| John Major on 16:25 - Mar 1 with 3668 views | chicoazul |
| John Major on 16:18 - Mar 1 by The_Last_Baron |
No such thing as a hard brexit. It's a Remain propaganda term. Hard Brexit equals leaving; soft Brexit equals remaining under the boot of Brussels and the EU>
We voted to leave the European Union - remaining in any of it's major institutions is not leaving the EU.
Accept the referendum result and get on with life. There are more important things in life, family and friends for a start. If the UK fudges leaving and does a leaving in name only arrangement, this issue will not die. It will lead to political unrest which will result in major problems and see us leave the EU in full eventually in any case. The genie is out of the bottle, it's not going back in.
I would predict the EU will collapse by 2030, if it lasts that long. It's demise is inevitable. |
LOLing hard at the idea that the EU will collapse in 12 years as if the Germans French and Dutch would ever allow that to happen. |  |
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| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:27 - Mar 1 with 3666 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:24 - Mar 1 by Dyland |
Nope, you said that after you simply mentioned "the Leave campaign" you tinker.
Putting your absurd disingenuous side stepping to one side though, Farage's campaigning probably had a factor in the outcome, you won't deny that. And my point stands that the Leave campaign wasn't simply positive, the Remain campaign simply negative. Stop being so reductionist on such a complex matter.
FFS x |
Guys, the argument was settled on June 23rd 2006. We are nearly two years on now. Stop driving yourself mad, I sense the brainwashing of the people into believing the EU is some form of utopian requirement for us to survive was more widespread that we could have possibly imagined. |  |
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| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:27 - Mar 1 with 3666 views | blueislander |
| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:18 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue |
I fear I have to repeat myself far too much on here.
John Major by GlasgowBlue 1 Mar 2018 14:00Farage wasn't part of the official leave campaign.
We were discussing the official campaigns. Leave was positive. Remain was negative. Had Cameron campaigned on what he saw as the positives of EU membership you may have got a different result.
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You can't just dismiss Farage's role in the leave campaign. I am sure his expressed views persuaded many to vote leave. Much of his rhetoric was based on fear. |  | | |
| John Major on 16:31 - Mar 1 with 3661 views | Radlett_blue |
| John Major on 16:25 - Mar 1 by chicoazul |
LOLing hard at the idea that the EU will collapse in 12 years as if the Germans French and Dutch would ever allow that to happen. |
12 years may be too soon, but many European countries have huge structural problems in their economies, based on demographics, GDP growth, the number of government employees & public pension liabilities. France & Italy for sure, Spain's finances are dreadful. The Netherlands isn't nearly large enough so the financial burden of supporting the poorer nations will fall almost entirely on Germany & at some stage the German voters, who are already unhappy with their immigration policy, will rebel. The Euro is also doomed to another Greek style crisis (& forcing Greece into perpetual austerity has been hugely unpopular. |  |
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| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:35 - Mar 1 with 3648 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:27 - Mar 1 by blueislander |
You can't just dismiss Farage's role in the leave campaign. I am sure his expressed views persuaded many to vote leave. Much of his rhetoric was based on fear. |
I really wish people would read what is written part 674737373
The discussion was about the two campaigns. Leave and remain.
One positive and one negative.
Farage's group didn't get the electoral commission's license to be the official leave campaign. He wasn't allowed to participate in any official leave campaign events. His group ran their own negative campaign. I am not disputing that the result was completely reliant on Ukip and their immigration policy. That isn't what is being discussed.
So for the zillionth time the official leave campaign was far more positive than the official remain campaign. That is all I was discussing. Nothing else.
Remain blew it by being negative instead of campaigning on what they perceived as the benefits of EU membership.
Can I sticky this so I don't have to keep repeating myself please. |  |
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| on 16:36 - Mar 1 with 3640 views | _ |
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| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:39 - Mar 1 with 3644 views | blueislander |
| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:35 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue |
I really wish people would read what is written part 674737373
The discussion was about the two campaigns. Leave and remain.
One positive and one negative.
Farage's group didn't get the electoral commission's license to be the official leave campaign. He wasn't allowed to participate in any official leave campaign events. His group ran their own negative campaign. I am not disputing that the result was completely reliant on Ukip and their immigration policy. That isn't what is being discussed.
So for the zillionth time the official leave campaign was far more positive than the official remain campaign. That is all I was discussing. Nothing else.
Remain blew it by being negative instead of campaigning on what they perceived as the benefits of EU membership.
Can I sticky this so I don't have to keep repeating myself please. |
Yours is a very narrow argument that suits your political agenda. I think that most of us are more interested in comparing all aspects of the referendum campaign. | | | |
| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:47 - Mar 1 with 3627 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nice cherry picking Glassers on 16:39 - Mar 1 by blueislander |
Yours is a very narrow argument that suits your political agenda. I think that most of us are more interested in comparing all aspects of the referendum campaign. |
Nope. You are just not reading what is written.
To clarify.
The vote to leave the EU would not have happened without the bigots and the racists. Fact.
The vote to leave the EU would not have happened without Farage's scare tactics never immigration. Fact.
Noe of this has been disputed by me. Completely accept all of that.
But I thought, silly me, that the debate had turned to the merits of the two campaigns. Vote Leave vs Britain Stronger in Europe. Lucan even mentioned the Boris Bus which had nothing to do with Farage's group "Grassroots Out".
So my point for the god knows how many times is the leave campaign, and Dyllers as far as I am concerned there was only one leave campaign, was far more positive to the remain campaign, that run by Cameron and co (there were other remain campaign groups not connected to "Britain Stronger in Europe".
Britain Stronger in Europe mostly used Lynton Crosby scare tactics, know as project fear, whereas Vote Leave mostly used positive tactics.
Is that finally settled now? Jeez, I wish I hadn't bothered agreeing with Lucan's view now. [Post edited 1 Mar 2018 16:49]
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| John Major on 16:59 - Mar 1 with 3618 views | Lord_Lucan |
| John Major on 16:05 - Mar 1 by Darth_Koont |
Of course. Yet when it comes to it you don't pick the bones out of things. We've been exactly here at least three times that I can remember. |
So in other words......
You are always right. |  |
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| John Major on 17:08 - Mar 1 with 3609 views | Lord_Lucan |
| John Major on 16:18 - Mar 1 by The_Last_Baron |
No such thing as a hard brexit. It's a Remain propaganda term. Hard Brexit equals leaving; soft Brexit equals remaining under the boot of Brussels and the EU>
We voted to leave the European Union - remaining in any of it's major institutions is not leaving the EU.
Accept the referendum result and get on with life. There are more important things in life, family and friends for a start. If the UK fudges leaving and does a leaving in name only arrangement, this issue will not die. It will lead to political unrest which will result in major problems and see us leave the EU in full eventually in any case. The genie is out of the bottle, it's not going back in.
I would predict the EU will collapse by 2030, if it lasts that long. It's demise is inevitable. |
My mad Dutch friend Ankie and Leslaw the Polish sparky both think that it is better for UK and the Dutch bird wishes they would follow suit. In fact most Europeans I meet feel the same, although when I was in Germany recently they all thought we were mad. | |
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| John Major on 17:10 - Mar 1 with 3597 views | GlasgowBlue |
| John Major on 17:08 - Mar 1 by Lord_Lucan |
My mad Dutch friend Ankie and Leslaw the Polish sparky both think that it is better for UK and the Dutch bird wishes they would follow suit. In fact most Europeans I meet feel the same, although when I was in Germany recently they all thought we were mad. |
The Germans would. They have managed to control most of Europe without having to send a single Panzer into battle. | |
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| John Major on 18:39 - Mar 1 with 3566 views | HennikerBlu |
| John Major on 17:08 - Mar 1 by Lord_Lucan |
My mad Dutch friend Ankie and Leslaw the Polish sparky both think that it is better for UK and the Dutch bird wishes they would follow suit. In fact most Europeans I meet feel the same, although when I was in Germany recently they all thought we were mad. |
I remember R5 interviewing some naturalised Polish workers up in the Lincolnshire or Fenland area (?) just after the referendum, when one of them was asked how he voted, he said to leave because of migration and the potential to lower their wages.
There are those in Germany that are not happy to see us go.....but understand and think it will be better for us long term, certainly that was the view I got when I met some abroad. They were from the Munich area and Bavarians and perhaps have a different view.
Confusing picture! [Post edited 1 Mar 2018 19:09]
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| John Major on 19:58 - Mar 1 with 3532 views | No9 |
| John Major on 15:53 - Feb 28 by flimflam |
Easy to be popular when you are spending hundreds of billions you dont actually have and then waltz of into the sunset leaving the mess for someone else to sort out.
The state of this country now is mostly down to him and I doubt we would be having Brexit if he didn't allow uncontrolled immigration to begin on his watch. |
Perhaps you should spend some time studying official figires to find out how worng you are. | | | |
| John Major on 20:02 - Mar 1 with 3527 views | No9 |
| John Major on 18:43 - Feb 28 by flimflam |
When Brown deregulated the banks and allowed them to leverage up to their eyeballs on a fiat currency backed by thin air then yes they did contribute heavily to the recession.
Stoking the housing market with debt that could not be repayed in the event of a crash could only go one way and blaming the banks is justified but they were allowed to do it on Blair / Browns watch.
Out of curiosity how many other countries suffered as much as the UK and USA in the 2008 recession? [Post edited 28 Feb 2018 18:44]
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Brown didn't de-regulate the banks
That was done in 1986 way before Brown became CoE | | | |
| John Major on 20:11 - Mar 1 with 3515 views | No9 |
| John Major on 17:10 - Mar 1 by GlasgowBlue |
The Germans would. They have managed to control most of Europe without having to send a single Panzer into battle. |
There are probably few countries in Europe as dependent on Germany as the UK. | | | |
| John Major on 22:44 - Mar 1 with 3499 views | Darth_Koont |
| John Major on 16:59 - Mar 1 by Lord_Lucan |
So in other words......
You are always right. |
Quite the opposite.
It's because I don't trust the thoughts that immediately come into my own head I need to read a bit and think a bit first. That's common sense surely?
If you think I'm wrong I want you to challenge me. But there's no point if you're just going to tell me what you think without actually having thought about it and challenged it yourself. |  |
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| John Major on 08:43 - Mar 2 with 3400 views | No9 |
Light touch is different from an act of parliament.
Of course after the debacle in '92 the regulations should have been tighter but you can hear the RW howls can't you?
This is still a problem the 'financial sector' is out of control and the governemtn are too weak to regin them in-
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/2017-fines
NO matter how big the fines they take no notice -why? | | | |
| John Major on 08:52 - Mar 2 with 3396 views | No9 |
He offered his party the opportunity to 'back him or sack him' - they backed him.
He learnt a ot about the 'b@stards but did nothing in the party to get them united.
The country is still suffering from the inability of his party to do anythign other than look after themselves
He should apologise for his failure.
The issues at stake now were created by Caerom in 2013. It has taken the 'leavers' 5 years to realise what leaving means - now they don't want to leave at all. They still haven't thought this through & where they were offfering the moon on a stick it is no now more than ' getting cheaper, clothing, shoes & food' but of course they can't even explain how they can do that as when we leave the EU we shall loose the economies of scale. | | | |
| John Major on 10:12 - Mar 2 with 3379 views | Ryorry |
| John Major on 08:52 - Mar 2 by No9 |
He offered his party the opportunity to 'back him or sack him' - they backed him.
He learnt a ot about the 'b@stards but did nothing in the party to get them united.
The country is still suffering from the inability of his party to do anythign other than look after themselves
He should apologise for his failure.
The issues at stake now were created by Caerom in 2013. It has taken the 'leavers' 5 years to realise what leaving means - now they don't want to leave at all. They still haven't thought this through & where they were offfering the moon on a stick it is no now more than ' getting cheaper, clothing, shoes & food' but of course they can't even explain how they can do that as when we leave the EU we shall loose the economies of scale. |
"The issues at stake now were created by Caerom in 2013".
Spot on (assuming you mean Cameron!) |  |
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| John Major on 10:19 - Mar 2 with 3370 views | chicoazul |
| John Major on 08:52 - Mar 2 by No9 |
He offered his party the opportunity to 'back him or sack him' - they backed him.
He learnt a ot about the 'b@stards but did nothing in the party to get them united.
The country is still suffering from the inability of his party to do anythign other than look after themselves
He should apologise for his failure.
The issues at stake now were created by Caerom in 2013. It has taken the 'leavers' 5 years to realise what leaving means - now they don't want to leave at all. They still haven't thought this through & where they were offfering the moon on a stick it is no now more than ' getting cheaper, clothing, shoes & food' but of course they can't even explain how they can do that as when we leave the EU we shall loose the economies of scale. |
You're ignoring that it was indeed Blair who opened up full immigration to the Easterm bloc countries when they joined the EU (he was the only European leader to do so at the time) which in turn contributed in very large part to the Labour heartlands voting en masse to Leave. I dont agree with the sentiments that prompted people to do this but do it they did. Yes Cameron called a referendum stupidly but the groundwork for the sentiment that led to the vote was laid by Blair. | |
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