| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? 07:55 - May 24 with 17612 views | Herbivore |
All of the terrorist attacks perpetrated in the UK this century have been carried out by people born and raised here. We really need to start asking some hard questions about why it is that people born and raised in the UK are drawn towards killing their fellow citizens in large numbers. It's too easy to just blame religion, there are hundreds of thousands (possibly over a million?) of UK citizens of the Muslim faith who would never consider taking another life. We can't look for simplistic answers anymore, this is a complex problem and unless we tackle the underlying causes of young Brits being susceptible to radical ideas we will never make any progress. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:27 - May 25 with 1447 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:10 - May 25 by Herbivore |
And so the bomber and the likes of Benters have that in common with each other. Interesting. |
Indeed, but your thinking is also behind the times. Current thinking following the Lacey report is that people shouldn't be pressured into conforming to a "British" identity. |  | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:29 - May 25 with 1446 views | Herbivore |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:13 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
There is no doubt they are British but unfortunately there are a number of British Muslims who make little effort to integrate.
As I said yesterday, that is a two way street and we should be doing all we can to help them integrate and not feel alienated. Having British Muslims in positions of aiputhority is a positive step but for too many British Muslims the strict adherence to a religion that is still being too literally interpreted puts up barriers between the two communities.
This was highlighted by the Channel 4 News survey that was commissioned to get a better understanding of British Muslims.
Some good the finding were quite worrying:
52% do not believe that homosexuality should be legal in Britain
23% support the introduction of Sharia Law.
32% refuse to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet
39% agree that “wives should always obey their husbands”
Those views are completely at odds with our more liberal attitudes in the United Kingdom. How do you get people to fully integrate and participate as British citizens whilst holding the above abhorrent views. |
I imagine there are white Brits who would support some of those views, certainly homophobia is not exclusively a Muslim issue. There's also a large number of white Brits who support the death penalty, which is barbaric. Do you consider them to be anti British values? | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:30 - May 25 with 1433 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:26 - May 25 by ThePitBoss |
19% of British muslims have sympathy with jihadists. Just throwing it out there. 1 in 5. |
And we have to find out why? What causes you British men to feel this way.
As Dan rightly points out indoctrination is a problem. How do we stop it? |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:34 - May 25 with 1425 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:26 - May 25 by ThePitBoss |
19% of British muslims have sympathy with jihadists. Just throwing it out there. 1 in 5. |
In reality, 99% of British Muslims have NO sympathy for them at.
They are as much a British person as you are. And you hate that idea but it's true |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:38 - May 25 with 1418 views | No9 |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:13 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
There is no doubt they are British but unfortunately there are a number of British Muslims who make little effort to integrate.
As I said yesterday, that is a two way street and we should be doing all we can to help them integrate and not feel alienated. Having British Muslims in positions of aiputhority is a positive step but for too many British Muslims the strict adherence to a religion that is still being too literally interpreted puts up barriers between the two communities.
This was highlighted by the Channel 4 News survey that was commissioned to get a better understanding of British Muslims.
Some good the finding were quite worrying:
52% do not believe that homosexuality should be legal in Britain
23% support the introduction of Sharia Law.
32% refuse to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet
39% agree that “wives should always obey their husbands”
Those views are completely at odds with our more liberal attitudes in the United Kingdom. How do you get people to fully integrate and participate as British citizens whilst holding the above abhorrent views. |
"Having British Muslims in positions of aiputhority is a positive step "
Maybe not?
Have a look at countires where they would not be allowed to have these positions, even property or run business. |  | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:38 - May 25 with 1408 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:29 - May 25 by Herbivore |
I imagine there are white Brits who would support some of those views, certainly homophobia is not exclusively a Muslim issue. There's also a large number of white Brits who support the death penalty, which is barbaric. Do you consider them to be anti British values? |
I didn't day that homophobia is exclusively a Muslim issue but I don't believe that over half of white Brits think homosexuality should be illegal.
It's true that just under 50% if British people support capital punishment but the death penalty is just one aspect of Sharia law which. Giving more rights to men over women is a continuing thread throughout Sharia law and that most definitely is incompatible with British values.
You have dealt with the issue of homophobia and sharia law but not the fact that "32% refuse to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet". This is a worrying statistic. We've been taking the puss out of God in this country for as long as I can remember. I think this is a worrying statistic.
Edit. And I don't think we can ever get to the bottom of this problem if we can't have full and frank debate without the need for yes but what about the white Brits who think this or what about the white Brits who think that.
At the moment we have a far bigger problem with Home grown Islamist terror that we do white supremacists. So we need to be discussing the British Muslim community and how we can stop Brits killing Brits as the title of the list suggests, [Post edited 25 May 2017 8:45]
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:38 - May 25 with 1416 views | Herbivore |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:27 - May 25 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Indeed, but your thinking is also behind the times. Current thinking following the Lacey report is that people shouldn't be pressured into conforming to a "British" identity. |
I don't disagree with that. The point of this thread is to question why people born and raised in the UK are committing these kind of atrocities in this country. I don't really subscribe to the idea of a homogenous British identity or set of shared values. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:40 - May 25 with 1409 views | hype313 |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:34 - May 25 by The_Romford_Blue |
In reality, 99% of British Muslims have NO sympathy for them at.
They are as much a British person as you are. And you hate that idea but it's true |
Quite, but there is an issue with Islam, and until people start talking about it then we will constantly go around in circles tip toeing around the issue.
I have no doubt the majority of Muslims are peaceful loving, caring citizens, but there is a dark part of Islam which has taken it's hold on young impressionable men.
We rightly don't tarnish Christianity with the KKK or Anders Breikvik, and we shouldn't tarnish the Muslim community with the same brush, but to constantly skip around the fact that Islam isn't the issue, it's just nutters going around spreading terror, then this will never end. [Post edited 25 May 2017 8:43]
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:41 - May 25 with 1408 views | bluelagos |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:30 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
And we have to find out why? What causes you British men to feel this way.
As Dan rightly points out indoctrination is a problem. How do we stop it? |
That is indeed the key question. Fiik the answer, and fii can even see a chink of light.
I guess we need to be way more effective in dealing with (arresting, charging imprisoning) those who indoctrinate those who go onto commit acts like we witnessed on Monday. Are the existing laws adequate? Is the police resourcing adequate? Both valid questions. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:45 - May 25 with 1402 views | Steve_M |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:40 - May 25 by hype313 |
Quite, but there is an issue with Islam, and until people start talking about it then we will constantly go around in circles tip toeing around the issue.
I have no doubt the majority of Muslims are peaceful loving, caring citizens, but there is a dark part of Islam which has taken it's hold on young impressionable men.
We rightly don't tarnish Christianity with the KKK or Anders Breikvik, and we shouldn't tarnish the Muslim community with the same brush, but to constantly skip around the fact that Islam isn't the issue, it's just nutters going around spreading terror, then this will never end. [Post edited 25 May 2017 8:43]
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Yes, it's as unhelpful as either "all Muslims are terrorists" or "this is all because of Western foreign policy". All three 'observations' are trite and cliched.
This isn't an issue easily solved but the first step is to understand that the World is more nuanced and complicated than some people think it is. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:52 - May 25 with 1377 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:38 - May 25 by No9 |
"Having British Muslims in positions of aiputhority is a positive step "
Maybe not?
Have a look at countires where they would not be allowed to have these positions, even property or run business. |
You don't think having British Muslims in positions of authority is a positive step towards better intergration?
Why? | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:52 - May 25 with 1378 views | No9 |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:45 - May 25 by Steve_M |
Yes, it's as unhelpful as either "all Muslims are terrorists" or "this is all because of Western foreign policy". All three 'observations' are trite and cliched.
This isn't an issue easily solved but the first step is to understand that the World is more nuanced and complicated than some people think it is. |
"This isn't an issue easily solved but the first step is to understand that the World is more nuanced and complicated than some people think it is."
One of the wisest & most sensible comments this week | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 25 with 1361 views | ThePitBoss |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:30 - May 25 by GlasgowBlue |
And we have to find out why? What causes you British men to feel this way.
As Dan rightly points out indoctrination is a problem. How do we stop it? |
CCTV in all mosques? |  | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:04 - May 25 with 1333 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:38 - May 25 by Herbivore |
I don't disagree with that. The point of this thread is to question why people born and raised in the UK are committing these kind of atrocities in this country. I don't really subscribe to the idea of a homogenous British identity or set of shared values. |
You are missing the point. The point is they aren't British and it's racist to consider someone to be British just because they are born and raised in the UK | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:05 - May 25 with 1330 views | artsbossbeard |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 25 by ThePitBoss |
CCTV in all mosques? |
George Orwell was only a few years out. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:07 - May 25 with 1320 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 25 by ThePitBoss |
CCTV in all mosques? |
well if they have nothing to hide | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:09 - May 25 with 1309 views | noggin |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:07 - May 25 by taximan |
well if they have nothing to hide |
Yeah, because that will stop the radicalisation. Slaps forhead. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:11 - May 25 with 1300 views | noggin |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:04 - May 25 by FrowsyArmLarry |
You are missing the point. The point is they aren't British and it's racist to consider someone to be British just because they are born and raised in the UK |
WTF? | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:14 - May 25 with 1285 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:09 - May 25 by noggin |
Yeah, because that will stop the radicalisation. Slaps forhead. |
it may cut off one possible avenue of it
every little helps | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:15 - May 25 with 1283 views | Steve_M |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:04 - May 25 by FrowsyArmLarry |
You are missing the point. The point is they aren't British and it's racist to consider someone to be British just because they are born and raised in the UK |
https://www.gov.uk/browse/citizenship/citizenship | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:18 - May 25 with 1271 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
The far left consider that to be a racist and divisive tool | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:28 - May 25 with 1249 views | No9 |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:04 - May 25 by FrowsyArmLarry |
You are missing the point. The point is they aren't British and it's racist to consider someone to be British just because they are born and raised in the UK |
You must remember some of these people are 3rd & 4th generation, their grandparents came here in the early 1950 and were given British passports by the government of the day.
Handing out British passports willy nilly was not stopped until action by Harold Wilson circa 1977 | | | |
| on 09:31 - May 25 with 1242 views | _ |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:04 - May 25 by FrowsyArmLarry |
You are missing the point. The point is they aren't British and it's racist to consider someone to be British just because they are born and raised in the UK |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:32 - May 25 with 1224 views | No9 |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:18 - May 25 by FrowsyArmLarry |
The far left consider that to be a racist and divisive tool |
& what is the view of UKip & the right on this subject? | | | |
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