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MP's get to vote then on 17:00 - Jan 24 by giant_stow
I'm not the one saying that he's let his people down!. He's *probably* not let the people who voted for him down, so what's the issue?
How can you say that though? You're guessing at best. In order for your numbers to work out would have had to be a close GE result which it wasn't, he won by miles then they voted leave.
I'm not that bothered, just thought it was an interesting point he was voting against his constituents. For the record, he was voted in to represent all his constituents, not just the ones that voted for him.
SB
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MP's get to vote then on 17:06 - Jan 24 with 1202 views
MP's get to vote then on 16:58 - Jan 24 by StokieBlue
I don't understand your last line.
He implicitly must be going against them given labour got a majority at the GE but leave won the referendum in his constituency.
It's impossible to be anything else unless you're saying no labour voters bothered voting in the referendum on his constituency.
SB
I thought MPs represent the people in the constituency who voted them in? They stand on a certain platform re the big issues and ideally stick to that, while back everyone on the lesser issues - that's what gives them a mandate no?
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
MP's get to vote then on 17:04 - Jan 24 by giant_stow
You silly sod! I'm arguing in a debate - I'm allowed to do that - its called freedom of speach! I didn't say my opinion was more important - you did. If anything isn't it arrogant to argue that we all have to fall into line?
You haven't answered my question.
You've completely missed my point. You agree with Smith and therefore him ignoring his constituency is ok with you. Total arrogance.
MP's get to vote then on 17:06 - Jan 24 by itfcjoe
Brilliant - and people are going on about Trump and his alternative facts
I'd also like to see where there's now a mandate for turning all our politics and economic decisions over to an anti-immigration agenda. Almost overnight.
But that's another can of xenophobic, scapegoating, politically dishonest worms.
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MP's get to vote then on 17:13 - Jan 24 with 1172 views
MP's get to vote then on 17:09 - Jan 24 by giant_stow
I thought MPs represent the people in the constituency who voted them in? They stand on a certain platform re the big issues and ideally stick to that, while back everyone on the lesser issues - that's what gives them a mandate no?
So you don't expect your MP to represent you if you didn't vote for them?
Who do you expect to represent you and issues in your community then? I would disagree actually, local MP tend to concentrate on smaller issues in their community outside the scope of big debate.
For instance. Say someone wanted to put a wind turbine in your garden or knock down your house for a railway. Would you expect your MP to take a stand for you even if it wasn't the person you voted for? Of course you would.
SB
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MP's get to vote then on 17:14 - Jan 24 with 1173 views
MP's get to vote then on 16:55 - Jan 24 by StokieBlue
Why is there this new trope whereby someone is seen to only represent some people in their voting region? It's always been a majority voting system.
By the logic being shown, anything an MP does is wrong unless 100% of the people in his region agree with it.
SB
It's a two-way street though, isn't it? Voters elect the MP they think will best represent their interests, MP enters Parliament and acts on information available to look after his constituents interests (with a consideration for the interests of the UK as a whole). Does his best to fulfil this duty despite what the whips tell him to do.
You hope that your MP will represent your best interests and you may find occasions when you think 'I didn't vote him in to do that!', and you may later on find that he did that because it was the best option available (or you may find he voted exactly as the majority in his constituency expected but he was fiddling his expenses all the time).
To give one of my daft examples, say a Tory MP was voted in by a constituency and a few weeks later every single voter signed a petition to gather up all the money in the borough and divide it equally amongst the voters, would you expect him to raise that in Parliament?
MP's get to vote then on 17:12 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont
I'd also like to see where there's now a mandate for turning all our politics and economic decisions over to an anti-immigration agenda. Almost overnight.
But that's another can of xenophobic, scapegoating, politically dishonest worms.
I'm sure the one thing we can agree on is that people who voted on anti immigration grounds are going to end up very disappointed regardless of whether we have freedom of movement or now.
MP's get to vote then on 17:13 - Jan 24 by StokieBlue
So you don't expect your MP to represent you if you didn't vote for them?
Who do you expect to represent you and issues in your community then? I would disagree actually, local MP tend to concentrate on smaller issues in their community outside the scope of big debate.
For instance. Say someone wanted to put a wind turbine in your garden or knock down your house for a railway. Would you expect your MP to take a stand for you even if it wasn't the person you voted for? Of course you would.
SB
I expect my MP to tell me what they think about the big issues (brexit) and then support anyone with the smaller issues such as Windfarms etc...
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
MP's get to vote then on 17:24 - Jan 24 by giant_stow
Re your first line, I didn't misunderstand, I disagreed.
My question was when did anyone explicitly vote for leaving the single market?
Lots of people on both sides said leaving the EU would be leaving the single market. All along the EU said you can't have access to the single market without freedom of movement. Remainers say most leave voters are little Englanders who voted out on immigration grounds which would make staying in the EU impossible.
Lots of people on both sides said leaving the EU would be leaving the single market. All along the EU said you can't have access to the single market without freedom of movement. Remainers say most leave voters are little Englanders who voted out on immigration grounds which would make staying in the EU impossible.
You can't have it all ways.
"Explicitly" — not they said this, or they said that — explicitly. Check the referendum question. Also, remember the debate about how there should have been 3 questions on the paper. ‘No that’s not fair’ said the leavers — ‘you’re splitting our vote’ — all conveniently forgotten now.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
MP's get to vote then on 17:31 - Jan 24 by giant_stow
"Explicitly" — not they said this, or they said that — explicitly. Check the referendum question. Also, remember the debate about how there should have been 3 questions on the paper. ‘No that’s not fair’ said the leavers — ‘you’re splitting our vote’ — all conveniently forgotten now.
Wasn't the promise to have an in/out referendum? Really couldn't have been more clear that one was entirely in and one was entirely out. You're desperately looking for reasons to justify ignoring the vote and enacting your plan b but it looks to have failed.
Don't give up though, there's a long way to go and your side might well find a way to just ignore the vote and pretend it never happened.
Watch it till the end too. It's only after 8 minutes they get off the journalistic liberty angle (Neil has a point there) and even address the underlying point that still remains.
There's a reason I've got GB on ignore and it's because he's our own Trump. Maybe you can come back and tell how he was putting everyone right on the discussions of the Norwegian and Swiss single market models?
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MP's get to vote then on 18:00 - Jan 24 with 1039 views
MP's get to vote then on 17:57 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont
Watch it till the end too. It's only after 8 minutes they get off the journalistic liberty angle (Neil has a point there) and even address the underlying point that still remains.
There's a reason I've got GB on ignore and it's because he's our own Trump. Maybe you can come back and tell how he was putting everyone right on the discussions of the Norwegian and Swiss single market models?
The guy is just squirming and looks shocked that someone has dared call him on it. I find your position on that video really odd. You're clearly looking to fit it in with your beliefs.
MP's get to vote then on 17:31 - Jan 24 by giant_stow
"Explicitly" — not they said this, or they said that — explicitly. Check the referendum question. Also, remember the debate about how there should have been 3 questions on the paper. ‘No that’s not fair’ said the leavers — ‘you’re splitting our vote’ — all conveniently forgotten now.
There was no debaste during the referendum about three questions on the Ballot paper. It was you who floated the idea last month and ,me who raised the point about splitting the vote. (Christ I frighten myself with my razor sharp memory at times)
Your idea, in hindsight, was to that there should have been 3 options: stay, hard leave, soft leave.
Which is heavily loaded in favour of remain. 2 leave options to split and only one remain option. If your idea was fair then it would add a fourth question of "stay and join the Euro and Schengen"
The guy is just squirming and looks shocked that someone has dared call him on it. I find your position on that video really odd. You're clearly looking to fit it in with your beliefs.
I think he's shocked that Neil comes at him re: editing as if to deny the underlying point rather than criticize how they did it. The underlying point remains and he's finally allowed to make it right at the end.
I agree that there are big journalistic integrity issues over how that point was lifted. Unfortunately, that's the world we're in unfortunately. Nuance is pretty much dead in communication.
[Post edited 24 Jan 2017 18:15]
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MP's get to vote then on 18:11 - Jan 24 with 1018 views
Wasn't the promise to have an in/out referendum? Really couldn't have been more clear that one was entirely in and one was entirely out. You're desperately looking for reasons to justify ignoring the vote and enacting your plan b but it looks to have failed.
Don't give up though, there's a long way to go and your side might well find a way to just ignore the vote and pretend it never happened.
That's just not true though.
It was always likely that we would leave but wasn't the fait accompli that you're now trying to claim. There was loads of debate both before and after the referendum about this, that's why May's speech last week was such big news.
I think you're right though, a deal that saw us retain free access to the single market and freedom of movement would be fine with me but wouldn't truly respect the result of the referendum.
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