| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:28 - Jul 20 with 616 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:14 - Jul 20 by solomon |
You’re better than this, I have hope you are. |
I am not saying that individual cases of racism should be ignored. All should be treated equally. |  |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:31 - Jul 20 with 607 views | solomon |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:28 - Jul 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I am not saying that individual cases of racism should be ignored. All should be treated equally. |
If so why didn’t JC do exactly as you’ve just said then? |  | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:31 - Jul 20 with 606 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:27 - Jul 20 by solomon |
0.07 % is 0.07% too much in any civilised society, good grief man.
Is it ok to have a small percentage of racists within any organisation, is this what you are saying? |
No. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:35 - Jul 20 with 579 views | Darth_Koont |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:27 - Jul 20 by solomon |
0.07 % is 0.07% too much in any civilised society, good grief man.
Is it ok to have a small percentage of racists within any organisation, is this what you are saying? |
I absolutely agree. There needs to be zero tolerance of antisemitism and all other forms of racism. And this episode has let minorities down badly.
However, the British public assumed that antisemitism incidents concerned 1 in 3 Labour members. E.g. way way beyond even the far right.
Politicising and weaponising racism and anti-racism doesn’t help resolve it or educate the people who need educating. |  |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:36 - Jul 20 with 572 views | Darth_Koont |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:31 - Jul 20 by solomon |
If so why didn’t JC do exactly as you’ve just said then? |
Where did he not deal with them? He was censured by the EHRC or getting too involved to expedite complaints and have members thrown out. | |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:38 - Jul 20 with 571 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:31 - Jul 20 by solomon |
If so why didn’t JC do exactly as you’ve just said then? |
He has many failings. Nothing he said or did would have been good enough. The machinery of his own party not wanting him to succeed would not have helped. | |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:39 - Jul 20 with 555 views | Darth_Koont |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 07:42 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
A few virtual voices? Have you read either the EHRC or Forde reports?
From the Forde report:
experiences of “widespread existence” of discrimination based on religion, race, gender and sexual orientation
provided “with a wealth of evidence” documenting discrimination.
profoundly serious issue of anti-Semitism in the party
Stop downplaying racism banksy. |
Wow! You’re now using the shocking behaviour of the Labour right and establishment as a charge against Corbyn?
You went to bat for these people repeatedly. | |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:42 - Jul 20 with 560 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:39 - Jul 20 by Darth_Koont |
Wow! You’re now using the shocking behaviour of the Labour right and establishment as a charge against Corbyn?
You went to bat for these people repeatedly. |
Now that I have provided the numbers to illustrate this "widespread existence" he likely has a dentist to see or some such. | |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:42 - Jul 20 with 547 views | Darth_Koont |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 14:23 - Jul 19 by GlasgowBlue |
"We have also seen evidence of denialism about antisemitism amongst some on the Left, who asserted that the issue was being exaggerated to undermine the leader..
To be clear, we have seen no evidence that claims of antisemitism were fabricated by complainants or improperly pursued by the complaints team.”
Supporters AND opponents of Corbyn using the issue of antisemitism within the party “as a factional weapon." Both ‘sides’ were thus "weaponising the issue and failing to recognise the seriousness of antisemitism."
Corbyn himself declined to be interviewed for the report, though signed a joint submission to the inquiry. Forde described the Labour leader as “notably silent.
”I’m sure those who shouted smear and accused the British Jewish community of being in the pay of the Israel lobby will retract and aPologise.
Edit.
Blimey
[Post edited 19 Jul 2022 14:51]
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By the way, why are you and Paul Waugh quoting Labour spokesmen spinning the report? Stick to the report, which doesn’t back half of these interpretations up. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:43 - Jul 20 with 554 views | GlasgowBlue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:35 - Jul 20 by Darth_Koont |
I absolutely agree. There needs to be zero tolerance of antisemitism and all other forms of racism. And this episode has let minorities down badly.
However, the British public assumed that antisemitism incidents concerned 1 in 3 Labour members. E.g. way way beyond even the far right.
Politicising and weaponising racism and anti-racism doesn’t help resolve it or educate the people who need educating. |
I wasn’t going to engage with you further in this but you are posting in bad faith. The public never thought that antisemitism incidents concerned 1 in 3 Labour members.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-claim-that-labour-anti
You are just trying to to deflect from the fact that under Corbyn Labour had an antisemitism problem that resulted in the party being investigated by the EHRC. During that period you accused anyone one who raised this issue of spreading smears, including Jewish members who both Forde and the EHRC clearly state were discriminated against.
[Post edited 20 Jul 2022 8:50]
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:59 - Jul 20 with 523 views | unbelievablue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:43 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
I wasn’t going to engage with you further in this but you are posting in bad faith. The public never thought that antisemitism incidents concerned 1 in 3 Labour members.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-claim-that-labour-anti
You are just trying to to deflect from the fact that under Corbyn Labour had an antisemitism problem that resulted in the party being investigated by the EHRC. During that period you accused anyone one who raised this issue of spreading smears, including Jewish members who both Forde and the EHRC clearly state were discriminated against.
[Post edited 20 Jul 2022 8:50]
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These back and forths between you and DK are ultimately pretty pointless. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:02 - Jul 20 with 514 views | solomon |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:59 - Jul 20 by unbelievablue |
These back and forths between you and DK are ultimately pretty pointless. |
For some of us it’s vitally important, we are few in number but we shouldn’t have to sit here and take it because a few want to beat us down into quiet submission, never. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:03 - Jul 20 with 509 views | solomon |
That’s certainly not how I read it | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:04 - Jul 20 with 503 views | unbelievablue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:02 - Jul 20 by solomon |
For some of us it’s vitally important, we are few in number but we shouldn’t have to sit here and take it because a few want to beat us down into quiet submission, never. |
You misunderstand me. I'm not downplaying the issue. I started the thread because I would like to see a light shone on the issue at large.
I'm merely saying that for years now DK and GB have gone back and forth on it again and again and are so clearly entrenched on opposite ends of the spectrum that there is basically zero point in them arguing. | |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:08 - Jul 20 with 477 views | solomon |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:42 - Jul 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Now that I have provided the numbers to illustrate this "widespread existence" he likely has a dentist to see or some such. |
No dentist here, you’ve not answered a single question I’ve asked . | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:11 - Jul 20 with 474 views | GlasgowBlue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:04 - Jul 20 by unbelievablue |
You misunderstand me. I'm not downplaying the issue. I started the thread because I would like to see a light shone on the issue at large.
I'm merely saying that for years now DK and GB have gone back and forth on it again and again and are so clearly entrenched on opposite ends of the spectrum that there is basically zero point in them arguing. |
And I shouldn’t bite. But it’s hard to sit back and see his dishonesty and deflection in action.
Remember, this is Dk.
5th reply in.
Again, 5th reply in
Oh Jeremy..... by Steve_M 23 Mar 2018 19:39It's been known about for a while, this chap even wrote a pertinent blog about it:
https://medium.com/@twlldun/the-socialism-of-fools-cb3426fc10bf
At the very best Corbyn is blind to anti-Semitism, that's not an ideal position for a prospective Prime Minister, but he is quite prepared to indulge it in people he thinks are on the 'right side'.
Panorama? Or Tunnel Vision? by Darth_Koont 7 Jul 2019 11:44Well, this confirms my worst fears for Wednesday's Panorama exposé on Labour antisemitism.
At a time when we need balance and perspective to get past the narrative and look at facts, instead we've got a journalist who is one of the chief architects of that narrative ... he's already been accused of doing a Panorama hatchet job against Corbyn in 2015 as well as being repeatedly accused of having a pro-Israel and islamophobic stance in other stories.
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/07/the-background-of-the-man-behind-the-panorama-hatchet-job-or-jobs-on-labour-party/
That doesn't read well. And looks like the BBC will be doubling down on its generally pretty awful and non-factual reporting around this crisis.
The state of our politics and our media ...
He’s spent years defending, repeating and agreeing with antisemitic tropes. It’s pretty hard to sit back and then see him attempt to portray himself as a sane voice of balanced reason. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 9:14]
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:13 - Jul 20 with 460 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:08 - Jul 20 by solomon |
No dentist here, you’ve not answered a single question I’ve asked . |
I think I answered them all. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:24 - Jul 20 with 419 views | giant_stow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:11 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
And I shouldn’t bite. But it’s hard to sit back and see his dishonesty and deflection in action.
Remember, this is Dk.
5th reply in.
Again, 5th reply in
Oh Jeremy..... by Steve_M 23 Mar 2018 19:39It's been known about for a while, this chap even wrote a pertinent blog about it:
https://medium.com/@twlldun/the-socialism-of-fools-cb3426fc10bf
At the very best Corbyn is blind to anti-Semitism, that's not an ideal position for a prospective Prime Minister, but he is quite prepared to indulge it in people he thinks are on the 'right side'.
Panorama? Or Tunnel Vision? by Darth_Koont 7 Jul 2019 11:44Well, this confirms my worst fears for Wednesday's Panorama exposé on Labour antisemitism.
At a time when we need balance and perspective to get past the narrative and look at facts, instead we've got a journalist who is one of the chief architects of that narrative ... he's already been accused of doing a Panorama hatchet job against Corbyn in 2015 as well as being repeatedly accused of having a pro-Israel and islamophobic stance in other stories.
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/07/the-background-of-the-man-behind-the-panorama-hatchet-job-or-jobs-on-labour-party/
That doesn't read well. And looks like the BBC will be doubling down on its generally pretty awful and non-factual reporting around this crisis.
The state of our politics and our media ...
He’s spent years defending, repeating and agreeing with antisemitic tropes. It’s pretty hard to sit back and then see him attempt to portray himself as a sane voice of balanced reason. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 9:14]
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I nearly went and re read that whole first thread then. Twtd addiction is a terrible thing.
Blimey Darth, I'd forgotten some of that. At least you've grown a little since then I spose. |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:25 - Jul 20 with 419 views | unbelievablue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:11 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
And I shouldn’t bite. But it’s hard to sit back and see his dishonesty and deflection in action.
Remember, this is Dk.
5th reply in.
Again, 5th reply in
Oh Jeremy..... by Steve_M 23 Mar 2018 19:39It's been known about for a while, this chap even wrote a pertinent blog about it:
https://medium.com/@twlldun/the-socialism-of-fools-cb3426fc10bf
At the very best Corbyn is blind to anti-Semitism, that's not an ideal position for a prospective Prime Minister, but he is quite prepared to indulge it in people he thinks are on the 'right side'.
Panorama? Or Tunnel Vision? by Darth_Koont 7 Jul 2019 11:44Well, this confirms my worst fears for Wednesday's Panorama exposé on Labour antisemitism.
At a time when we need balance and perspective to get past the narrative and look at facts, instead we've got a journalist who is one of the chief architects of that narrative ... he's already been accused of doing a Panorama hatchet job against Corbyn in 2015 as well as being repeatedly accused of having a pro-Israel and islamophobic stance in other stories.
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/07/07/the-background-of-the-man-behind-the-panorama-hatchet-job-or-jobs-on-labour-party/
That doesn't read well. And looks like the BBC will be doubling down on its generally pretty awful and non-factual reporting around this crisis.
The state of our politics and our media ...
He’s spent years defending, repeating and agreeing with antisemitic tropes. It’s pretty hard to sit back and then see him attempt to portray himself as a sane voice of balanced reason. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 9:14]
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I wasn't around for the mural thread (I don't think).
Denying antisemitism in that mural is laughable. Disingenuous at best.
The words of the artist - “Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are.”. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 9:28]
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:27 - Jul 20 with 403 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 08:42 - Jul 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Now that I have provided the numbers to illustrate this "widespread existence" he likely has a dentist to see or some such. |
You haven’t provided any such thing. I covered this in the fact check link.
“ It’s hard to understand how Mr Corbyn can claim to know how many Labour members were investigated by the party for antisemitism throughout his leadership.
This is because people close to him have always argued that Labour did not have proper systems in place to track antisemitism cases until they took over the management of the party.
Although Mr Corbyn became Labour leader in 2015, it wasn’t until 2018 that Jennie Formby, a close ally, became general secretary.
Ms Formby said consistently that she could not provide comprehensive data on antisemitism cases before she took over the post from Iain McNicol”.
Why are you trying to deflect from the issue by posting inaccurate stats?
When a Momentum member sent Ruth Smeeth a 1000 word essay in which he listed the many ways he would like to murder her, do you think she was concerned about inaccurate stats?
When a Labour member sent a letter to a Margaret Hodge accusing her and Ruth Smeeth of being “ sh1t stirring Zionist cum buckets, bought and paid for by Israel.” Do you think either were concerned about inaccurate stats?
When Luciana Berger had to have a police escort at the Labour Party conference in Liverpool, after receiving several death threats for speaking up against antisemitism in the Labour Party, do you think she was concerned about inaccurate stats?
And seeing as you are putting your ahead above the parapet on this subject against banksy, do you still believe that Jewish people are over represented in the media, entertainment industry and banking, and do you still require evidence to the contrary before you will believe otherwise?
Isn’t it funny how all of those who have previously expressed problematic views on this board are those who are so keen to downplay the issue.
I’m sure someone could produce a venn diagram.
edit. You may have suddenly found yourself with a dentist appointment, hence your reluctance to reply. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 15:30]
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:29 - Jul 20 with 400 views | solomon |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:13 - Jul 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think I answered them all. |
So let me ask you a question,
If you saw anyone being subjected to antisemitism or clear evidence of antisemitic discrimination in the street, in the work place or anywhere else for that matter what would you do? | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:31 - Jul 20 with 392 views | Darth_Koont |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 08:43 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
I wasn’t going to engage with you further in this but you are posting in bad faith. The public never thought that antisemitism incidents concerned 1 in 3 Labour members.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyns-claim-that-labour-anti
You are just trying to to deflect from the fact that under Corbyn Labour had an antisemitism problem that resulted in the party being investigated by the EHRC. During that period you accused anyone one who raised this issue of spreading smears, including Jewish members who both Forde and the EHRC clearly state were discriminated against.
[Post edited 20 Jul 2022 8:50]
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You’re quibbling over whether the mean average of 34% is accurate. Sure, you can make that case easily and also that a different question would produce a different result.
But any way you cut it the perceived scale is light years away from the true figure. Let’s be honest, that was the aim anyway. Opponents wanted antisemitism to consume and discredit Corbynism. That’s why the accusations around Corbyn himself were particularly wild but nowhere near true enough to even make a case for him to be thrown out of the Labour Party.
You refuse to square that circle because you can’t. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:37 - Jul 20 with 373 views | GlasgowBlue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 09:25 - Jul 20 by unbelievablue |
I wasn't around for the mural thread (I don't think).
Denying antisemitism in that mural is laughable. Disingenuous at best.
The words of the artist - “Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are.”. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 9:28]
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And him agreeing with Pete willsman that:
Israeli embassy whipping up anti-Semitism claims to attack Labour.
- Party staffers work "indirectly" for embassy.
- 68 rabbis "organised" by embassy to complain about "severe" anti-Semitism within Labour. | |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:38 - Jul 20 with 369 views | Darth_Koont |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:27 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
You haven’t provided any such thing. I covered this in the fact check link.
“ It’s hard to understand how Mr Corbyn can claim to know how many Labour members were investigated by the party for antisemitism throughout his leadership.
This is because people close to him have always argued that Labour did not have proper systems in place to track antisemitism cases until they took over the management of the party.
Although Mr Corbyn became Labour leader in 2015, it wasn’t until 2018 that Jennie Formby, a close ally, became general secretary.
Ms Formby said consistently that she could not provide comprehensive data on antisemitism cases before she took over the post from Iain McNicol”.
Why are you trying to deflect from the issue by posting inaccurate stats?
When a Momentum member sent Ruth Smeeth a 1000 word essay in which he listed the many ways he would like to murder her, do you think she was concerned about inaccurate stats?
When a Labour member sent a letter to a Margaret Hodge accusing her and Ruth Smeeth of being “ sh1t stirring Zionist cum buckets, bought and paid for by Israel.” Do you think either were concerned about inaccurate stats?
When Luciana Berger had to have a police escort at the Labour Party conference in Liverpool, after receiving several death threats for speaking up against antisemitism in the Labour Party, do you think she was concerned about inaccurate stats?
And seeing as you are putting your ahead above the parapet on this subject against banksy, do you still believe that Jewish people are over represented in the media, entertainment industry and banking, and do you still require evidence to the contrary before you will believe otherwise?
Isn’t it funny how all of those who have previously expressed problematic views on this board are those who are so keen to downplay the issue.
I’m sure someone could produce a venn diagram.
edit. You may have suddenly found yourself with a dentist appointment, hence your reluctance to reply. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 15:30]
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Loony accusations and misrepresentations of the facts here.
Did Luciana Berger have a police escort at the Labour Party conference itself? Or was it actually outside when getting to the conference? And in response to death threats from the far right?
Simple yes/nos please.
Your willingness to conflate stuff you know is unconnected and ascribe the actions of individual members to the wider left community is frankly pretty disgusting weaponisation of antisemitism. . | |
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| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:39 - Jul 20 with 372 views | solomon |
| Forde Report: Anti-Semitism used as 'factional weapon' in Labour party on 09:27 - Jul 20 by GlasgowBlue |
You haven’t provided any such thing. I covered this in the fact check link.
“ It’s hard to understand how Mr Corbyn can claim to know how many Labour members were investigated by the party for antisemitism throughout his leadership.
This is because people close to him have always argued that Labour did not have proper systems in place to track antisemitism cases until they took over the management of the party.
Although Mr Corbyn became Labour leader in 2015, it wasn’t until 2018 that Jennie Formby, a close ally, became general secretary.
Ms Formby said consistently that she could not provide comprehensive data on antisemitism cases before she took over the post from Iain McNicol”.
Why are you trying to deflect from the issue by posting inaccurate stats?
When a Momentum member sent Ruth Smeeth a 1000 word essay in which he listed the many ways he would like to murder her, do you think she was concerned about inaccurate stats?
When a Labour member sent a letter to a Margaret Hodge accusing her and Ruth Smeeth of being “ sh1t stirring Zionist cum buckets, bought and paid for by Israel.” Do you think either were concerned about inaccurate stats?
When Luciana Berger had to have a police escort at the Labour Party conference in Liverpool, after receiving several death threats for speaking up against antisemitism in the Labour Party, do you think she was concerned about inaccurate stats?
And seeing as you are putting your ahead above the parapet on this subject against banksy, do you still believe that Jewish people are over represented in the media, entertainment industry and banking, and do you still require evidence to the contrary before you will believe otherwise?
Isn’t it funny how all of those who have previously expressed problematic views on this board are those who are so keen to downplay the issue.
I’m sure someone could produce a venn diagram.
edit. You may have suddenly found yourself with a dentist appointment, hence your reluctance to reply. [Post edited 20 Jul 2022 15:30]
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Racism is racism, such a shame that antisemitism seems to be the racism of choice for some sections of society, they openly feel it’s a badge of honour, it seeps in and infects the minds of the vulnerable and impressionable. It’s our moral duty as a nation that we ensure everyone has a safe space no matter what , where or who they are. | | | |
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