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Comment | Frank: Town Trip Our Most Difficult Remaining Game
at 14:32:45
It’s patronising and condescending at this point.
‘Potentially’ as in every game at this level is tough, but over 35 games clearly Fulham and Wolves have been significantly better than us.
We’ve won one home game, and are on a club record of home defeats.
I miss the Roy Hodgson interview style ‘are you taking the piss, son. |
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Comment | Moyes: McKenna's a Great Young Manager Doing a Fantastic Job at a Real Football Club
at 13:20:25
@wooly74 you’re probably the same age as me, we’ve seen a lot of dross, but some great times too.
Personally o don’t get the normalisation that playing in, or getting promoted from the third division was anything special, I really don’t, Plymouth have aged like an old sock too, so that was a poor six months for KM (same record as cook) followed by a really good 13 months.
Next was an exceptional 12 months, as good as anything, as you rightly say, fantastic. A team with belief and momentum, achieving way beyond the sum of its parts, and KM deserves nothing but full credit…, although I watched most games that season.., and we got SO many points with VERY fine margins, like I’ve never seen in any season, born from a huge team spirit though.
But equally this season, in the context of investment has been very poor, the club records aren’t good, performances getting worse, and a real lack of belief in the group.
When you add that he spent all summer trying to leave us, and the money we spent keeping him, we have missed a generational opportunity.
My view is Ashton was lazy. Keeping McKenna was easy. Making him the 5th best paid manager, based on EFL form came with low downside to his career. If he’d let McKenna leave because the money he wanted wasn’t realistic (it really wasn’t for where we were at) and we got relegated with a new manager, he’d be getting dogs abuse now.
But with the money we spent we could EASILY have attracted a Pereira level of manager.., world class, won trophies all over the world, truly elite, and for less money.
Where would we be, with this group of players, with a world class manager. Relegated? .., with him or similar, probably mid table.
That’s thro difference.
We aren’t league one. We aren’t championship. We WERE in the best league in the world, with the best resources in world football, that was our chance.
So maybe McKenna will be that good, who knows, but he isn’t right now, and no I wouldn’t have sacked him either, unless it was ‘pay me world class money or I sign for Brighton’ and we don’t know if that’s true.
Saying McKenna sensational season in the championship, makes him elite, and world class doesn’t wash. It’s nonsense, more now than ever, the gap is huge.
It didn’t used to be so big…, but Jewell, Keane, Mick etc they all had those seasons in the championship, and not in the prem, they all failed to make the step and we are talking getting Wigan and Bradford promoted, and Sunderland from bottom to top in a season, so equally impressive.
We’ll see on McKenna.
On Ashton. That decision was him putting his career first and not taking a risk, and also not having the global contacts and networks to do it, we really can’t pretend this season has been anything but failure. It isn’t a process when you soend so much you have to sell your best assets.
Leeds fascinate me.
Similar position, only they actually know Farke isn’t good enough.
Wonder if their top execs will be lazy and pit themselves first, keep him and say ‘we had to’
I suspect they’ll look at us and wolves.., and he’ll be gone before a ball is kicked, and if they get a world class manager, maybe that will work.
Who knows. Not us old timers for sure. |
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Comment | Moyes: McKenna's a Great Young Manager Doing a Fantastic Job at a Real Football Club
at 18:28:13
Everyone should support KM, he worked the oracle, did the impossible and did it out of thin air. Also true he spent £150 million and btw is paid MORE than Moyes who has you say is truly elite. Both things can be and are indeed true. Record home defeats, and one of the worst seasons ever, and getting worse by the day…, but he’s young and maybe is learning his trade still, and could come back much stronger. It’s all true. Let’s see if momentum is more instructive of what comes next, or it’s a step back…, on Ashton though, he isn’t getting better, that’s what all his experience at this level suggests, and he is way short of the required standard. Our talent ID was so far off this year as to be criminal. |
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Comment | Moyes: McKenna's a Great Young Manager Doing a Fantastic Job at a Real Football Club
at 17:34:37
I love that level of conviction Bert. Our nanger did though provisionally agree to leave us last summer. Leveraging a monster contract not to leave, that is the reality. And our US owners have been world class in their support; but it is 100% about the money, for ORG at least, we’ve been risk capital with huge potential upside.
It will be fascinating how it plays out, but the era of US money flooding to the prem looks in danger. We were a cheap investment, with eye watering upside, with a strong $ and weak £. That’s changed by over 20% in the last few months.
We’ve got our ducks in a row, which is fantastic, but if the deal was structured today, it likely wouldn’t happen.
US sports franchises got much cheaper, we got significantly more expensive.
The timing of the BPSP deal couldn’t have worked any better for us. And probably a good thing the economics will mess up the prem being too US centric …, if it’s going ‘franchise’ we need to be inside that particular tent. That’s why we need huge ambition, it’s very obvious where it ends, and it is about the money.., it’s musical chairs.., if we aren’t in the prem, when the big clubs get their way (and they will) then it’s game over as a potential big club. A reduced size top league is inevitable. And it will be justified by the gulf in quality, and European expansion, the media narrative is well under way. The money gets what the money wants. |
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Comment | McKenna: It's the Setbacks That Make You Stronger
at 14:30:28
I have some empathy for McKenna, selling this narrative isn’t easy.
I can’t imagine there was a an expectation we’d go down. How do Ashton and McKenna sell the ownership group to invest £150 million in players, and give KM a champions league contract .., oh, and there’s a 75% chance we get relegated.
It’s obvious everyone bought in to a high probability of survival and long term growth and development.
And the ‘one step back’ narrative only works if you haven’t invested to that extent.
Otherwise you have to sell players, only the ones good enough by definition leave, and bouncing back isn’t guaranteed.
If Ashton and McKenna thought we might go down.., how did we spend so much, and yet we start next season with just ONE player in the squad that can play in McKennas crucial ‘double pivot’ roles.., and Sam will be 34.
That’s not the contingency of a management team that planned for that outcome.., I’m afraid we as a club we suffered with all the media bubble and hype last summer .
The whole management group and even ownership bought in to Ashton and McKenna being truly elite, and giving them amazing financial support, and they never were at those levels of hype.., as much as that hurts, it’s clearly true. Talented, yes. At these levels, no. Not close either.
If the owners use Luton Town as the benchmark, a club with no legacy investment before promotion, who spent just £25 million, and got 24 points. Which will likely be more than us.., then Ashtons ‘one step back for two forwards’ narrative I suspect will get him short shrift.
Only the internal group know the conversations last summer.., so let’s wait and see.
You don’t spend £150 million, give KM more money than Emry, Howe, Frank, Moyes etc etc .., and end up selling our best players 12 months later, and developing our talent at a level we already know they excel at, where they won’t be tested and improve to the required standards the year after. That doesn’t happen at that level of business.., there’s zero risk management in that plan.
I think as the owners previously said ‘don’t piss in my boots and telling me it’s raining’
The premier league is so good now, you don’t develop talent in the championship to make the adjustment. Maybe when Ashton was at WBA it was a viable strategy.
Look at Lewis Potter. Ripped up the championship, spends two whole years at Brentford adjusting to the level, now he looks good again.
If he was at Hull those years, he wouldn’t be at this level. Same for Bowen too and others. They only grow working at the higher level.
McKenna knows relegation is a disaster for development. He just can’t be honest.
We blew a generational opportunity isn’t good for his career or Ashtons.
He needs to be careful though.
We’ve got a lot worse this season, and he’s in danger of gas lighting very loyal fans who have backed him and backed him, and still do. He still rightly enjoys huge goodwill, but he needs far more honesty in his approach.
Some more honesty and humility wouldn’t go a miss.., mistakes have been made by ME and we learn and adapt.
He doesn’t strike me as being flexible and adapting very much lately. Leif incapable of getting goal side, ever, is a huge coaching failure, of the whole group, for many years, that’s a massive red flag in player development.
He’s still the talented championship manager he was 12 months ago.., not much growth evident so far.
Time will tell. |
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Comment | Town Spend Least in Premier League On Agents
at 11:06:16
This has been our biggest failure and weakness. I think we would have finished above Wolves under O’Neil. We seemed to have more belief, and the difference in quality Cuhna aside, isn’t big.
But they have global reach, and networks, and leveraged them to bring in a manager who was elite, and has won titles across the world, including a Portuguese league title…, he wasn’t operating in the EFL, and Wolves as a club don’t, it’s a world class league, that needs world class networks and relationships. They used that and they’ll get the £200 million benefit of that.
We spent £155 million on players, and world class wages for out management t last summer.
Yet the one essential dynamic, that of Tories networks, relationships, talent ID and global reach was neglected.
And he’s, it’s true these things take time to develop, but you can buy those relationships, other clubs do all the time, you bring in the senior executives, who have spent a lifetime building those networks. It can happen very quickly, with the right focus and investment.
Not doing it quickly, was a choice, and a poor strategic one.
I worry the egos above KM are too big to see the weakness, and bring in truly elite executives with gkobel reach, it looks like a decision born of insecurity.
If you spend world leading levels of investment (£155 million) you can prioritise a top executive team, with world class contacts and networks.
We didn’t do that, and the value other clubs get from theirs, we can see in the value metrics of signings, managers, and quality in the pitch.
I’m sure the owners get it, they’ve been unbelievable in their support so far. |
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Comment | Johnson: We've Done the Club Proud
at 21:03:28
He clearly has talent, but his body language too often reminds me of JET, it doesn’t hurt enough, and for a lot of the season, going through the motions.., there’s a player there for sure though, fingers crossed KM can get more consistency from him, but ‘JET’ is a red flag.., you can’t coach passion and desire.
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Comment | Town Spend Least in Premier League On Agents
at 20:11:03
@bluesman so the more a club spends, the lower expectations should be? I think maybe you drank the kool aid. That’s not true, Wolves spent very little (net) over about three seasons recently in the prem. PSR works over three years, so there is no 10 year measure: and by definition, surely every promoted team has achieved the same level of performance. Leif isn’t worth £1 million and Cam and Sam etc aren’t worth peanuts.
We’ve spent badly. £150 million, for what is £80 value now, contrasted to Brighton, Forest, Brentford. Fulham, Bournemouth who sign players for £3 to 7 million, now worth £70 million plus each. The clubs doing the best, sign players low, sell high, and re-invest, and they have the networks and pay agents to facilitate that.., I’d happily pay an agent for a Mktkma, Mbeuno, Cuhna etc etc .., when we’re stuck in EFL and not global markets, our agent fees will be less, that’s not a positive KPI. |
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Comment | McKenna: Recruitment Work Leaves Us in a Very, Very Strong Position Going Into Next Season
at 20:44:02
I’m really starting to worry about KM, I know all managers spin and media is just a game, and a circus at times, but I worry he actually believes this nonsense. What has 10 years spending got to do with anything, that’s not how PSR or football work. We spent a vast sum on EFL players, and he’s, many are young players, but none of them look good enough, and with PSR rules, the two that are, won’t be here. We’ll sell Delap for half his market value, and because of that Hutchinson will find we can get any profit from a deal. We don’t have a single other player we bought that is good enough, or will be good enough with another 12 months coaching. Have the group improved under KM in this 12 months, are we more competitive now than in August? .., we have Burns, Ognenne, Hutchinson, Johnson, Chaplin, Broadhead, Clarke, Sammie, Taylor, Philogene .., all which are a huge amount of resource, all good EFL players, not one of which is anywhere near the required or ever will be.., Phil and Hutch, possibly, but way short at the moment.., and quite simply the financial mess means they won’t be here…, we don’t get a 10 year PSR.., we get 3 years the same as everyone, and we can’t invest even if promoted, because we lose our league one season, and replace it with a season where we have the manager a champions league contract, and spent bet £130 million, on a long list of players not good enough.., to even intimate that Greaves and Muric et al will ever be EPL quality, is to take supporters for granted. And treat them like completely emotionally invested idiots…, anyone can see they won’t ever be good enough, and we will struggle to move them on.., it’s pure deflection.., and some journalists need to ask some honest questions, especially around the impacts of this years spending on PSR.., it’s like a collective head burying in the sand moment.., which suits Ashton and KM, but will hit many fans really hard when the penny drops.., we have a significant amount of profit to find this summer, and moving players out, isn’t a KM strength. Sigh.., still, at least we get to see Cameron Humphrey’s back home. |
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Comment | Delap Release Clause £30m
at 22:46:19
@bazza8564 I so wish that was true. We can’t refuse an offer of £30 million. So nobody will bid more , there wouldn’t be any point.
Somone could bid £100 million, but we have to accept £30 million so it’s only about who offers him and his agent the best terms now, and obviously at £30 million, that will be a huge package because it’s still great value. Obviously where he wants to play will be a factor too. We’ve made it impossible to get market value or even close.., Delap and his agents have played a blinder.., Ashton.., less so! .., can’t believe he wouldn’t have agreed to 40-50 million, especially when players have all the power anyway if they want to leave. Its like we bought a very young player who’s full
potential Ashton didn’t either understand or believe in.., poor. Actually, negligent.
The bigger worry is we’ll still be well behind PSR and I don’t think we have many players we can sell, so we’re struggling big time.., this has vibes of selling Bent, Holland, Herman etc for way below market value.., we spent 22 years recovering from that. |
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Comment | Delap Release Clause £30m
at 22:35:27
@warfarinman .., I love that optimism. But sadly, firstly WE need him to go. Even £15 million profit, will be essential under PSR. We don’t have many sellable assets, if any, they’ve been so poor, so we will 100% need 10’s of millions to have any chance on governance.
Secondly. What’s he actually worth. £50 or £60 million. So you can spend £30 million, and easily give him a contract worth £15 million plus, and still have a great deal on the balance sheet, it’s such an easy deal for big clubs to do…, he’s not going to turn down a big club, on the sort of package this means clubs can put together, to stay in the championship .., and he shouldn’t either, he’s earned the opportunity.
It’s gross negligence in our part, just like the KM champions league contract, he’ll be rather signing a new contract on reduced terms or leaving too, we made a real mess of our business this last 12 months, financially, we’ve never done worse than this.., it’s so naive, so unprofessional.
He’ll get a £5 million signing on fee, and triple his wages, because that’s his actual value.., what a shame we didn’t see that value when we signed him, who signs a player so young, in this market, and has such a poor sell on .., the owners should and I expect will be furious.., we’ve spend £130 million, wasted most of it, and the bit we spent brilliantly well, we didn’t protect the asset. I don’t see how Ashton survives if this is even close to true. |
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Comment | Delap Release Clause £30m
at 22:25:23
I’m totally done with Ashton. Awful summer, awful January, champions league contract to KM, and now this. We get £30 million, and he’s guaranteed to leave because a) the other £130 million we spent clearly isn’t good enough, and aren’t sellable assets and b) no club will bid more, when they can use that money to pay Delap a big signing on fee and wages.., he’s going to be incredibly well off from our failure to protect our club. When you factor PSR, and losing a league one season and replacing it with a season where we spent more than anyone in Europe (almost) we are in serious trouble.., expect we’ll now need another circa £20 million in profit to have any hope of meeting governance. It’s SO poor, like we were playing at the casino.., who do we have that anyone will buy, in 45 years as a supporter we’ve never been this bad off the pitch in one year. We have 27 inside forwards (none at this level) and a central midfield of a 34 and 35 year old plus Jack.., the owners have been absolutely world class, but they must be furious. They should be.., this is Ashtons second massive failure at this level, this time he wasted a generational opportunity. £30 million for a £60 million asset, it’s gross negligence (if true). |
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Comment | Burgess Linked With La Liga Move
at 13:05:40
He’s been an outstanding defender. Committed, reads the game well, and better distribution than he’s given credit. Hard to believe he’s started so few games, he was a rock against Man Utd. It’s been such a confused mess of team selection, the first time KM has had huge money, and a significant number of players coming in. With only an unchanged side once in the league, it’s been chaotic management, if we’re honest, and Cam is a victim of that. He even put Harry Kane in his back pocket for Australia, he couldn’t have done anymore.., but he didn’t cost huge money, isn’t on a huge contract, and we likely wouldn’t be able to move the new signings on if we wanted to, because they’ve been so poor. He’s a victim of muddled talent ID, poor team management, and not being a big signing. At 29 his best years are ahead of him, and he’ll do brilliant at the very highest level. Good luck Cam.., ran through walls for us. |
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