May 2 by tcblue |
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
Economically, the model could work, unfortunately what would get in the way would be those whom we handed the true reigns of the capitalism we signed up to.
I know you'll fundamentally disagree with this, I respect your views on these things and know I won't be able to convince you of it, but I do think it's one of the bigger shames of democracy that we don't really spend much time thinking outside of tweaking a status quo system which may not be optimal for society as a whole. |
Universal Basic Income is an interesting idea and I agree it could work but it's not designed to do what you are saying in the schemes I have seen (Holland for example). In those (and I believe in the UK scheme) it was muted as a replacement for the welfare state which is simpler to administer and would ensure everyone has money to live.
However it does mean everyone so even the rich would get this money. Given this how does it achieve the re-balancing you are talking about?
In general though I think it certainly could work and I have no objections to UBI. I believe the last estimates of a UK version put the cost substantially higher than the current cost of the welfare state though.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:50 - May 2 with 1751 views | Clapham_Junction |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:27 - May 2 by StokieBlue |
I think he might have meant on a national level, that's certainly what I meant in my reply.
We want all these public services which everyone agrees are lovely but our national income doesn't cover the cost of them.
SB |
Our national income far exceeds the cost of public services. The issue is that we don't allocate enough of it to them.
A secondary issue is that they are made more expensive than necessary by policies such as privatisation. |  | | |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:55 - May 2 with 1729 views | tcblue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:42 - May 2 by StokieBlue |
Universal Basic Income is an interesting idea and I agree it could work but it's not designed to do what you are saying in the schemes I have seen (Holland for example). In those (and I believe in the UK scheme) it was muted as a replacement for the welfare state which is simpler to administer and would ensure everyone has money to live.
However it does mean everyone so even the rich would get this money. Given this how does it achieve the re-balancing you are talking about?
In general though I think it certainly could work and I have no objections to UBI. I believe the last estimates of a UK version put the cost substantially higher than the current cost of the welfare state though.
SB |
My point isn't really about wealth redistribution as it is freedoms from debt, be that economic debt or social guilt debt (from 'hand outs').
There would be those wanting to earn much more than UBI, great, crack on and thank you. But should that be seen as any more or less noble than someone who would want to volunteer what would be their 'working' time on their own passions which might not come with economic benefit but would benefit humanity in other ways (even if that's restricted to just themselves)?
I'm in danger of going Full Brand here and for that I apologise. It's just coming up to a GE where I feel absolutely no choice and no hope provided, and I'm just sick to death of tactical voting, which feels like an artificial construct to keep the dissenting plebs happy. | | | |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 08:33 - May 3 with 1555 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:55 - May 2 by tcblue |
My point isn't really about wealth redistribution as it is freedoms from debt, be that economic debt or social guilt debt (from 'hand outs').
There would be those wanting to earn much more than UBI, great, crack on and thank you. But should that be seen as any more or less noble than someone who would want to volunteer what would be their 'working' time on their own passions which might not come with economic benefit but would benefit humanity in other ways (even if that's restricted to just themselves)?
I'm in danger of going Full Brand here and for that I apologise. It's just coming up to a GE where I feel absolutely no choice and no hope provided, and I'm just sick to death of tactical voting, which feels like an artificial construct to keep the dissenting plebs happy. |
There has been considerable research done to show that if the QE money had been given to individuals rather than financial institutions it would have had a far greater beneficial effect on the real economy (as trickle down does not/has not work) rather than simply making a handful of gamblers stupidly wealthy.
Personally I think we need a whole new paradigm (less stuff for the sake of it, stuff that lasts, steady state, post growth....) but this would be better alongside the ideas you have suggested. Local currencies might have some place too as they encourage local spending and circulation of money . | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 08:48 - May 3 with 1546 views | TIB |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:20 - May 2 by J2BLUE |
Is it austerity or have we collectively been living an unsustainable debt fuelled lifestyle which can't go on? |
This is spot on. |  |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 08:51 - May 3 with 1538 views | StokieBlue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 08:33 - May 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
There has been considerable research done to show that if the QE money had been given to individuals rather than financial institutions it would have had a far greater beneficial effect on the real economy (as trickle down does not/has not work) rather than simply making a handful of gamblers stupidly wealthy.
Personally I think we need a whole new paradigm (less stuff for the sake of it, stuff that lasts, steady state, post growth....) but this would be better alongside the ideas you have suggested. Local currencies might have some place too as they encourage local spending and circulation of money . |
That is not entirely true. I suspect the things you read say that but there is plenty of mainstream literature from respected economists which says exactly the opposite.
Can't go into the finer details now but I doubt you'd read it anyway.
You're essentially saying you want the government to give you something for nothing, I am not really surprised.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 08:52 - May 3 with 1528 views | StokieBlue |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:55 - May 2 by tcblue |
My point isn't really about wealth redistribution as it is freedoms from debt, be that economic debt or social guilt debt (from 'hand outs').
There would be those wanting to earn much more than UBI, great, crack on and thank you. But should that be seen as any more or less noble than someone who would want to volunteer what would be their 'working' time on their own passions which might not come with economic benefit but would benefit humanity in other ways (even if that's restricted to just themselves)?
I'm in danger of going Full Brand here and for that I apologise. It's just coming up to a GE where I feel absolutely no choice and no hope provided, and I'm just sick to death of tactical voting, which feels like an artificial construct to keep the dissenting plebs happy. |
As I said, I have no problem with UBI and think it's a good idea if it can be funded.
It would also promote entrepreneurialism as people would have money to survive whilst they developed their ideas.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 08:58 - May 3 with 1515 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 23:20 - May 2 by J2BLUE |
Is it austerity or have we collectively been living an unsustainable debt fuelled lifestyle which can't go on? |
It is austerity and yes ! However, the powers that be seem to want things all ways......keeping quiet that all money is created by the issuance of debt (97% of it in our economy by private banks and then leveraged by them) and then encouraging us to take on debt at every turn (education, training as nurse etc,mortgage, car....) regarded as good debt and the only supposedly bad debt is the government stuff used on public services! We are being royally fleeced and spun a series of conflicting stories. Cognitive dissonance at every turn....the Emperor has no clothes! | |
| |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 09:02 - May 3 with 1509 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| QE for the rich, austerity for the rest of us..... on 08:51 - May 3 by StokieBlue |
That is not entirely true. I suspect the things you read say that but there is plenty of mainstream literature from respected economists which says exactly the opposite.
Can't go into the finer details now but I doubt you'd read it anyway.
You're essentially saying you want the government to give you something for nothing, I am not really surprised.
SB |
Is it then partly true, I enjoy reading so feel free. Have you read the wealth of information at http://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/advanced/how-quantitative-easing-works/ | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
