| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder 19:27 - Apr 3 with 6263 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
The bullsh1t detector is sounding loud and strong.
It is literally criminal what we have allowed them to get away with.
Edit...Furthermore...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airs
'According to +972 and Local Call, the IDF judged it permissible to kill more than 100 civilians in attacks on a top-ranking Hamas officials. “We had a calculation for how many [civilians could be killed] for the brigade commander, how many [civilians] for a battalion commander, and so on,” one source said.
“There were regulations, but they were just very lenient,” another added. “We’ve killed people with collateral damage in the high double digits, if not low triple digits. These are things that haven’t happened before.” There appears to have been significant fluctuations in the figure that military commanders would tolerate at different stages of the war.'
[Post edited 3 Apr 19:59]
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 12:12 - Apr 4 with 1260 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 11:25 - Apr 4 by WeWereZombies |
The testimony of just one individual who has been in the field reporting on the conflict is worth many millions of posting by all the keyboard warriors, isn't it. |
As of April 4:
95 journalists and media workers were confirmed dead: 90 Palestinian, 2 Israeli, and 3 Lebanese.
16 journalists were reported injured.
4 journalists were reported missing.
25 journalists were reported arrested.
Multiple assaults, threats, cyberattacks, censorship, and killings of family members.
https://cpj.org/2024/04/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/
95+16+4+25= 140 more "tragic mistakes" |  | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 12:46 - Apr 4 with 1182 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 10:02 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
I would imagine every military leader and every head of state will have drawn up numbers of acceptable civilian casualties as part of their campaign. The UK government would have most certainly have put forward what they believed was an acceptable number of civilian casualties (and their own military personnel) in order to take down Sadam Hussain. This isn’t exclusive to Usraeli. Yet this war seems to be fought under a microscope like no other.
I was reading a piece from a military expert (non Israeli) who wrote that the ratio of civilian deaths to Hamas fighters was lower than the norm in modern warfare. And that even with Hamas using civilian areas and hospitals as human shields. I dint know enough to conclude whether that’s true or not but imo the language casually used like Swansea did is unprecedented. I’m still waiting for him to link his post where he referred to Obama as murdering scum.
I have constantly condemned Netanyahu during this conflict, but a narrative has taken over where one becomes an apologist for genocide if they try to look objectively at Hamas casualty numbers , amongst other things.
Edit. I wish I wasn’t rushing iutbof the door because I don’t think I have articulated the last paragraph as well as I would have wanted. [Post edited 4 Apr 10:03]
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"I was reading a piece from a military expert (non Israeli) who wrote that the ratio of civilian deaths to Hamas fighters was lower than the norm in modern warfare."
Perhaps the military expert wasn't factoring reality into his ratio calculations:
"In practice, a terrorist is anyone the IDF has killed in the areas in which its forces operate," says a reserve officer who has served in Gaza.
https://archive.is/bMTGS#selection-803.0-803.144 | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 12:58 - Apr 4 with 1136 views | noggin |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 11:37 - Apr 4 by redrickstuhaart |
Once might be a mistake. Twice unfortunate... |
If anyone is saying these attacks were accidental, they really are too invested in Israel's right to kill anyone in Gaza. [Post edited 4 Apr 13:03]
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:09 - Apr 4 with 1074 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 12:58 - Apr 4 by noggin |
If anyone is saying these attacks were accidental, they really are too invested in Israel's right to kill anyone in Gaza. [Post edited 4 Apr 13:03]
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In the fog of war the use of clear and unambiguous language is important.
These so called "attacks" you talk of are "tragic mistakes" because they were committed by the most moral army in the world.
And that is assuming that any innocents have been killed at all:
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:12 - Apr 4 with 1065 views | lowhouseblue |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:00 - Apr 4 by ChorleyBoy |
"Yet this war seems to be fought under a microscope like no other."
Imagine what sort of microscope must have been used to dig up and expose this little incident. I mean, how many "tragic mistakes" happened to cause that?
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a war fought in a densely populated urban area against a well armed guerilla force that has had the best part of 2 decades to embed itself around and under residential areas and civilian infrastructure is going to look like that and is gong to have significant civilian casualties. nothing in that is at all unique to israel. whether that cost is acceptable, or israel's war aims are achievable, whether israel is doing enough to protect civilians, and whether they are doing enough to ensure sufficient humanitarian aid are of course different questions. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:15 - Apr 4 with 1037 views | noggin |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:12 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
a war fought in a densely populated urban area against a well armed guerilla force that has had the best part of 2 decades to embed itself around and under residential areas and civilian infrastructure is going to look like that and is gong to have significant civilian casualties. nothing in that is at all unique to israel. whether that cost is acceptable, or israel's war aims are achievable, whether israel is doing enough to protect civilians, and whether they are doing enough to ensure sufficient humanitarian aid are of course different questions. |
The Geneva Convention doesn't agree with you. | |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:16 - Apr 4 with 1035 views | lowhouseblue |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:15 - Apr 4 by noggin |
The Geneva Convention doesn't agree with you. |
you'll need to show your workings. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:22 - Apr 4 with 980 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:16 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
you'll need to show your workings. |
How about moving 2 million people into a very small area with no facilities, no hygiene and no food, and then bombing aid deliveries?
Not much more required frankly. |  | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:24 - Apr 4 with 968 views | noggin |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:16 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
you'll need to show your workings. |
It's quite simple. Destroying hospitals and Refugee camps, with civilians inside, is not a simple fact of urban warfare, as you seem to think. | |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:26 - Apr 4 with 955 views | NthQldITFC |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 10:02 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
I would imagine every military leader and every head of state will have drawn up numbers of acceptable civilian casualties as part of their campaign. The UK government would have most certainly have put forward what they believed was an acceptable number of civilian casualties (and their own military personnel) in order to take down Sadam Hussain. This isn’t exclusive to Usraeli. Yet this war seems to be fought under a microscope like no other.
I was reading a piece from a military expert (non Israeli) who wrote that the ratio of civilian deaths to Hamas fighters was lower than the norm in modern warfare. And that even with Hamas using civilian areas and hospitals as human shields. I dint know enough to conclude whether that’s true or not but imo the language casually used like Swansea did is unprecedented. I’m still waiting for him to link his post where he referred to Obama as murdering scum.
I have constantly condemned Netanyahu during this conflict, but a narrative has taken over where one becomes an apologist for genocide if they try to look objectively at Hamas casualty numbers , amongst other things.
Edit. I wish I wasn’t rushing iutbof the door because I don’t think I have articulated the last paragraph as well as I would have wanted. [Post edited 4 Apr 10:03]
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Whilst I take a significantly different view to you on a lot of this, rest assured that from my perspective at least you have quite rightly constantly condemned Netanyahu and his regime from the start, Glassers. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:26 - Apr 4 with 954 views | lowhouseblue |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:22 - Apr 4 by redrickstuhaart |
How about moving 2 million people into a very small area with no facilities, no hygiene and no food, and then bombing aid deliveries?
Not much more required frankly. |
those aren't the tests implied by the relevant geneva convention protocols. they don't prohibit proportionate warfare in urban areas. they also require intent. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:28 - Apr 4 with 937 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:12 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
a war fought in a densely populated urban area against a well armed guerilla force that has had the best part of 2 decades to embed itself around and under residential areas and civilian infrastructure is going to look like that and is gong to have significant civilian casualties. nothing in that is at all unique to israel. whether that cost is acceptable, or israel's war aims are achievable, whether israel is doing enough to protect civilians, and whether they are doing enough to ensure sufficient humanitarian aid are of course different questions. |
One wonders why 2 million people decide to live in such a small fraction of the country and where on earth Hamas gets its money from.
https://archive.is/38xoN
“Anyone who wants to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas,” said Netanyahu at a Likud party meeting in 2019. “This is part of our strategy, to divide the Palestinians between those in Gaza and those in Judea and Samaria.” | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:29 - Apr 4 with 920 views | lowhouseblue |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:28 - Apr 4 by ChorleyBoy |
One wonders why 2 million people decide to live in such a small fraction of the country and where on earth Hamas gets its money from.
https://archive.is/38xoN
“Anyone who wants to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas,” said Netanyahu at a Likud party meeting in 2019. “This is part of our strategy, to divide the Palestinians between those in Gaza and those in Judea and Samaria.” |
the answer to your second question is iran. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:31 - Apr 4 with 897 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:26 - Apr 4 by NthQldITFC |
Whilst I take a significantly different view to you on a lot of this, rest assured that from my perspective at least you have quite rightly constantly condemned Netanyahu and his regime from the start, Glassers. |
I'm sure the Palestine people who survive the tragic mistakes of the IDF are grateful to GB''s consistency on this matter. | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:33 - Apr 4 with 879 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:26 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
those aren't the tests implied by the relevant geneva convention protocols. they don't prohibit proportionate warfare in urban areas. they also require intent. |
I think you might want to look at the Fourth Convention. | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:35 - Apr 4 with 866 views | ChorleyBoy |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:29 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
the answer to your second question is iran. |
I'm sure you're right in part, but you didn't read the article I linked, did you?
Here's another:
"Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the top officer of the Israel Defense Forces in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, visited Qatar earlier this month on the instructions of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to plead with its leaders to continue their periodical payments to Hamas, Yisrael Beytenu party chief Avigdor Liberman claimed Saturday night."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-chief-top-general-visited-qatar-begged-it-t
[Post edited 4 Apr 13:43]
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:45 - Apr 4 with 815 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:35 - Apr 4 by ChorleyBoy |
I'm sure you're right in part, but you didn't read the article I linked, did you?
Here's another:
"Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the top officer of the Israel Defense Forces in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, visited Qatar earlier this month on the instructions of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to plead with its leaders to continue their periodical payments to Hamas, Yisrael Beytenu party chief Avigdor Liberman claimed Saturday night."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-chief-top-general-visited-qatar-begged-it-t
[Post edited 4 Apr 13:43]
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https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-ma
Out of 100’s of millions of dollars. That said, I don’t think the funding of Hamas is as much of an Issue as the 1/4 million missiles and shells that Iran has supplied to Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthi’s. | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:50 - Apr 4 with 788 views | lowhouseblue |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:33 - Apr 4 by redrickstuhaart |
I think you might want to look at the Fourth Convention. |
it's actually the protocol to the 4th convention if that helps. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 14:00 - Apr 4 with 736 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:50 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
it's actually the protocol to the 4th convention if that helps. |
The Fourth Geneva Convention
The Geneva Convention Relative to the
Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of
War of August 12, 1949
Civilians in areas of armed conflict and
occupied territories are protected by
the 159 articles of the Fourth Geneva
Convention.
Specific provisions include:
Arts. 13, 32
Civilians are to be protected from
murder, torture or brutality, and from
discrimination on the basis of race,
nationality, religion or political opinion.
Art. 14
Hospital and safety zones may be
established for the wounded, sick, and
aged, children under 15, expectant
mothers and mothers of children under
seven.
Art. 18
Civilian hospitals and their staff are to
be protected.
Arts. 24, 25
This Convention provides for the care of
children who are orphaned or separated
from their families. The ICRC’s Central
Tracing and Protection Agency is also
authorized to transmit family news
and assist with family reunifications,
with the help of Red Cross and Red
Crescent national societies.
Art. 27
The safety, honor, family rights, religious
practices, manners and customs of
civilians are to be respected.
Arts. 33-34
Pillage, reprisals, indiscriminate
destruction of property and the taking
of hostages are prohibited.
Arts. 33, 49
They are not to be subjected to
collective punishment or deportation.
Art. 40
Civilians cannot be forced to do
military-related work for an occupying
force.
Art. 54
They are to be paid fairly for any
assigned work.
Art. 55
Occupying powers are to provide food
and medical supplies as necessary to
the population and maintain medical
and public health facilities.
Arts. 55, 58
Medical supplies and objects used for
religious worship are to be allowed
passage.
Art. 59
When that is not possible, they are to
facilitate relief shipments by impartial
humanitarian organizations such as
the ICRC. Red Cross or other impartial
humanitarian relief organizations
authorized by the parties to the conflict
are to be allowed to continue their
activities.
Art. 64
Public officials will be permitted to
continue their duties. Laws of the
occupied territory will remain in force
unless they present a security threat.
Arts. 79-135
If security allows, civilians must be
permitted to lead normal lives. They are
not to be deported or interned—except
for imperative reasons of security. If
internment is necessary, conditions
should be at least comparable to those
set forth for prisoners of war.
Arts. 89-91
Internees are to receive adequate
food, clothing and medical care, and
protected from the dangers of war.
Art. 106
Information about internees is to be
sent to the Central Tracing Agency.
Arts. 108, 107
Internees have the right to send
and receive mail and receive relief
shipments.
Art. 132
Children, pregnant women, mothers
with infants and young children, the
wounded and sick and those who have
been interned for a long time are to be
released as soon as possible. | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 14:01 - Apr 4 with 725 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:12 - Apr 4 by lowhouseblue |
a war fought in a densely populated urban area against a well armed guerilla force that has had the best part of 2 decades to embed itself around and under residential areas and civilian infrastructure is going to look like that and is gong to have significant civilian casualties. nothing in that is at all unique to israel. whether that cost is acceptable, or israel's war aims are achievable, whether israel is doing enough to protect civilians, and whether they are doing enough to ensure sufficient humanitarian aid are of course different questions. |
Or rather than follow the knee jerk response Israel could have picked off the instigators over the course of time so that the outcome did not look like this as well as dialling down the tension with more humane policies.
Have you worked out the answer to those other questions yet!! | |
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| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 14:04 - Apr 4 with 689 views | ChorleyBoy |
You miss the point completely. The point is that the Netanyahu government is encouraging the funding of Hamas as a matter of policy. Yet he consistently refers to them as terrorists.
Do you know why he wants to fund the same group that is ideologically opposed to the existence of the people he leads? | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 14:29 - Apr 4 with 628 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 14:04 - Apr 4 by ChorleyBoy |
You miss the point completely. The point is that the Netanyahu government is encouraging the funding of Hamas as a matter of policy. Yet he consistently refers to them as terrorists.
Do you know why he wants to fund the same group that is ideologically opposed to the existence of the people he leads? |
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-i
The payments were stopped as a policy in 2021, and were to keep a semblance of functioning state of Gaza (I.e paying salaries etc). Some of their funding legitimately goes into schools and hospitals etc. Iran are happy to supply weapons mostly for free. | | | |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 14:44 - Apr 4 with 584 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Watching the Israeli military and government spokesmen on the latest Gaza murder on 13:35 - Apr 4 by ChorleyBoy |
I'm sure you're right in part, but you didn't read the article I linked, did you?
Here's another:
"Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the top officer of the Israel Defense Forces in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, visited Qatar earlier this month on the instructions of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to plead with its leaders to continue their periodical payments to Hamas, Yisrael Beytenu party chief Avigdor Liberman claimed Saturday night."
https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-chief-top-general-visited-qatar-begged-it-t
[Post edited 4 Apr 13:43]
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Not disagreeing with your points, but reference the Twitter (X) post you've linked, that picture is EXACTLY the same as the boot of my car at the moment, but there sure as sh1t isn't $15m in them.
A picture of three nondescript suitcases, in the back of a nondescript car, in a nondescript location is not evidence of $15m crossing the border into Gaza. |  |
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