| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police 23:26 - Oct 19 with 2821 views | Mullet |
That’ll calm things down for Villa then…. |  |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 23:33 - Oct 19 with 2090 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
I expect the usual posters to condemn the Tel Aviv Police as Anti-Semitic. |  | | |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 23:37 - Oct 19 with 2080 views | Bigalhunter |
Indeed, last thing we need is a green flag for men of fighting age to pop over to our country’s second city on a day trip, looking to cause unrest…
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:08 - Oct 20 with 1788 views | Mullet |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 23:33 - Oct 19 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I expect the usual posters to condemn the Tel Aviv Police as Anti-Semitic. |
I think it just goes to show that we can’t know all things at all times. When so many bad actors are spreading lies and hate to make money, it pays for the truth to come out. | |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:35 - Oct 20 with 1709 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:08 - Oct 20 by Mullet |
I think it just goes to show that we can’t know all things at all times. When so many bad actors are spreading lies and hate to make money, it pays for the truth to come out. |
Indeed. It’s very important that the truth comes out.
It was Hapoel fans throwing military grade smoke grenades that led to the Tel Aviv derby being called off. Not the Maccabi fans. Look at the colours in the videos doing the rounds. Red and white. The colours of Hapoel.
The fans clashing with the police appear to be Hapeol fans.
That won’t stop malign actors trying to spin this though. |  |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:51 - Oct 20 with 1659 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 23:33 - Oct 19 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I expect the usual posters to condemn the Tel Aviv Police as Anti-Semitic. |
What an absolutely disgusting comment. You know full well that the reason given for excluding Maccabi fans from Villa was the inability of the Police to keep their fans safe from potential protestors after the pre meditated “Jew Hunt” in Amsterdam.
[Post edited 20 Oct 14:58]
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:54 - Oct 20 with 1633 views | BlueNomad |
Perhaps our politicians should have kept out of it and their mouths shut then! In their mad scramble to be the loudest voices in support of Israel they now look a bit stupid. Not that we should expect any acknowledgment that, perhaps the WM Safety Group got it right! |  | | |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:00 - Oct 20 with 1599 views | BloomBlue |
Why?
We've had loads of violence at football games in the UK, when have the police then immediately ban the away fans?
Villa / Brum have been notorious for violent clashes between fans. Obviously they wont play each other in the league but if they are drawn together in the FA Cup then West Midlands police will stop the away fans, if its about the safety of fans.
Villa / Forest is nearly as bad. Again if it's just about safety etc the police will ban the away fans in the 2 league games this season.
If that happens I'll hold up my hands and admit I'm wrong.
But if they don't? Then very strange, let me think Tel Aviv a Jewish club. |  | | |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:02 - Oct 20 with 1591 views | Simonds92 |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:51 - Oct 20 by GlasgowBlue |
What an absolutely disgusting comment. You know full well that the reason given for excluding Maccabi fans from Villa was the inability of the Police to keep their fans safe from potential protestors after the pre meditated “Jew Hunt” in Amsterdam.
[Post edited 20 Oct 14:58]
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Or that they attacked locals in Amsterdam and caused chaos in the city. Was it last season that Legia Warsaw fans attacked fans at Villa park too? Maybe they're weary of a repeat of both scenarios, on safety grounds. | | | |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:07 - Oct 20 with 1557 views | vapour_trail |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:51 - Oct 20 by GlasgowBlue |
What an absolutely disgusting comment. You know full well that the reason given for excluding Maccabi fans from Villa was the inability of the Police to keep their fans safe from potential protestors after the pre meditated “Jew Hunt” in Amsterdam.
[Post edited 20 Oct 14:58]
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That’s not the reason WMP gave. You’ve simplified it massively. What a surprise.
It was to keep visiting supporters and local residents safe. And following on from incidents around the game in Amsterdam. There were two sides to that.
As you know.
Disgusting comments? |  |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:18 - Oct 20 with 1456 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:02 - Oct 20 by Simonds92 |
Or that they attacked locals in Amsterdam and caused chaos in the city. Was it last season that Legia Warsaw fans attacked fans at Villa park too? Maybe they're weary of a repeat of both scenarios, on safety grounds. |
Yeah probably..... by GlasgowBlue 16 Oct 20:50Funny enough, there weren't any attacks between fans. Ajax are know as the Spurs of the Netherlands with historical Jewish roots. Before the game the Maccabi and Ajax fans were partying together.
https://x.com/samanthaettus/status/1854918640182653122
*ignore the nasty dog whistle in the post about Middle Eastern migrants. It's the only way I could post the video.
btw I didn't coin the phrase Jew Hunt". Those were the words used by the people coordinating the attacks against anyone who looked Jewish or were helping Jews when they were being attacked.
https://x.com/Daniel_Sugarman/status/1855300902267084873
“jodenjacht” means Jew Hunt.
What seems to be missed or deliberately ignored in this is that the attacks against Jews were premeditated days before the game and not in response to the appalling behavior of some Maccabi fans.
There was no "Muslim hunt". Other than your post, that's the first time i've seen that phrase used to describe the behavior of the Maccabi fans. There were no charges against Maccabi fans for attacking "Muslims". There were prosecutions and convictions with regards to the people who organised and took part in the jodenjacht.
You seem determined to both sides that awful night, despite attacks on Jews in Amsterdam continuing in the days after the Maccabi fans had flown home.
To simplify, 1. Maccabi fans chanting anti-Arab songs and genocidal songs, ripping down Palestinian flags and engaging in hooliganism on match day is disgusting.
2. Pogroms to hunt Jews in the streets, throwing into canals, attempted stabbings, head-stamping organised days before match day, are far worse.
Surely you can see that 1) does not make 2) ok, and people should be able to admit that 2) is far worse and not use whatbouttery.
Anyway, that's me out. This was do to death at the time.
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:33 - Oct 20 with 1395 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
All Israeli teams should be banned from all sports but the usual double standards mean they are not. This being the case their supporters should be free to attend and the derby match has no bearing on this. |  |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:34 - Oct 20 with 1380 views | thebooks |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:35 - Oct 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. It’s very important that the truth comes out.
It was Hapoel fans throwing military grade smoke grenades that led to the Tel Aviv derby being called off. Not the Maccabi fans. Look at the colours in the videos doing the rounds. Red and white. The colours of Hapoel.
The fans clashing with the police appear to be Hapeol fans.
That won’t stop malign actors trying to spin this though. |
“That won’t stop malign actors trying to spin this though”.
What, by posting decontextualised, speculative videos from Twitter on a football message board? |  | | |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:37 - Oct 20 with 1360 views | noggin |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 09:07 - Oct 20 by vapour_trail |
That’s not the reason WMP gave. You’ve simplified it massively. What a surprise.
It was to keep visiting supporters and local residents safe. And following on from incidents around the game in Amsterdam. There were two sides to that.
As you know.
Disgusting comments? |
Chanting that there are no arab children in Gaza because “we killed them all” is not inciting violence. Anyone who says otherwise is antisemitic, or something. |  |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 10:04 - Oct 20 with 1274 views | BlueBadger |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:54 - Oct 20 by BlueNomad |
Perhaps our politicians should have kept out of it and their mouths shut then! In their mad scramble to be the loudest voices in support of Israel they now look a bit stupid. Not that we should expect any acknowledgment that, perhaps the WM Safety Group got it right! |
I don't understand all the fuss. Haven't our politicians and press just spent a large chunk of the past few months telling us what a menace to society middle Eastern men of fighting are and why we shouldn't be letting them into our communities? |  |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 12:12 - Oct 20 with 1113 views | BlueBadger |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 12:22 - Oct 20 with 1067 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:35 - Oct 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. It’s very important that the truth comes out.
It was Hapoel fans throwing military grade smoke grenades that led to the Tel Aviv derby being called off. Not the Maccabi fans. Look at the colours in the videos doing the rounds. Red and white. The colours of Hapoel.
The fans clashing with the police appear to be Hapeol fans.
That won’t stop malign actors trying to spin this though. |
Seriously, if "it's very important that the truth comes out" you shouldn't be relying on social media posts from a London-based Spurs fan whose personal opinion-based truth is based on indications drawn from single images inside the stadium of smoke bombs.
I mean, this source of truth thinks that the Bloomfield Stadium in Tel Aviv is the home stadium for Hapoel Tel Aviv. In fact, it's the home stadium for Hapoel, Maccabi Tel Aviv, as well as Bnei Yehuda Tel Aviv.
Not the best course of the truth when he's getting the most basic of details wrong. Perhaps he's just part of the alternative press which consistently saturates the news space with one-sided "newscrap" to be gobbled up by an eager audience not bright or discerning enough to check it's veracity.
I took a look at the Israeli press this morning and saw no such apportioning of blame.
It's almost as though an agenda is being peddled here. [Post edited 20 Oct 12:25]
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 12:39 - Oct 20 with 991 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 12:22 - Oct 20 by Cafe_Newman |
Seriously, if "it's very important that the truth comes out" you shouldn't be relying on social media posts from a London-based Spurs fan whose personal opinion-based truth is based on indications drawn from single images inside the stadium of smoke bombs.
I mean, this source of truth thinks that the Bloomfield Stadium in Tel Aviv is the home stadium for Hapoel Tel Aviv. In fact, it's the home stadium for Hapoel, Maccabi Tel Aviv, as well as Bnei Yehuda Tel Aviv.
Not the best course of the truth when he's getting the most basic of details wrong. Perhaps he's just part of the alternative press which consistently saturates the news space with one-sided "newscrap" to be gobbled up by an eager audience not bright or discerning enough to check it's veracity.
I took a look at the Israeli press this morning and saw no such apportioning of blame.
It's almost as though an agenda is being peddled here. [Post edited 20 Oct 12:25]
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They share a ground. Hapoel Tel Aviv were the designated home team that day. You may be unfamiliar with how groundsharing works when the two teams who share a ground play each other one of the teams is designated home and the other away. Maccabi will be the home team in the corresponding fixture.
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=95179f060af123b5&sxsrf=AE3TifNCHL_2mFK
The clips show it was the Hapoel fans launching flares and clashing with the police. It's like showing a clip of Manchester United fans causing trouble and people trying to put the blame on Manchester City fans.
Anyone dloing that is either incredibly stupid or incredibly dishonest. [Post edited 20 Oct 12:56]
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 13:25 - Oct 20 with 883 views | DJR |
I imagine the authorities in this country will contact the authorities in Israel to get to the bottom of what actually went on rather than rely on media and social media reports. [Post edited 20 Oct 13:26]
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 13:53 - Oct 20 with 804 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 08:51 - Oct 20 by GlasgowBlue |
What an absolutely disgusting comment. You know full well that the reason given for excluding Maccabi fans from Villa was the inability of the Police to keep their fans safe from potential protestors after the pre meditated “Jew Hunt” in Amsterdam.
[Post edited 20 Oct 14:58]
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WMP acted on Public Safety grounds and restricted attendance on a match, based on their intelligence and assessment of the risks.
Some posters on here attacked them as Anti Semitic.
Israeli Police acted on Public Safety grounds and cancelled a match based on their live intelligence and assessment of the risks.
So the same posters should make the same attack against them.
Or maybe, just maybe an alternative view is that Israeli football has a serious hooliganism problem right now and Police forces tasked with keeping public order and safety can't find the benefit in allowing their fans in.
Maybe they had additional intelligence regarding specific terrorist threats against fans or the game itself. Neither of us knows that, but it is consistent with what they have said so far.
But you went all in on them and decided that because some Dutch hooligans posted an Anti Semitic slur and call to attack them, that WMP are Anti Semitic for not spending whatever it would cost to guarantee the safety of every single fan, at all times, from airport to match to airport. If they are aware of significant threats the priority is Public Safety, and they need to consider every means of achieving that.
I don't know what you are on about with regards to a new low from me. I have posted very carefully about the situation in Palestine/Israel over the past two and a bit years. | | | |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:06 - Oct 20 with 739 views | lowhouseblue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 13:53 - Oct 20 by ArnoldMoorhen |
WMP acted on Public Safety grounds and restricted attendance on a match, based on their intelligence and assessment of the risks.
Some posters on here attacked them as Anti Semitic.
Israeli Police acted on Public Safety grounds and cancelled a match based on their live intelligence and assessment of the risks.
So the same posters should make the same attack against them.
Or maybe, just maybe an alternative view is that Israeli football has a serious hooliganism problem right now and Police forces tasked with keeping public order and safety can't find the benefit in allowing their fans in.
Maybe they had additional intelligence regarding specific terrorist threats against fans or the game itself. Neither of us knows that, but it is consistent with what they have said so far.
But you went all in on them and decided that because some Dutch hooligans posted an Anti Semitic slur and call to attack them, that WMP are Anti Semitic for not spending whatever it would cost to guarantee the safety of every single fan, at all times, from airport to match to airport. If they are aware of significant threats the priority is Public Safety, and they need to consider every means of achieving that.
I don't know what you are on about with regards to a new low from me. I have posted very carefully about the situation in Palestine/Israel over the past two and a bit years. |
"Some posters on here attacked them as Anti Semitic."
perhaps some people did. but regardless of that the police / safety body stated that they sought to ban travelling supporters because of the risk of protests against those supporters. that is an appalling precedent and amounts to a dereliction of the wmp's duty. it suggests that their inclination is to back down when confronted by the threat of violence and illegality rather than protect the rights of other groups. it is the police submitting to mob rule.
the situation in birmingham and the situation with the match in tel aviv are not comparable. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:20 - Oct 20 with 696 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 13:53 - Oct 20 by ArnoldMoorhen |
WMP acted on Public Safety grounds and restricted attendance on a match, based on their intelligence and assessment of the risks.
Some posters on here attacked them as Anti Semitic.
Israeli Police acted on Public Safety grounds and cancelled a match based on their live intelligence and assessment of the risks.
So the same posters should make the same attack against them.
Or maybe, just maybe an alternative view is that Israeli football has a serious hooliganism problem right now and Police forces tasked with keeping public order and safety can't find the benefit in allowing their fans in.
Maybe they had additional intelligence regarding specific terrorist threats against fans or the game itself. Neither of us knows that, but it is consistent with what they have said so far.
But you went all in on them and decided that because some Dutch hooligans posted an Anti Semitic slur and call to attack them, that WMP are Anti Semitic for not spending whatever it would cost to guarantee the safety of every single fan, at all times, from airport to match to airport. If they are aware of significant threats the priority is Public Safety, and they need to consider every means of achieving that.
I don't know what you are on about with regards to a new low from me. I have posted very carefully about the situation in Palestine/Israel over the past two and a bit years. |
"But you went all in on them and decided that because some Dutch hooligans posted an Anti Semitic slur and call to attack them, that WMP are Anti Semitic"
I'll give you the opportunity to delete that accusation. Link any post I made calling WMP anti semitic. Put up or shut up.
edit. You are still active on this thread and have't deleted that accusation. Phil takes a very dim view of false accusations like that and I'll report it for abuse if it isn't removed. [Post edited 20 Oct 14:28]
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:20 - Oct 20 with 698 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:06 - Oct 20 by lowhouseblue |
"Some posters on here attacked them as Anti Semitic."
perhaps some people did. but regardless of that the police / safety body stated that they sought to ban travelling supporters because of the risk of protests against those supporters. that is an appalling precedent and amounts to a dereliction of the wmp's duty. it suggests that their inclination is to back down when confronted by the threat of violence and illegality rather than protect the rights of other groups. it is the police submitting to mob rule.
the situation in birmingham and the situation with the match in tel aviv are not comparable. |
That's a partial reading of the reasons given, and also of the wider context around those fans.
I don't speak Hebrew, so can't translate, but if things that I have read that their fans have chanted were to be chanted in Aston then there would be considerable risk of major disturbances and public safety would be severely threatened. | | | |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:36 - Oct 20 with 617 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 13:25 - Oct 20 by DJR |
I imagine the authorities in this country will contact the authorities in Israel to get to the bottom of what actually went on rather than rely on media and social media reports. [Post edited 20 Oct 13:26]
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Villa's next but one opponents in Europe. Young Boys of Bern.
Only weeks ago, fans involved in riots at this fixture. People hospitalised. Second serious incident involving cub this year. Will their fans be banned from Villa Park?
https://www.bluewin.ch/en/sport/football/yb-fans-attack-police-and-injure-themse | |
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:39 - Oct 20 with 605 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:06 - Oct 20 by lowhouseblue |
"Some posters on here attacked them as Anti Semitic."
perhaps some people did. but regardless of that the police / safety body stated that they sought to ban travelling supporters because of the risk of protests against those supporters. that is an appalling precedent and amounts to a dereliction of the wmp's duty. it suggests that their inclination is to back down when confronted by the threat of violence and illegality rather than protect the rights of other groups. it is the police submitting to mob rule.
the situation in birmingham and the situation with the match in tel aviv are not comparable. |
Since the premeditated "Jew haunt" in Amsterdam, Maccabi fans have traveled to games against Beşiktaş, FK Bodø/Glimt, Parfos, Hamrun, Dynamo Kyiv, PAOK in European competition and are due to travel to Lyon next month. As far as I am aware there were no major security incidents. What makes this fixture against Villas such an exception? [Post edited 20 Oct 14:40]
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| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:41 - Oct 20 with 604 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Tel Aviv derby cancelled by Israeli police on 14:20 - Oct 20 by GlasgowBlue |
"But you went all in on them and decided that because some Dutch hooligans posted an Anti Semitic slur and call to attack them, that WMP are Anti Semitic"
I'll give you the opportunity to delete that accusation. Link any post I made calling WMP anti semitic. Put up or shut up.
edit. You are still active on this thread and have't deleted that accusation. Phil takes a very dim view of false accusations like that and I'll report it for abuse if it isn't removed. [Post edited 20 Oct 14:28]
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I should have checked before specifying you directly there, and I apologise for doing so. You don't say that in any of what remain of your posts on that thread. Several have been edited, though.
I will leave my error up, with this acknowledgement that it is an error, rather than edit it.
It was a different poster in that thread who accused WMP of (Anti Jewish) Racism. They didn't say "Anti Semitism" directly, but that is the term for Anti Jewish Racism. | | | |
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