well said wadzilla. what would people prefer, Ipswich to play nice attacking football but be stuck in the mid-table of the championship forever? OR, to win promotion playing less attractive football? i know what id prefer.

im not going to start saying im not proud of our championship status cos i am, its a great league, so i dont take it for granted. If you asked a fan of a league 1 or 2 team they'd be more then happy with being in the championship. but, in football you have to be ambitious, if we have to sacrifice nice, passing football to get into the prem AND stay there, then so be it. football is about winning, sod arsenal, when people look back in ten, twenty, thirty years, are they gonna talk about what nice football arsenal played and how it doesnt matter they won f**k all, or are they going to talk about how many trophies man united won, or how many barca won? and those two teams do the hard, ugly stuff too!

and as for blueknight, i think he has been unfairly criticised. mascherano, xavi and other players have specific roles because they play at the very highest levels of football, they are specialists, capable of playing certain roles, in certain systems that the likes of leadbitter and norris can not. this is why they are paid so much money and win so many trophies. at championship level, having two similar, hard working, organised and industrious central midfielders is great, as long as you have attacking wingers to create chances and decent strikers to put them away.
it smacks of hubris, some of you seem to have ideas above your station when it comes to town. im not one for saying 'dont moan and support your team', as fans you should be free to do as you choose but you can see why other fans get fed up with all the negativity and snide comments. i think certain supporters would enjoy supporting their club a bit more if they came back down to earth to watch the games.

naa, excepted, thanku

mightytown: I don't agree that playing good football means we'd be stuck mid-table. It's entirely possible to challenge in this division by playing good football.

I'll agree that staying in the Prem with 'nice' football would be far less likely but as I've said before, I'd much rather watch 23 games of decent football and challenge in the Championship than play boring football and get promoted and then survive in the Prem. Which seems to be at odds with you. Fair enough, but for me it's the journey and not the destination that's important.

As for Arsenal, no the history books won't go on about their great football but my point is that their fans are watching them now, they're not worrying about what words will be written in books in the years to come.

And anyway, if Arsenal could keep their key players fit they would be in with a very good chance of winning the league.

We're no Arsenal obviously, but the argument that you have to huff and puff and hoof and punt to get out of this division - or get on in English football - I think is incorrect.

@Naa Aston Villa do it and there games are exciting. They have an organised defence and play a direct style of football. Its not the style of football that provides the entertainment, its the players with their pace and flair. You are right in saying Arsenal's main problem is their squad depth but thats because Wenger doesn't like having to buy players.

naa, with all due respect you have completely missed my point. im not saying that the only way to get promotion or to get on in english football is to 'huff and puff and hoof and punt', these are your words, not mine.
what im saying is that if we have to change our style of play to progress then so be it. it is a means to an end. your argument that you'd 'rather watch 23 games of decent football and challenge in the championship then play boring football and get promoted and then survive in the prem' is rather contradictory. you want us to challenge but only if we play a nice brand of football, that in itself wont allow us to challenge. i cant believe you have no ambition for ipswich other then to play a 'decent game'.

arsenal fans may take comfort in the fact that they play an attractive brand of football but ask any arsenal fan if they'd compromise that brand of football for multiple champions league and premiership titles then i know what they'd go for.

you say the journey is more important then the destination yet you seem unable to take the good with the bad.

mightytown: OK, but when you say we have to change our style of play, what change are you referring to? What style will we have to play to get out of this division? This season has already seen very little style and I sense it will be further along those lines next season.

And I wasn't contradicting myself, you are saying that nice football won't allow us to challenge. I don't agree with that viewpoint. I think playing nice football will allow us to challenge. Things haven't changed that much since Burley's team played quality football and challenged every year. Burley's team didn't play flouncey football (we had Taricco and Mowbray after all) but they played an exciting pass and move game that was fun to watch.

As for ambition. Obviously I'd love us to be in the Prem but you are right in that I don't want that at the expense of watching us play good football. If there isn't entertainment on offer who cares about the end result? Every now and then you have to churn a result out, and that's fine, but not for a whole season.

As for Arsenal fans, I've no idea what they'd say to be honest. Obviously a lot of them were brought up on the most boring football ever, so they may be happy to trade, but I wouldn't want to put words in their mouth.

And your last sentence makes no sense. I've said the journey is more important than ther destination. Therefore, by definition, I don't want to suffer the bad just to get to the desired destination - especially if the destination means continued ugly football to stay where we are.

OK, let's stop talking about Arsenal, Chelsea and Villa, because we can never aspire to them - we don't have the resources. We are a small town club.

What we can aspire to is Stoke and Bolton.

Bolton get dismal crowds, despite being in the Prem for 10 years straight (even factoring in the busy north-west their crowds are rubbish) and they've just hired a manager known for his passing style of football. Any co-incidence?

Stoke are seen as role-models for small clubs wanting to survive in the Prem. But they win around 10 games a season (give or take a couple) and play ugly football and score most of their goals from throw-ins (it'll be interesting to see if they can stay up with Delap, he's already old).

So that's what we're aspiring to like it or not.

Some of us would be happy with that, and I can't argue, it's your opinion. I wouldn't, is all I'm saying.

But I do believe we can challenge in this divsion playing good football. There's no reason why not.

naa, i'm sorry mate but you clearly havent understood my point.

Wigan are a town club in the Premier League playing attractive football, it doesn't have to be like Bolton or Stoke (who are a city, to boot)

Well fair enough Mighty but it might prove useful for you to explain it to me then. How else can I get it?

Zombies: fair point. Proof that there is hope but that almost proves my point. I'm saying that we don't have to play this 'conservative' type of game just to get us promoted etc. Others seem to be saying that we do (at least I thought that that's what MightyTown was saying).

alright naa mate, im going for a kickabout but ill try and explain a bit better when back. wasnt trying to be spiky with ya, just felt i had explained and wasnt sure how else to put it. either way come on you blues!! ; )