| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:46 - Apr 26 with 2651 views | GeoffSentence |
You do realise only FT subscribers can see that. |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:48 - Apr 26 with 2642 views | unbelievablue |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:46 - Apr 26 by GeoffSentence |
You do realise only FT subscribers can see that. |
Yes. |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:50 - Apr 26 with 2643 views | SWGF |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:54 - Apr 26 with 2621 views | GeoffSentence |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:46 - Apr 26 by GeoffSentence |
You do realise only FT subscribers can see that. |
Feck all use to most of us on here then. | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:57 - Apr 26 with 2612 views | unbelievablue |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:54 - Apr 26 by GeoffSentence |
Feck all use to most of us on here then. |
Ignore it then. Jesus. | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:59 - Apr 26 with 2610 views | BlueBadger |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:50 - Apr 26 by SWGF |
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A more apt analogy would be 28 players at a table. One thinks they can throw their weight around, act like a t0sser and they'll still win, despite not really knowing how to play. The others all look at each other and grin. |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:02 - Apr 26 with 2597 views | WeWereZombies |
If you think this is so excellent perhaps you could share the highlights with us - is it possible to draft three paragraphs that gives us the bones of the piece? |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:03 - Apr 26 with 2592 views | unbelievablue |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:02 - Apr 26 by WeWereZombies |
If you think this is so excellent perhaps you could share the highlights with us - is it possible to draft three paragraphs that gives us the bones of the piece? |
It is possible yes, but I am tired and p!ssed off and I can't be arsed.
If I feel like it, I'll do it later. Alternatively, Mr Green's Twitter feed has a decent precis. | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:09 - Apr 26 with 2575 views | GeoffSentence |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 09:57 - Apr 26 by unbelievablue |
Ignore it then. Jesus. |
Just seems pointless posting a link hardly anyone will be able to follow. How about a summary. | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:10 - Apr 26 with 2570 views | unbelievablue |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:09 - Apr 26 by GeoffSentence |
Just seems pointless posting a link hardly anyone will be able to follow. How about a summary. |
Okay, sorry. Green's Twitter feed provides a decent enough precis. A summary doing it justice would take longer than I have, I'm afraid:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:22 - Apr 26 with 2542 views | WeWereZombies |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:10 - Apr 26 by unbelievablue |
Okay, sorry. Green's Twitter feed provides a decent enough precis. A summary doing it justice would take longer than I have, I'm afraid:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen |
Sorry, I'm old and have difficulty clicking through this Twitter stuff (at one point a message came up on screen declaring 'Pam Ayes is following you'!) but is the gist of things that the EU are ready for negotiations, have been for some time but it looks like the UK are going to take all century?
I finally got round to reading a Brexit article from last September's 'Accounting and Business' today and it states that our number of civil servants is at its lowest since the Second World War, we have almost no one to put forward for the negotiations. | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:26 - Apr 26 with 2525 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:10 - Apr 26 by unbelievablue |
Okay, sorry. Green's Twitter feed provides a decent enough precis. A summary doing it justice would take longer than I have, I'm afraid:
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen |
I don't understand twitter. |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:27 - Apr 26 with 2521 views | giant_stow |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:26 - Apr 26 by Lord_Lucan |
I don't understand twitter. |
I reckon its designed for young eyes. I look at a twitter page and just see a jumble of nothing. |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:28 - Apr 26 with 2513 views | WeWereZombies |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:27 - Apr 26 by giant_stow |
I reckon its designed for young eyes. I look at a twitter page and just see a jumble of nothing. |
Surely going to Carrot Road would have prepared you for that... | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:44 - Apr 26 with 2484 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:22 - Apr 26 by WeWereZombies |
Sorry, I'm old and have difficulty clicking through this Twitter stuff (at one point a message came up on screen declaring 'Pam Ayes is following you'!) but is the gist of things that the EU are ready for negotiations, have been for some time but it looks like the UK are going to take all century?
I finally got round to reading a Brexit article from last September's 'Accounting and Business' today and it states that our number of civil servants is at its lowest since the Second World War, we have almost no one to put forward for the negotiations. |
Pretty much, yep. I've just gone through part 1, it's picking statements from the various EU leaders made immediately after the referendum to show their initial position, eg:
- They respect the decision, and call on all Brits to do the same
- They are clear and consistent in what the process would be, immediately from day 1 after the referendum
- There were frustrations at the delays after Cameron scuttled off
- It's clear that there will be no pick and mix over the single market. Access requires meeting all EU's criteria, including freedom of movement
- Negotiations over a new relationship after Brexit need to be taken place separately from the exit deal. They call the tune wrt to exit, it's then up to us to request terms of a new relationship once we leave as a "third country" - we won't be given special treatment.
In short, Brexit was final and there'd be no renegotiation of our membership terms instead (countering Boris' comments that a 'no' vote could be used to lever a better deal but stay in the EU). Negotiation on exit would only take place after notification of A50 (whilst their position on that is clear, I believe it is wrong: A50 allows for informal discussions to start before it's triggered).
Key is there consistent assertion that the exit would be orderly and follow prescribed processes, and be transparent. They've upheld their end of that promise so far. |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 11:22 - Apr 26 with 2441 views | Swansea_Blue |
Part 2 - evolution of the EU's position
Focusses on the EU getting their house in order, so whilst we in the UK "obsessed about the first two sentences of Article 50", the EU focussed on Article 218(3) which sets out their process for negotiations and approvals (won't list here, but it goes through who does what, when and how from the EU's side, from agreeing the negotiation guidelines - the ones that are due to be agreed this week - through to when the negotiator recommends conclusion and the EU Council and the EU Parliament both have to approve the settlement by a qualified majority vote).
EU has been working on this structure since July 16.
Talks about how Michel Barnier was selected as the chief negotiation, and then the rest of his team identified by September (the EU's task force - 'TF50' as it's known).
Bernier's first job was to tour all 27 states to ensure all was on board and to establish what would be acceptable from their perspectives.
By the time this was all done (October 16) we were still no nearer triggering A50 and then talks about the encouragement given to us to actually make some progress.
Talks about the importance of the EU summit in Bratislava in the autumn, at which the united stance of the remaining states was cemented and they focussed on developing positive plan for the future. Also analyses Tusk's comments after the Bratislava summit to show how the EU started to talk more about internal reform, thereby turning Brexit from a negative into an opportunity.
Bratislava set the tone for May's speech in Birmingham where she introduced "global Britain" - implies a clear response to EU's show of unity and strength. Also by default, this new position was not consistent with any form of 'soft' brexit and required complete separation given the EU's insistence on the four freedoms if we wanted to access the single market. Talks about May's caginess in B'ham where she said that our approach to negotiation would not be disclosed, in strong contrast to the transparency shown by the EU.
Then discusses EU's views on 'hard' Brexit, including their clear dismissal of the 'having our cake and eating it' model from some quarters of the Brexit camp. And finishes with examining the Eu's comments on what Brext means for them and us - in short, there will be no winners.
Basically, whilst apparently factual the article seems to be going out of it's way to highlight the ordered, rapid and transparent nature of the EU's progress versus ours, which is quite the opposite. There's an element of bias here, but I think that fundamentally that seems to be the case (I'm trying to be objective, not sure if I'm succeeding!).
Nb. Haven't cut and pasted out of respect for their copyright - a good boy me! Both parts worth a read if you can get hold of them. Third part out tomorrow.. [Post edited 26 Apr 2017 11:24]
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 11:53 - Apr 26 with 2410 views | Binner |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:22 - Apr 26 by WeWereZombies |
Sorry, I'm old and have difficulty clicking through this Twitter stuff (at one point a message came up on screen declaring 'Pam Ayes is following you'!) but is the gist of things that the EU are ready for negotiations, have been for some time but it looks like the UK are going to take all century?
I finally got round to reading a Brexit article from last September's 'Accounting and Business' today and it states that our number of civil servants is at its lowest since the Second World War, we have almost no one to put forward for the negotiations. |
I'm not very au fait with these various electronic paraphernalia but I like Pam Ayres. If I had a device which said that she was following me I think I'd hang around for her to catch up and maybe have a chat. |  |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 11:58 - Apr 26 with 2395 views | GeoffSentence |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 10:22 - Apr 26 by WeWereZombies |
Sorry, I'm old and have difficulty clicking through this Twitter stuff (at one point a message came up on screen declaring 'Pam Ayes is following you'!) but is the gist of things that the EU are ready for negotiations, have been for some time but it looks like the UK are going to take all century?
I finally got round to reading a Brexit article from last September's 'Accounting and Business' today and it states that our number of civil servants is at its lowest since the Second World War, we have almost no one to put forward for the negotiations. |
So the EU is a bloated and overstaffed organisation that has civil servants free to take up any work as it comes, whereas the UK government is slim and streamlined. No wonder we are leaving this wasteful organisation. | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 12:03 - Apr 26 with 2385 views | WeWereZombies |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 11:53 - Apr 26 by Binner |
I'm not very au fait with these various electronic paraphernalia but I like Pam Ayres. If I had a device which said that she was following me I think I'd hang around for her to catch up and maybe have a chat. |
I was at first startled and then intrigued but in the end I have to surmise that it is David Allen Green she is following, and not me. I have heard that she has bad teeth anyway.... | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 12:16 - Apr 26 with 2362 views | WeWereZombies |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 11:58 - Apr 26 by GeoffSentence |
So the EU is a bloated and overstaffed organisation that has civil servants free to take up any work as it comes, whereas the UK government is slim and streamlined. No wonder we are leaving this wasteful organisation. |
Yeah, I know this is a whoosh but having people to spare (and young folk coming through who would otherwise be working in a call centre despite their 2.1 PPE degrees) ready to work the system seems a bit better than fielding an under strength team and no one on the bench for a play-off final... | |
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 14:29 - Apr 26 with 2287 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 11:58 - Apr 26 by GeoffSentence |
So the EU is a bloated and overstaffed organisation that has civil servants free to take up any work as it comes, whereas the UK government is slim and streamlined. No wonder we are leaving this wasteful organisation. |
Er, not according to the staffing figures. There are 46,356 people working for the EU organisations apparently:
http://theconversation.com/how-many-people-work-for-the-eu-59702
"At first glance, these figures might seem quite high, particularly if we look at the commission. But for an administrative staff covering institutions serving over 500m people it’s a shoestring operation, especially when we compare it to civil services operating at the national, or even local levels. Compare this, for example, to the 33,477 people employed by Birmingham City Council, covering a population of 1.1m in 2015-16."
Or we could compare to the UK civil service, which employed 439,323 as of March 2015. So that's over ten times the number of employees for a population nearly ten times as small. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorperson
That equates to:
EU civil service - 1 employee per 10,800 residents
UK civil service - 1 employee per 148 residents
So no, not bloated at all.
edit - just seen I'm in whoosh territory  . Still, the others who genuinely bang on on about how bloated and wasteful the EU is need to be aware of the facts. [Post edited 26 Apr 2017 14:31]
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| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 15:28 - Apr 26 with 2263 views | GeoffSentence |
| Excellent 3 part Brexit piece in the FT by David Allen Green on 14:29 - Apr 26 by Swansea_Blue |
Er, not according to the staffing figures. There are 46,356 people working for the EU organisations apparently:
http://theconversation.com/how-many-people-work-for-the-eu-59702
"At first glance, these figures might seem quite high, particularly if we look at the commission. But for an administrative staff covering institutions serving over 500m people it’s a shoestring operation, especially when we compare it to civil services operating at the national, or even local levels. Compare this, for example, to the 33,477 people employed by Birmingham City Council, covering a population of 1.1m in 2015-16."
Or we could compare to the UK civil service, which employed 439,323 as of March 2015. So that's over ten times the number of employees for a population nearly ten times as small. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorperson
That equates to:
EU civil service - 1 employee per 10,800 residents
UK civil service - 1 employee per 148 residents
So no, not bloated at all.
edit - just seen I'm in whoosh territory . Still, the others who genuinely bang on on about how bloated and wasteful the EU is need to be aware of the facts. [Post edited 26 Apr 2017 14:31]
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Yeah, I was just getting it in before the brexiteers piped up. Interesting figures by the way. | |
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