| I just wonder.... 18:47 - Jul 14 with 6360 views | RimmersBrace |
Whether Luke Chambers may be leaving us after all. |  | | |  |
| I just wonder.... on 19:09 - Jul 14 with 5782 views | NoCanariesAllowed |
Yes. He will leave.
As will Bart.
And Webster. And McGoldrick.
And all the squad. They'll all leave. Everybody leaves eventually.
Even Dean Bowditch. |  | | |
| I just wonder.... on 19:21 - Jul 14 with 5721 views | gingerbond |
What makes you think that? |  | | |
| I just wonder.... on 21:04 - Jul 14 with 5539 views | Pilgrimblue |
Very much doubt it. Loanees are temporary and can be called back at short notice. Taylor hasn't been mentioned so is he in or out?
Our defence will take some sorting but with so many poor games before start we'll not know best formation for some weeks. Chambers will be key to all this so he'll be staying until 2018 at least IMO. |  | | |
| I just wonder.... on 21:16 - Jul 14 with 5499 views | christiand |
| I just wonder.... on 21:04 - Jul 14 by Pilgrimblue |
Very much doubt it. Loanees are temporary and can be called back at short notice. Taylor hasn't been mentioned so is he in or out?
Our defence will take some sorting but with so many poor games before start we'll not know best formation for some weeks. Chambers will be key to all this so he'll be staying until 2018 at least IMO. |
I have to admit that I was really impressed with Chambers' attitude last season, especially after the debacle of his contract, which was poorly handled by the club. However, if Taylor proves his fitness who is the better defender? For me, it's Steven Taylor. He'd improve us defensively and he is an organiser which would help Webster and Smith to develop as players too. |  |
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| I just wonder.... on 21:40 - Jul 14 with 5423 views | patrickswell |
He will be our next manager. |  | | |
| I just wonder.... on 21:42 - Jul 14 with 5412 views | tcblue |
No. Captain. Of course, limited at RB, but he's head and shoulders the leader of the team. | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 21:50 - Jul 14 with 5381 views | christiand |
| I just wonder.... on 21:42 - Jul 14 by tcblue |
No. Captain. Of course, limited at RB, but he's head and shoulders the leader of the team. |
Unfortunately, that's how MM will see it too. Sentiment needs to go out the window. If you pitch Chambers against Taylor with both of them fully fit - Who would you prefer in the starting line up and who is the better player? For all Chambers bravado, he hasn't got the quality or calibre that Taylor has as a centre back. I'd have Taylor over Chambers every time and I'd appoint him as captain too. All ifs and buts, but let's not forget Chambers can't do no wrong in MM's eyes even if he has a better defender currently trying to earn a contract and prove his fitness. | |
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| I just wonder.... on 21:55 - Jul 14 with 5361 views | tcblue |
| I just wonder.... on 21:50 - Jul 14 by christiand |
Unfortunately, that's how MM will see it too. Sentiment needs to go out the window. If you pitch Chambers against Taylor with both of them fully fit - Who would you prefer in the starting line up and who is the better player? For all Chambers bravado, he hasn't got the quality or calibre that Taylor has as a centre back. I'd have Taylor over Chambers every time and I'd appoint him as captain too. All ifs and buts, but let's not forget Chambers can't do no wrong in MM's eyes even if he has a better defender currently trying to earn a contract and prove his fitness. |
Yeah but you can't separate it like that. Taylor probably is the better player at his peak, but A that doesn't seem to happen regularly and B the link between the manager and the pitch is enormously important, all feelings towards MM you may have aside. | | | |
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| I just wonder.... on 22:11 - Jul 14 with 5320 views | christiand |
| I just wonder.... on 21:55 - Jul 14 by tcblue |
Yeah but you can't separate it like that. Taylor probably is the better player at his peak, but A that doesn't seem to happen regularly and B the link between the manager and the pitch is enormously important, all feelings towards MM you may have aside. |
If Taylor is fit, he is the better player IMO. Why can't he do the job of having that connection with the manager and what's going on on the pitch? After all, he was captain at a bigger club than us at Newcastle United and he is a leader on the pitch, like Chambers, but with better pedigree. | |
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| I just wonder.... on 22:16 - Jul 14 with 5305 views | braveblue |
Hope so. | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 22:17 - Jul 14 with 5296 views | tcblue |
| I just wonder.... on 22:11 - Jul 14 by christiand |
If Taylor is fit, he is the better player IMO. Why can't he do the job of having that connection with the manager and what's going on on the pitch? After all, he was captain at a bigger club than us at Newcastle United and he is a leader on the pitch, like Chambers, but with better pedigree. |
He might be able to, I'm not suggesting he can't. But that won't happen without building the trust with Mick, which he can't really have yet.
For me, that's two big hurdles for him to overcome. Would be great to have genuine competition for the armband, Chambers though is club captain, and he's very good at it (imo). I think you're possibly denigrating the importance of that. | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 22:28 - Jul 14 with 5261 views | christiand |
| I just wonder.... on 22:17 - Jul 14 by tcblue |
He might be able to, I'm not suggesting he can't. But that won't happen without building the trust with Mick, which he can't really have yet.
For me, that's two big hurdles for him to overcome. Would be great to have genuine competition for the armband, Chambers though is club captain, and he's very good at it (imo). I think you're possibly denigrating the importance of that. |
Sentiment and emotion needs to be taken out the decision by MM and he needs to look carefully and professionally at who would bring the most to the team. Yes it would be a tough decision, but that's why MM is paid the salary he does. Chambers can't be in the side based on him being the club captain, especially if their is a stronger alternative, a better player and defender in Taylor on the sidelines. Football, as you know TCblue, is about opinions: you prefer Chambers and I prefer Taylor, but if Taylor can't prove his fitness this discussion is pointless. | |
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| on 22:28 - Jul 14 with 5258 views | _ |
| I just wonder.... on 22:11 - Jul 14 by christiand |
If Taylor is fit, he is the better player IMO. Why can't he do the job of having that connection with the manager and what's going on on the pitch? After all, he was captain at a bigger club than us at Newcastle United and he is a leader on the pitch, like Chambers, but with better pedigree. |
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| I just wonder.... on 22:31 - Jul 14 with 5246 views | christiand |
Without doubt Libero. I really hope he does because I think he'd be a terrific signing for us. Regardless of what MM thinks we haven't been that great defensively for a while now, but I have no doubt Taylor would improve us and those around him in a blue shirt. | |
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| I just wonder.... on 22:34 - Jul 14 with 5240 views | tcblue |
| I just wonder.... on 22:28 - Jul 14 by christiand |
Sentiment and emotion needs to be taken out the decision by MM and he needs to look carefully and professionally at who would bring the most to the team. Yes it would be a tough decision, but that's why MM is paid the salary he does. Chambers can't be in the side based on him being the club captain, especially if their is a stronger alternative, a better player and defender in Taylor on the sidelines. Football, as you know TCblue, is about opinions: you prefer Chambers and I prefer Taylor, but if Taylor can't prove his fitness this discussion is pointless. |
I actually think we agree on most things, where I deviate is where anyone thinks that sentiment is the only reason MM would look at Chambers as captain (it isn't, it's trust), and that a good captain can't be a reason to pick a slightly inferior player.
I hated Chambers at RB as much as anyone, but respect his captaincy. Perhaps I remember too vividly some of the gutless sides we've had in the past, and I'm over egging him | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 22:36 - Jul 14 with 5232 views | connorscontract |
| I just wonder.... on 19:09 - Jul 14 by NoCanariesAllowed |
Yes. He will leave.
As will Bart.
And Webster. And McGoldrick.
And all the squad. They'll all leave. Everybody leaves eventually.
Even Dean Bowditch. |
But not Guillermo Graaven. He's under the Sir Bobby Stand, sleeping rough. | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 22:51 - Jul 14 with 5191 views | connorscontract |
| I just wonder.... on 21:50 - Jul 14 by christiand |
Unfortunately, that's how MM will see it too. Sentiment needs to go out the window. If you pitch Chambers against Taylor with both of them fully fit - Who would you prefer in the starting line up and who is the better player? For all Chambers bravado, he hasn't got the quality or calibre that Taylor has as a centre back. I'd have Taylor over Chambers every time and I'd appoint him as captain too. All ifs and buts, but let's not forget Chambers can't do no wrong in MM's eyes even if he has a better defender currently trying to earn a contract and prove his fitness. |
If you pitch Chambers against any experienced Prem defender, of course he's second best, if they're both fit.
But with Steven Taylor that's a farking massive IF.
In 2014/15 he made 9 appearances for Newcastle.
In 2015/16 he made 0 appearances for Newcastle.
In 2016/17 he made 9 appearnaces for Portland Timbers and 3 for Ipswich Town. He was substituted injured in 2 of those 3 appearances for Ipswich.
Chambers, meanwhile, will play wherever he's asked by the manager without bitching or moaning, and gives his all. He has had problems with blurred vision but keeps going for the team.
So, would you rather have a 6 to 7/10 player available every game, giving his all, or an 8/10 player available for 10 matches in the season, in which he has to be substituted off 6 times, for the same money?
Chambers for me. Of all the players at ITFC he's surely earned the benefit of the doubt by now??? | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 22:54 - Jul 14 with 5182 views | Mullet |
| I just wonder.... on 22:51 - Jul 14 by connorscontract |
If you pitch Chambers against any experienced Prem defender, of course he's second best, if they're both fit.
But with Steven Taylor that's a farking massive IF.
In 2014/15 he made 9 appearances for Newcastle.
In 2015/16 he made 0 appearances for Newcastle.
In 2016/17 he made 9 appearnaces for Portland Timbers and 3 for Ipswich Town. He was substituted injured in 2 of those 3 appearances for Ipswich.
Chambers, meanwhile, will play wherever he's asked by the manager without bitching or moaning, and gives his all. He has had problems with blurred vision but keeps going for the team.
So, would you rather have a 6 to 7/10 player available every game, giving his all, or an 8/10 player available for 10 matches in the season, in which he has to be substituted off 6 times, for the same money?
Chambers for me. Of all the players at ITFC he's surely earned the benefit of the doubt by now??? |
I don't really understand the thinking either. Chambers is a bit Matt Holland-lite in his ability to keep chugging away all season and turn in adequate performance after performance.
I'm wondering if there's something about Newcastle given Dyer also ended up back here in similarly fragile ways. |  |
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| I just wonder.... on 23:00 - Jul 14 with 5166 views | connorscontract |
| I just wonder.... on 22:54 - Jul 14 by Mullet |
I don't really understand the thinking either. Chambers is a bit Matt Holland-lite in his ability to keep chugging away all season and turn in adequate performance after performance.
I'm wondering if there's something about Newcastle given Dyer also ended up back here in similarly fragile ways. |
Dyer was over-played as a 16 and 17 year old (finished a game with a broken leg).
Michael Owen was over-played as a 17 year old.
Both were slight and relied on pace. Both knackered early.
See also Teddy Bishop (not that he relies on pace, but arguably he played too much, too soon).
Bones don't usually fully fuse and reach peak strength until 21+ years old.
Mick has done the right thing by Andre Dozell. | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 23:02 - Jul 14 with 5151 views | Mullet |
| I just wonder.... on 23:00 - Jul 14 by connorscontract |
Dyer was over-played as a 16 and 17 year old (finished a game with a broken leg).
Michael Owen was over-played as a 17 year old.
Both were slight and relied on pace. Both knackered early.
See also Teddy Bishop (not that he relies on pace, but arguably he played too much, too soon).
Bones don't usually fully fuse and reach peak strength until 21+ years old.
Mick has done the right thing by Andre Dozell. |
I was being slightly facetious but it's a good point. I'm still convinced Andre is ready for a full season this time either given how he looked (albeit as MM said ina team so ravaged )
I'd like to think he can do what he did against Bristol and turn a game a little in the final 20mins. That'd be useful if we need to rest McG et al. | |
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| I just wonder.... on 23:04 - Jul 14 with 5141 views | tcblue |
McG's bones haven't fully fused yet | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 23:06 - Jul 14 with 5119 views | connorscontract |
| I just wonder.... on 23:04 - Jul 14 by tcblue |
McG's bones haven't fully fused yet |
That deserves a ROFL.
Or in Didsy's case a ROFIA. (Rolls On Floor In Agony) | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 23:08 - Jul 14 with 5109 views | connorscontract |
| I just wonder.... on 23:02 - Jul 14 by Mullet |
I was being slightly facetious but it's a good point. I'm still convinced Andre is ready for a full season this time either given how he looked (albeit as MM said ina team so ravaged )
I'd like to think he can do what he did against Bristol and turn a game a little in the final 20mins. That'd be useful if we need to rest McG et al. |
20 minute cameos are in his long term interest.
But more may be in both Mick's and his agent's short-term interest... | | | |
| I just wonder.... on 23:35 - Jul 14 with 5048 views | StNeotsBlue |
| I just wonder.... on 22:31 - Jul 14 by christiand |
Without doubt Libero. I really hope he does because I think he'd be a terrific signing for us. Regardless of what MM thinks we haven't been that great defensively for a while now, but I have no doubt Taylor would improve us and those around him in a blue shirt. |
There is a line at the end of the Iorfa signing story that his signing could affect Taylor's future at the club.
That said I agree that a fit Taylor would improve us. |  | | |
| I just wonder.... on 06:39 - Jul 15 with 4866 views | Benters |
| I just wonder.... on 21:50 - Jul 14 by christiand |
Unfortunately, that's how MM will see it too. Sentiment needs to go out the window. If you pitch Chambers against Taylor with both of them fully fit - Who would you prefer in the starting line up and who is the better player? For all Chambers bravado, he hasn't got the quality or calibre that Taylor has as a centre back. I'd have Taylor over Chambers every time and I'd appoint him as captain too. All ifs and buts, but let's not forget Chambers can't do no wrong in MM's eyes even if he has a better defender currently trying to earn a contract and prove his fitness. |
This. |  |
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