| Martin McGuinness 21:05 - Jan 19 with 29461 views | vapour_trail |
Farewell to a political heavyweight. One of the key players in the creation of the current relatively peaceful northern Ireland and a man with a pretty grim past.
He will be missed. |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 09:42 - Jan 20 with 2314 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Martin McGuinness on 08:12 - Jan 20 by oldbluestu |
Big difference the army were sent to do a job, McGuinness and the IRA were killing for fun.
If it was for a cause then after it was over why didnt he tell the families the location of the bodies of those killed.
But thankfully he's ill and hopefully it's a long painful illness lasting 20+ years, punishment by his wonderful God. |
Your last paragraph is no better than our Irish friend's post on the Queen. |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 09:42 - Jan 20 with 2317 views | BergholtBru |
| Martin McGuinness on 09:35 - Jan 20 by brazil1982 |
Quite staggering isn't it. He's obviously looking for bites. I hope to never meet him at an Ipswich match, I won't make this anti-British man very welcome.
Typical bitter Irish.
Fast forward 20 years and we'll have people on here praising ISIS. |
Bitter Irish definitely, not typical imo. The Irish people I have met have been superb and I could not have been made more welcome on my visits there. This guy is sad, however, and does the Irish people no good whatsoever. |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 09:44 - Jan 20 with 2308 views | Keno |
| Martin McGuinness on 09:35 - Jan 20 by brazil1982 |
Quite staggering isn't it. He's obviously looking for bites. I hope to never meet him at an Ipswich match, I won't make this anti-British man very welcome.
Typical bitter Irish.
Fast forward 20 years and we'll have people on here praising ISIS. |
and what about that nasty Germans and horrid French!! and dont get me started on the Romans, Saxons and Romans!! B'stards the lot of em!!
In any situation where where there has been conflict if you want peace there has to be a moment where what happens tomorrow is more important than what happened yesterday.
I am just grateful that no one else has been killed or maimed by the combatants on both sides of that conflict and, in particular that the vast majority people of Northern Ireland can going about their lives in peace looking forward not back |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 10:13 - Jan 20 with 2251 views | factual_blue |
| Martin McGuinness on 09:35 - Jan 20 by brazil1982 |
Quite staggering isn't it. He's obviously looking for bites. I hope to never meet him at an Ipswich match, I won't make this anti-British man very welcome.
Typical bitter Irish.
Fast forward 20 years and we'll have people on here praising ISIS. |
There are at least two Bloody Sundays in 20th century Irish history in which innocent people were killed by the British Army. I don't think being angry about those makes people 'bitter' or at the very least disappointed by the army's behaviour 'anti-British'. |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 10:13 - Jan 20 with 2259 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Martin McGuinness on 22:48 - Jan 19 by Lord_Lucan |
Do your history young boy. 27? Lollers! |
The nature of your comments suggests that your knowledge of history on this matter is at least as one sided as his is. |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 10:21 - Jan 20 with 2246 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Martin McGuinness on 23:24 - Jan 19 by factual_blue |
I think there are people who need to read a bit more about Irish history. |
Correct. There is not a great deal of similarity between Irish history and "the troubles" as reported by the BBC in the 80's. | |
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| Martin McGuinness on 10:26 - Jan 20 with 2230 views | vapour_trail |
| Martin McGuinness on 09:35 - Jan 20 by brazil1982 |
Quite staggering isn't it. He's obviously looking for bites. I hope to never meet him at an Ipswich match, I won't make this anti-British man very welcome.
Typical bitter Irish.
Fast forward 20 years and we'll have people on here praising ISIS. |
Typical bitter Irish.
I'm English. But thanks for getting personal. | |
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| Martin McGuinness on 10:33 - Jan 20 with 2200 views | Archer4721 |
What a typical TWTD thread full of nonsense from people who really haven't a clue what they're talking about.
At least the Irish lad on this thread has a first hand experience of what he's witnessed over the years which many of the people commenting on this thread haven't. |  | | |
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| Martin McGuinness on 10:44 - Jan 20 with 2171 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Martin McGuinness on 10:33 - Jan 20 by Archer4721 |
What a typical TWTD thread full of nonsense from people who really haven't a clue what they're talking about.
At least the Irish lad on this thread has a first hand experience of what he's witnessed over the years which many of the people commenting on this thread haven't. |
Since I left England over 15 years ago I've met a lot of people with very different histories of the same events.
I know countless Irish, Argentinians, Greeks, Serbs and of course Basques and Spanish.
It's very clear that the winners get to write the history.
""When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." - Dresden James. | |
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| Martin McGuinness on 10:51 - Jan 20 with 2156 views | Keno |
| Martin McGuinness on 10:44 - Jan 20 by caught-in-limbo |
Since I left England over 15 years ago I've met a lot of people with very different histories of the same events.
I know countless Irish, Argentinians, Greeks, Serbs and of course Basques and Spanish.
It's very clear that the winners get to write the history.
""When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic." - Dresden James. |
slightly off tangent I was talking to young german lad who was about 20 and asked him about how WW2 is taught is schools there and I thought it quite interesting that he said 'they teach us that it was Nazi's who caused it not Germans'
The irony was he is from Dresden and we had the conversation at an RAF benevolent fund event which asked to go to cos 'I like the airplanes from WW2 that will be there' | |
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| Martin McGuinness on 11:34 - Jan 20 with 2087 views | bluebud |
| Martin McGuinness on 03:12 - Jan 20 by jeera |
" It differs from your strategy against "occupation" in so much as there were no murdered children and families involved........and cowards"
What on earth are you talking about? |
It's very simple. I suggest reading it again and the posts it corresponds too. |  | | |
| Martin McGuinness on 11:49 - Jan 20 with 2054 views | GeoffSentence |
| Martin McGuinness on 09:32 - Jan 20 by WeWereZombies |
It is a bit more complicated than that, a couple of snippets from Wikipedia:
However Dál Riata came to be, the time in which it arose was one of great instability in Ulster, following the Ulaid's loss of territory (including the ancient centre of Emain Macha) to the AirgÃalla and the Uà Néill. Whether the two parts of Dál Riata had long been united, or whether a conquest in the 4th century or early 5th century, either of Antrim from Argyll, or vice versa, in line with myth, is not known.
Serious defeats in Ireland and Scotland in the time of Domnall Brecc (d. 642) ended Dál Riata's "golden age", and the kingdom became a client of Northumbria, then subject to the Picts. |
Of course it's more complicated. I haven't got the time, nor is the ideal tool, for going into in great detail.
The important point is - nationality and who comes from where and has done what is very complicated. |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 11:54 - Jan 20 with 2026 views | WeWereZombies |
| Martin McGuinness on 10:51 - Jan 20 by Keno |
slightly off tangent I was talking to young german lad who was about 20 and asked him about how WW2 is taught is schools there and I thought it quite interesting that he said 'they teach us that it was Nazi's who caused it not Germans'
The irony was he is from Dresden and we had the conversation at an RAF benevolent fund event which asked to go to cos 'I like the airplanes from WW2 that will be there' |
But there is some truth in World War Two being caused by Nazis rather than Germans, Hitler's brinkmanship was unnecessary to keep the economic revival going (although necessary for the lebensraum project) and ultimately his, excuse the hackneyed word, downfall. And the first victims of the Nazis were Germans.
On the other hand it was Germans who stood idly by and let a minority government do what it wanted, Germans who knew about the death camps and pretended they didn't... |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 12:23 - Jan 20 with 1994 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Martin McGuinness on 10:13 - Jan 20 by factual_blue |
There are at least two Bloody Sundays in 20th century Irish history in which innocent people were killed by the British Army. I don't think being angry about those makes people 'bitter' or at the very least disappointed by the army's behaviour 'anti-British'. |
what did you say earlier? Nationalism is the last resort of the scoundrel?
So all the Irish nationalists protesting on those days were in the wrong, yes? |  | | |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:27 - Jan 20 with 1989 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
| Martin McGuinness on 02:57 - Jan 20 by jeera |
Which boat did the Belgrano torpedo?
I can't remember. |
You're right about that. I thought it was an escort to a destroyer that had fired on a British ship, which isn't correct. It was part of an attack formation though | | | |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:37 - Jan 20 with 1969 views | Waterfootblue |
| Martin McGuinness on 11:54 - Jan 20 by WeWereZombies |
But there is some truth in World War Two being caused by Nazis rather than Germans, Hitler's brinkmanship was unnecessary to keep the economic revival going (although necessary for the lebensraum project) and ultimately his, excuse the hackneyed word, downfall. And the first victims of the Nazis were Germans.
On the other hand it was Germans who stood idly by and let a minority government do what it wanted, Germans who knew about the death camps and pretended they didn't... |
The Allies knew of the existence of Auschwitz-Birkenau as early 1943, it could be said they stood idly by and pretended they didn't. Just shows how imperfect the human race is. |  | | |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:40 - Jan 20 with 1956 views | lowhouseblue |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:37 - Jan 20 by Waterfootblue |
The Allies knew of the existence of Auschwitz-Birkenau as early 1943, it could be said they stood idly by and pretended they didn't. Just shows how imperfect the human race is. |
what might the allies have done in 1943? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Martin McGuinness on 12:40 - Jan 20 with 1955 views | nbsiyag |
| Martin McGuinness on 09:39 - Jan 20 by manchego |
It was all Ireland for a hell of a lot longer than that you twit. |
I don't think there was ever a united Irish Country. Diarmait Mac Murchada, king of Leinster invited help from the Welsh Normans in his dispute with his neighbouring kingdoms. Henry !!, concerned the Welsh Normans were then getting too powerful, then stepped in to take control in 1171. From then on it has always been messy, exacerbated by the Spanish in the 16th Century encouraging the native population to spurn the reformation. The protestant Tudors, fearing a back door invasion started the plantations which set the model for future British Empire expansion. The UK Civil Wars obviously did nothing to help to pacify.
Sadly until recently, too many Irish people on both sides of the divide have had their heads stuffed up their own @rses to see common sense. It'll be interesting to see how Brexit pans out and whether this will result finally in a united Ireland. |  | | |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:59 - Jan 20 with 1928 views | Benters |
| Martin McGuinness on 07:58 - Jan 20 by GlasgowBlue |
I have him in ignore as I like him and don't want to get into an argument with him.
But recently it appears he has taken leave of all his senses. It may be because at his age he has realised he'll never see another labour government in his lifetime. |
He is on ignore but you like him? Im the other way round when it comes to the Ixworth1 |  |
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| Martin McGuinness on 13:02 - Jan 20 with 1912 views | sparks |
| Martin McGuinness on 10:33 - Jan 20 by Archer4721 |
What a typical TWTD thread full of nonsense from people who really haven't a clue what they're talking about.
At least the Irish lad on this thread has a first hand experience of what he's witnessed over the years which many of the people commenting on this thread haven't. |
He's 27. He was 8 or 9 when the good Friday agreement was signed. His experience must be pretty limited. His views certainly seem very one sided.
He's not acknowledged my point about the NI majority yet either. This occupation narrative has been very successful. Suspect many English folk have no idea that the majority in NI wished to be part of UK. .. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Martin McGuinness on 13:06 - Jan 20 with 1897 views | WeWereZombies |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:37 - Jan 20 by Waterfootblue |
The Allies knew of the existence of Auschwitz-Birkenau as early 1943, it could be said they stood idly by and pretended they didn't. Just shows how imperfect the human race is. |
As lowhouseblue has pointed out, it was a bit tricky for the Allies to just go in and close down the camps in 1943 - but turning the corner round about then certainly helped getting the camps closed in 1945. So it couldn't be said they stood idly by. | |
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| Martin McGuinness on 13:08 - Jan 20 with 1887 views | Waterfootblue |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:40 - Jan 20 by lowhouseblue |
what might the allies have done in 1943? |
Don't think it would have been too difficult to disrupt the supply chain, "railway line parts of which are well away from the civilian population". Just pointing a view that was told to me during my visit.
Europe has become a much better place since those days. The Poles have learned to forgive the Germans, don't think they will ever afford forgiveness to the Ruskies. | | | |
| Martin McGuinness on 13:10 - Jan 20 with 1871 views | Benters |
| Martin McGuinness on 12:37 - Jan 20 by Waterfootblue |
The Allies knew of the existence of Auschwitz-Birkenau as early 1943, it could be said they stood idly by and pretended they didn't. Just shows how imperfect the human race is. |
yh righto ! utter balls . | |
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| Martin McGuinness on 13:12 - Jan 20 with 1874 views | lowhouseblue |
| Martin McGuinness on 13:08 - Jan 20 by Waterfootblue |
Don't think it would have been too difficult to disrupt the supply chain, "railway line parts of which are well away from the civilian population". Just pointing a view that was told to me during my visit.
Europe has become a much better place since those days. The Poles have learned to forgive the Germans, don't think they will ever afford forgiveness to the Ruskies. |
i think there's an argument that showing their hand may have only have caused the extermination to speed up or to take different forms. i guess therefore there are ways of rationalising how the allies used the information about the camps once they had it, rather than it indicating culpability on their part. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Martin McGuinness on 13:14 - Jan 20 with 1869 views | IpswichIrish |
| Martin McGuinness on 13:02 - Jan 20 by sparks |
He's 27. He was 8 or 9 when the good Friday agreement was signed. His experience must be pretty limited. His views certainly seem very one sided.
He's not acknowledged my point about the NI majority yet either. This occupation narrative has been very successful. Suspect many English folk have no idea that the majority in NI wished to be part of UK. .. |
My parents were in Ireland at the time of the troubles, as was my grandad. I have addressed your point, Ireland voted overwhelmingly to be an Irish republic but 'Lord' Carson, backed by the British government of the day, bombed, shot, killed the Irish because he didn't like the result, gerrymandering it.
But saying to people just because they weren't born when an historic event happened, that their view is invalid is pathetic. |  | | |
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