| This is very touching on 11:22 - Nov 20 with 2090 views | Swansea_Blue |
Very touching indeed |  |
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| This is very touching on 11:33 - Nov 20 with 2069 views | hoppy |
Suddenly got very dusty here.
Yasmin was diagnosed as autistic just before the summer holidays, so can relate so much to beginning to notice her masking and when she's struggling. As a dad, that can be very tough to see, as I struggle to know what approach is needed, or most helpful in situations, and quite often what I think is the best way to be helpful and supportive is often the complete opposite, unintentionally, of course. |  |
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| This is very touching on 11:57 - Nov 20 with 2006 views | Double_Dutch |
Thank you for sharing, very moving.
I can relate to eveything that Hoppy has expressed. My granddaughter has been diagnosed as autistic and, even with my limited involvement, it saddens me to see the difficult path in which she is going to have to navigate. As parents and grandparents, we can only be there to support her every step, as far as possible, through her journey. |  | | |
| This is very touching on 12:10 - Nov 20 with 1956 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This is very touching on 11:33 - Nov 20 by hoppy |
Suddenly got very dusty here.
Yasmin was diagnosed as autistic just before the summer holidays, so can relate so much to beginning to notice her masking and when she's struggling. As a dad, that can be very tough to see, as I struggle to know what approach is needed, or most helpful in situations, and quite often what I think is the best way to be helpful and supportive is often the complete opposite, unintentionally, of course. |
Tons of very useful videos on YouTube about this, especially autism in girls and young women, with great advice from a wide variety of contributors - too many to list here!
From my point of view, I use such content to help work with women in software programming (many of whom are on the spectrum) and assist them get past barriers to career progression.... |  |
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| This is very touching on 12:13 - Nov 20 with 1951 views | lowhouseblue |
it is touching and a good reminder. we're all different and somethings are easier for some people than for others. there's an extreme where somethings are impossible for some people - but that is quite rare. but learning to fit in is something everyone goes through - it's a normal development stage even if it takes longer for some. impulse control, assimilation, mirroring, seeking social acceptance, bonding is hard for lots of people. you can call it a mask but it is part of maturing, and social life would be harder for everyone if we didn't all go through that process. none of us always behaves as perhaps we really feel - and when it comes to interacting with others that's not necessarily a bad thing. the way we currently label how difficult different people find that development process is not terribly precise at all and 'stopping masking' isn't necessarily the best answer. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is very touching on 13:32 - Nov 20 with 1768 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This is very touching on 12:13 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
it is touching and a good reminder. we're all different and somethings are easier for some people than for others. there's an extreme where somethings are impossible for some people - but that is quite rare. but learning to fit in is something everyone goes through - it's a normal development stage even if it takes longer for some. impulse control, assimilation, mirroring, seeking social acceptance, bonding is hard for lots of people. you can call it a mask but it is part of maturing, and social life would be harder for everyone if we didn't all go through that process. none of us always behaves as perhaps we really feel - and when it comes to interacting with others that's not necessarily a bad thing. the way we currently label how difficult different people find that development process is not terribly precise at all and 'stopping masking' isn't necessarily the best answer. |
Neurodivergent people can label it whatever they want - who are we "normies" to tell them what their experience should be? | |
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| This is very touching on 13:38 - Nov 20 with 1735 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is very touching on 13:32 - Nov 20 by Ewan_Oozami |
Neurodivergent people can label it whatever they want - who are we "normies" to tell them what their experience should be? |
the labels, such as the one in this thread, come from the medical profession and psychologists. i'm not sure an entirely subjective approach to assessing psychological conditions is going to work. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is very touching on 13:47 - Nov 20 with 1688 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This is very touching on 13:38 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
the labels, such as the one in this thread, come from the medical profession and psychologists. i'm not sure an entirely subjective approach to assessing psychological conditions is going to work. |
The difference between "trying to fit in" for neuronormal people and masking for neurodivergent people, is that the latter have to be doing that 100% of the time - minimising the effort that neurodivergent people have to put in to not be rejected by not just peer groups, but also the rest of society, doesn't seem particularly helpful to their experience IMHO. | |
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| This is very touching on 14:02 - Nov 20 with 1626 views | Ryorry |
Think it's helpful for those affected if they can be as open about what they find difficult as much as they're comfortably able to - anything to aid understanding - people generally might then cut them more slack, be prepared to be more patient?
There was a guy on here (don't know if he still is) who was on the spectrum - once that was explained to people not itk, responses to him were a lot gentler. |  |
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| This is very touching on 14:05 - Nov 20 with 1616 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is very touching on 13:47 - Nov 20 by Ewan_Oozami |
The difference between "trying to fit in" for neuronormal people and masking for neurodivergent people, is that the latter have to be doing that 100% of the time - minimising the effort that neurodivergent people have to put in to not be rejected by not just peer groups, but also the rest of society, doesn't seem particularly helpful to their experience IMHO. |
you are presenting it as a dichotomy - as either / or. whereas there is a great deal of variation in how hard different people find these things, and how hard they find them at different stages of their lives.
it is interesting that the person in the bbc interview is a stand up comic. standup comedy is an entirely social invention observing all sorts of conventions and unnatural socially determined rules. it is learnt in part by observing others and mimicking the codes and norms that they adopt. it involves masking and constraining impulses and putting on an act. without that conformity it's unlikely to be found funny. so how hard people find these social type things also varies with different activities. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is very touching on 17:07 - Nov 20 with 1442 views | SouthBucksBlue |
Thanks for posting. Extremely touching. |  | | |
| This is very touching on 19:11 - Nov 20 with 1349 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This is very touching on 14:05 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
you are presenting it as a dichotomy - as either / or. whereas there is a great deal of variation in how hard different people find these things, and how hard they find them at different stages of their lives.
it is interesting that the person in the bbc interview is a stand up comic. standup comedy is an entirely social invention observing all sorts of conventions and unnatural socially determined rules. it is learnt in part by observing others and mimicking the codes and norms that they adopt. it involves masking and constraining impulses and putting on an act. without that conformity it's unlikely to be found funny. so how hard people find these social type things also varies with different activities. |
It sounds like you're wanting to invalidate neurodivergent experiences, which I'm sure isn't your intention, and not sure where you get the either/or thing from...
https://youtube.com/shorts/VHEroQS77fE?si=sN9IrFpDk3qNTrRd | |
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| This is very touching on 19:21 - Nov 20 with 1318 views | lowhouseblue |
i got it from your use of "neuronormal people" and "neurodivergent people" as if there are two distinct groups. i don't like the term spectrum but it does capture the fact that everyone is different (not assigned to two groups) and there is a range of psychological characteristics that we all have to varying degrees and at different stages of our lives which range from very life limiting to mild. i'm not denying anyone's experience but if you treat everything as subjective you end up, at the mild end, medicalising things that are essentially personality differences. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is very touching on 19:40 - Nov 20 with 1263 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This is very touching on 19:21 - Nov 20 by lowhouseblue |
i got it from your use of "neuronormal people" and "neurodivergent people" as if there are two distinct groups. i don't like the term spectrum but it does capture the fact that everyone is different (not assigned to two groups) and there is a range of psychological characteristics that we all have to varying degrees and at different stages of our lives which range from very life limiting to mild. i'm not denying anyone's experience but if you treat everything as subjective you end up, at the mild end, medicalising things that are essentially personality differences. |
Ah yes I see what you mean!
I guess the fundamental issue is, how do you find objective measures that can define where anyone is along the spectrum? You say the "mild end" but how do we objectively measure what is "mild" and what is "severe"?
Maybe with AI, we can eventually combine data from brain scans, DNA tests, etc, to create some sort of "scale" - but at the moment, subjectivity is all we've got to be able to determine who might need assistance. | |
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| This is very touching on 19:55 - Nov 20 with 1235 views | DBaldy |
Good for her.
Different circumstances, but my 12 year old son was diagnosed with Autism around 7/8 years ago. He would be regarded as "high functioning" but all that really means is that "normal" people know which pigeon hole he fits in.
We've had a lot of ups and downs over the years and as he goes through being a teenager there will undoubtedly be new challenges (not least because he'll be taller than me by the time he's 14/15!) but what we try to do is just let him be himself and if other people think he's weird or different, quite frankly who gives a shyte. As long as he's happy then the other stuff doesn't matter.
The main thing we're dealing with at present is that he's a 12 year old boy who's recently started high school. He's settled in surprisingly well, but his language could be better, for example he often swears at or criticises his friends when they're playing Xbox online as he doesn't have much of a filter. He seems to be able to express himself when things get too much, but he does lash out a fair bit so it can be hard to manage sometimes. Luckily he doesn't seem to care too much about other people's opinions, so hopefully he can keep that up over these next few years as we all know teenage kids can be absolute ar5eholes!
Through these last few years though it's become very obvious that he is an awful lot like me & I've started seeing things a bit differently as a result. My wife and I are pretty sure I'd be on the spectrum myself but I try to use that to relate to him or get inside his head when he's struggling, so we can help him calm down or get him to focus on something different. It's not easy & sometimes I lose my temper with him, but I'm trying to be better!
To be fair we had pretty good support from the local authority after his diagnosis and one thing that really stuck with me is that we shouldn't try to make him fit into "our" world, but rather we need to step into his world & see things from his perspective.
I could run on for hours about it, but I see we have some other parents of autistic kids on this thread, so getting into their world would be my biggest piece of "advice", along with not giving a shyte what anyone else thinks about them. He's my boy, he's brilliant and I love him. | | | |
| This is very touching on 20:05 - Nov 20 with 1201 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is very touching on 19:40 - Nov 20 by Ewan_Oozami |
Ah yes I see what you mean!
I guess the fundamental issue is, how do you find objective measures that can define where anyone is along the spectrum? You say the "mild end" but how do we objectively measure what is "mild" and what is "severe"?
Maybe with AI, we can eventually combine data from brain scans, DNA tests, etc, to create some sort of "scale" - but at the moment, subjectivity is all we've got to be able to determine who might need assistance. |
indeed, an objective measure isn't possible. but in practice we do know that there are different cases - and we can see how people's live are impacted differently. and we do have various psychological tests. but we all have some of these traits to different degrees and if we use medical labels too widely that also makes targeting assistance more difficult. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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