| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin 16:46 - Feb 5 with 2665 views | Mullet |
Jesus, what's changed since the days of Stalin eh? |  |
| |  |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 16:51 - Feb 5 with 2228 views | BackToRussia |
Trump has a point though. We hear in great detail about Russia's extrajudicial murders, but very little about the US' - but they happen. The US is not opposed to taking a passenger plane out of the sky just as much as the Russians. These are superpowers who do whatever they can to maintain their hegemony. Don't be fooled by either side. |  |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 16:52 - Feb 5 with 2228 views | ElderGrizzly |
I've just spent the afternoon with an ex-KGB person in here. One on one 'tour'
There was a lovely KGB era photo of Putin in there and the guy who owns it said Putin is merely a puppet and Russia hopes for a "National Leader" not an "International Leader"
Really interesting museum if you have the chance to visit in Prague. He's a unique character for sure [Post edited 5 Feb 2017 16:54]
|  | | |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:14 - Feb 5 with 2112 views | Mullet |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 16:51 - Feb 5 by BackToRussia |
Trump has a point though. We hear in great detail about Russia's extrajudicial murders, but very little about the US' - but they happen. The US is not opposed to taking a passenger plane out of the sky just as much as the Russians. These are superpowers who do whatever they can to maintain their hegemony. Don't be fooled by either side. |
Which passenger plane has the US taken out of the sky?
I'm not sure "yeah but what about them?" really excuses Russia or more precisely Putin's hegemony and efforts to maintain it. The bloke is estimated to be "the richest man ever" according to a recent discussion I heard. Even if that was wild exaggeration, the fact he can and does operate like he does in the 21st century says a lot.
Trump is clearly comfortable with it, presumably so he can act as he wants and use the cover of protectionism as a justification for his own gain.
Regardless, this isn't really about a vicious narcissist and his racist agendas. However you read that list, it's pretty much indefensible bloodshed by any state, no matter how many others are up to it. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:16 - Feb 5 with 2108 views | Guthrum |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 16:52 - Feb 5 by ElderGrizzly |
I've just spent the afternoon with an ex-KGB person in here. One on one 'tour'
There was a lovely KGB era photo of Putin in there and the guy who owns it said Putin is merely a puppet and Russia hopes for a "National Leader" not an "International Leader"
Really interesting museum if you have the chance to visit in Prague. He's a unique character for sure [Post edited 5 Feb 2017 16:54]
|
I went to the KGB museum (ex headquarters) in Vilnius. That was just very grim. |  |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:18 - Feb 5 with 2067 views | Mullet |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:16 - Feb 5 by Guthrum |
I went to the KGB museum (ex headquarters) in Vilnius. That was just very grim. |
House of Terror in Budapest was heartbreaking. I'm not sure why I always go on these things, but Auschwitz and Mostar seemed like a duty almost as I was near enough and had the opportunity.
I suppose in a few centuries people might even view them like we view something like the Tower of London now? | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:25 - Feb 5 with 2016 views | BackToRussia |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:14 - Feb 5 by Mullet |
Which passenger plane has the US taken out of the sky?
I'm not sure "yeah but what about them?" really excuses Russia or more precisely Putin's hegemony and efforts to maintain it. The bloke is estimated to be "the richest man ever" according to a recent discussion I heard. Even if that was wild exaggeration, the fact he can and does operate like he does in the 21st century says a lot.
Trump is clearly comfortable with it, presumably so he can act as he wants and use the cover of protectionism as a justification for his own gain.
Regardless, this isn't really about a vicious narcissist and his racist agendas. However you read that list, it's pretty much indefensible bloodshed by any state, no matter how many others are up to it. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana_de_Aviaci%C3%B3n_Flight_455
The US tend to be more subtle about it, funding groups via the CIA to absolve themselves, but don't be kidded. It happens.
I'm not saying it does excuse it, just saying both need to be held accountable. We tend to look at things as a "West vs the bad guys" when we should be looking at things as state power and those oppressed by it.
We're also quick to say "Putin does X and Y", not the Russian state does this or that, whereas we're less quick to say Obama does this or that. Putin is different to a US president of course in how he uses his office for personal enrichment, but the mechanism are much the same.
And Trump is not entirely stupid, if a rapprochement can be made with Putin it'd probably be better than the situation now. Sanctions haven't worked, the war in Ukraine still rages, they did what they liked in Syria whether the US wanted it or not. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:30 - Feb 5 with 1984 views | Mullet |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:25 - Feb 5 by BackToRussia |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana_de_Aviaci%C3%B3n_Flight_455
The US tend to be more subtle about it, funding groups via the CIA to absolve themselves, but don't be kidded. It happens.
I'm not saying it does excuse it, just saying both need to be held accountable. We tend to look at things as a "West vs the bad guys" when we should be looking at things as state power and those oppressed by it.
We're also quick to say "Putin does X and Y", not the Russian state does this or that, whereas we're less quick to say Obama does this or that. Putin is different to a US president of course in how he uses his office for personal enrichment, but the mechanism are much the same.
And Trump is not entirely stupid, if a rapprochement can be made with Putin it'd probably be better than the situation now. Sanctions haven't worked, the war in Ukraine still rages, they did what they liked in Syria whether the US wanted it or not. |
I'm not blind to the US playing dirty, you can get a taste of that from watching Narcos after all. But I still don't think it's particularly relevant here. After all this is in classic TWTD territory of those demanding a list of ALL similar states/systems/examples etc.
The problem with Obama vs. Putin as you suggest is that while Obama has been Commander in Chief he's not the dictator Putin is. It's hard to see if he could stop anything or everything.
This list on the other hand can easily be seen as the results of Putin raging in his office towards his subordinates. More akin to a collection of Russia's "turbulent priests" I'd say. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:30 - Feb 5 with 1982 views | factual_blue |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:16 - Feb 5 by Guthrum |
I went to the KGB museum (ex headquarters) in Vilnius. That was just very grim. |
I've just finished reading Ben McIntyre's book about Philby, in which the fathers of both Peter Ustinov and Stewart Copeland feature heavily. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:37 - Feb 5 with 1948 views | Guthrum |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:30 - Feb 5 by factual_blue |
I've just finished reading Ben McIntyre's book about Philby, in which the fathers of both Peter Ustinov and Stewart Copeland feature heavily. |
Stasiland, by Anna Funder is worth a read, if you haven't already. What it's like to live in, even be part of, a secret police state. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:38 - Feb 5 with 1929 views | TIB |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 16:51 - Feb 5 by BackToRussia |
Trump has a point though. We hear in great detail about Russia's extrajudicial murders, but very little about the US' - but they happen. The US is not opposed to taking a passenger plane out of the sky just as much as the Russians. These are superpowers who do whatever they can to maintain their hegemony. Don't be fooled by either side. |
 |  |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:44 - Feb 5 with 1886 views | Guthrum |
In the days of Stalin, there would have been a big public show-trial of traitors to the Soviet Union, thousands executed or in prison camps, not the occasional killing of dissidents. Putin may be ex-KGB, but he isn't in the same category - nor does he have the same level of personal authority - as Uncle Joe (a nickname which Stalin himself hated). | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:48 - Feb 5 with 1857 views | factual_blue |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:37 - Feb 5 by Guthrum |
Stasiland, by Anna Funder is worth a read, if you haven't already. What it's like to live in, even be part of, a secret police state. |
After Philby's defection, and after he'd been given the Order of Lenin, SIS thought about awarding Philby a knighthood, just to make the soviets think he'd been a triple agent all along. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 19:24 - Feb 5 with 1628 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:18 - Feb 5 by Mullet |
House of Terror in Budapest was heartbreaking. I'm not sure why I always go on these things, but Auschwitz and Mostar seemed like a duty almost as I was near enough and had the opportunity.
I suppose in a few centuries people might even view them like we view something like the Tower of London now? |
Went to that last month too. Horrendous isn't it?
The Holocaust museum in DC takes that another step further too. | | | |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 19:46 - Feb 5 with 1558 views | Mullet |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 19:24 - Feb 5 by ElderGrizzly |
Went to that last month too. Horrendous isn't it?
The Holocaust museum in DC takes that another step further too. |
I didn't like the DC museum at all. Didn't help I sent my bag through the scanners with a deodorant can still in it. They went mad!
I guess there's a sense of wonder with History of this sort that compels us to go and see/study it. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 19:52 - Feb 5 with 1530 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
Stalin killed about 50 million of his own people, so quite a difference. |  | | |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:19 - Feb 5 with 1433 views | gerard1947 |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 17:30 - Feb 5 by factual_blue |
I've just finished reading Ben McIntyre's book about Philby, in which the fathers of both Peter Ustinov and Stewart Copeland feature heavily. |
Great read. I'm about to start his latest book which is about the SAS. I've had it while, it's the only one of his I haven't read.
McIntyre is a good writer. He normally gives a talk and signs copies when his new books come out, arranged by Toppings Ely. Toppings book launches are normally in the autumn and well worth a visit. They get really good people. |  | | |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:22 - Feb 5 with 1402 views | bluelagos |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 19:52 - Feb 5 by FrowsyArmLarry |
Stalin killed about 50 million of his own people, so quite a difference. |
I thought it was 20 million? Though that still makes him No 1 in the 'mass murder of your own people' league table.
I think Pol Pot was the highest proportion? Maybe Guthers or Factors can fill us in on Mass Murder top trumps. |  |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:24 - Feb 5 with 1379 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:22 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
I thought it was 20 million? Though that still makes him No 1 in the 'mass murder of your own people' league table.
I think Pol Pot was the highest proportion? Maybe Guthers or Factors can fill us in on Mass Murder top trumps. |
Studying some of the threads here, you'd think it was Evans or McCarthy | | | |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:24 - Feb 5 with 1378 views | Mullet |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:22 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
I thought it was 20 million? Though that still makes him No 1 in the 'mass murder of your own people' league table.
I think Pol Pot was the highest proportion? Maybe Guthers or Factors can fill us in on Mass Murder top trumps. |
Think you're right on Pol Pot but Mao had the most in sheer numbers.
That said proportionally some of the ancient cultures must have had more given the amount of civil wars and massacres etc. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:37 - Feb 5 with 1327 views | bluelagos |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:24 - Feb 5 by Mullet |
Think you're right on Pol Pot but Mao had the most in sheer numbers.
That said proportionally some of the ancient cultures must have had more given the amount of civil wars and massacres etc. |
Pol Pot managed around 25% of Canbodia's population.
Mao's 40 million (of a population of 1bn) would be less than 5%. Amateur. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:52 - Feb 5 with 1269 views | Guthrum |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:37 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
Pol Pot managed around 25% of Canbodia's population.
Mao's 40 million (of a population of 1bn) would be less than 5%. Amateur. |
Tho some writers assess the deaths due to Mao's policies and actions (including famine) as up to 100m | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 21:08 - Feb 5 with 1208 views | bluelagos |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:52 - Feb 5 by Guthrum |
Tho some writers assess the deaths due to Mao's policies and actions (including famine) as up to 100m |
I wonder if Queen Victoria could claim 2 cousins on the list? -(Leopold and Wilhelm) | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 22:04 - Feb 5 with 1113 views | factual_blue |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 20:19 - Feb 5 by gerard1947 |
Great read. I'm about to start his latest book which is about the SAS. I've had it while, it's the only one of his I haven't read.
McIntyre is a good writer. He normally gives a talk and signs copies when his new books come out, arranged by Toppings Ely. Toppings book launches are normally in the autumn and well worth a visit. They get really good people. |
I think I've got Operation Mincemeat in my growing Pile Of Books To Read.
Trouble is I keep borrowing electronic books from Suffolk Libraries. Just started Anthony Beevor's Ardennes 1944. | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 22:39 - Feb 5 with 1035 views | Guthrum |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 21:08 - Feb 5 by bluelagos |
I wonder if Queen Victoria could claim 2 cousins on the list? -(Leopold and Wilhelm) |
As genocidal sociopaths go, Leopold is a fair way down the list. He was more into torture and exploitation. Dead people are unproductive and he was maily concerned with squeezing every penny out of the Congo he could.
Wilhelm possibly, if you would lay the largest part of the blame for World War One at his door (which I would to some extent - or at least ratcheting up the tension to the point it kicked off).
Bit unfair to emphasise Queen Victoria. After all, a large proportion of the crowned heads of Europe were related to her at the beginning of the 20th century (being an era of autocratic rule, where the monarch often was the government). | |
| |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 23:01 - Feb 5 with 991 views | bluelagos |
| Someone on twitter seems to want to get killed by Putin on 22:39 - Feb 5 by Guthrum |
As genocidal sociopaths go, Leopold is a fair way down the list. He was more into torture and exploitation. Dead people are unproductive and he was maily concerned with squeezing every penny out of the Congo he could.
Wilhelm possibly, if you would lay the largest part of the blame for World War One at his door (which I would to some extent - or at least ratcheting up the tension to the point it kicked off).
Bit unfair to emphasise Queen Victoria. After all, a large proportion of the crowned heads of Europe were related to her at the beginning of the 20th century (being an era of autocratic rule, where the monarch often was the government). |
Have you read Leopold's Ghost? Nasty piece of work he was.
My emphasis on Victoria was just my mischevious nature. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
