| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... 13:44 - May 24 with 11530 views | RoyKeanesDog |
IRA members committing acts of terrorism in name of their religion, and ISIS members committing acts of terrorism in the name of their religion?
Thankfully I am too young to remember the IRA attacks, but I have grown up with ISIS and other Muslim extremists, and I am able to appreciate that they do not represent the religion.
It may help me that I have grown up with Muslims, and lived in cosmopolitan cities so I can see how the Muslim community live their life in peace, and accommodate to our community. |  |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:15 - May 24 with 1961 views | homer_123 |
Power and control... |  |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:16 - May 24 with 1959 views | homer_123 |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 14:51 - May 24 by ThePitBoss |
Mince around Tower hamlets for a bit and see how the community accommodates you there. |
What if we steak around Tower Hamlets, or Quorn it instead? | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:16 - May 24 with 1959 views | monytowbray |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:15 - May 24 by unbelievablue |
On both counts. |
You could always try and present a logical argument to prove me wrong you know. |  |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:17 - May 24 with 1956 views | unbelievablue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:13 - May 24 by monytowbray |
I never said Catholics were innocent, I just answered the question of the difference between ISIS and the IRA. I still stand by that; the IRA had a very different goal and motivation than ISIS. |
What do you believe the motivation and goals of IS to be? |  |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:23 - May 24 with 1919 views | unbelievablue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:16 - May 24 by monytowbray |
You could always try and present a logical argument to prove me wrong you know. |
I responded to LL. Have responded to you in a different post. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:26 - May 24 with 1901 views | unbelievablue |
10/10, well done sir. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:27 - May 24 with 1899 views | Guthrum |
Nothing to do with religion, but there was a marked difference in approach.
For most of their history, the IRA mainly targeted military/security/police targets (e.g. Warrenpoint, attacks on fortified police stations), or those they believed to be agents and informers for the other side. They frequently gave telephone warnings before a bomb was set off. Indiscriminate attacks on civilian targets (e.g. Enniskillen, which they even at the time claimed was a mistake) were rare.
Islamic State are the opposite, deliberately setting out to maximise civilian casualties (e.g. car bombs in marketplaces, Bataclan, Manchester). |  |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:28 - May 24 with 1884 views | manchego |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:09 - May 24 by Lord_Lucan |
I told you before. You can read as much as you like and you can listen to people as much as you like but you will mainly get loaded answers depending on what side of the divide you are on. To really understand it you would have needed to be living in NI at the time and even then you would have opposite opinions depending on your religion. I notice we have a loaded answer on a previous post on this thread. .
Both sides were ridiculous at times, really ridiculous, and both sides turned to protection and drugs, mini mafia organisations. Any original ideals were long gone.
The answer - there never really was one. Were Catholics treated as second class citizens? Yes in some areas, that is why The British Army were sent in, to restore calm and protect The Catholics. It turned to sh1t as both sides had an agenda.
They were all as bad as each other, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, even your ex girlfriend. |
If that was your attempt at education it was a very poor one. |  | | |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:38 - May 24 with 1859 views | manchego |
The IRA were not involved in an ideological / theological struggle.
They were Catholics but it was a purely political conflict. Same for Unionists.
ISIS is a theological struggle / war. | | | |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:40 - May 24 with 1847 views | unbelievablue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:38 - May 24 by manchego |
The IRA were not involved in an ideological / theological struggle.
They were Catholics but it was a purely political conflict. Same for Unionists.
ISIS is a theological struggle / war. |
It is not as simple as to say that ISIS's 'fight' is theological and not political. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:52 - May 24 with 1825 views | ThePitBoss |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:08 - May 24 by Coastalblue |
I actually live in Tower Hamlets and I don't have the faintest idea what you are on about?
Got another agenda to push?
Edit: Sorry Callis quoted wrong post. [Post edited 24 May 2017 15:09]
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http://www.pinknews.co.uk/topic/tower-hamlets/ |  | | |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:57 - May 24 with 1799 views | manchego |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:40 - May 24 by unbelievablue |
It is not as simple as to say that ISIS's 'fight' is theological and not political. |
Literally every time they give the 'menu' of excuses when they claim responsibility for this stuff,
every point is Quranic:
infidels, idolaters, apostates, crusaders, cartoonists, Holy Land, etc etc
Not once do they make purely political points. | | | |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:02 - May 24 with 1780 views | Guthrum |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:57 - May 24 by manchego |
Literally every time they give the 'menu' of excuses when they claim responsibility for this stuff,
every point is Quranic:
infidels, idolaters, apostates, crusaders, cartoonists, Holy Land, etc etc
Not once do they make purely political points. |
Be a little wary of political points dressed up in theological language.
For example, the "kufar", or unbelievers/apostates, to which they are referring are, in effect, just the way they designate their political, as well as sectarian opponents. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:03 - May 24 with 1779 views | Sarge |
I would liken ISIS more to the Nazi's than to the IRA.
What concerns me is that Nazism was defeated militarily and ideologically, I can't see that happening against ISIS. |  | | |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:04 - May 24 with 1773 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 14:54 - May 24 by monytowbray |
Go on then, educate me. |
The Provisional IRA were formed as a breakaway group from the real IRA.
The catholic minority community were indeed treated like second class citizens and were discriminated against in all walks of life by the unionist majority. You could draw comparisons with how blacks were treated in America in the early 1960's but not to the same extreme.
The British troops were originally brought into protect the catholic minority.
Getting back to the comparison with the treatment of Blacks in America, some people like John Hume and the SDLP took the Martin Luther King route of non violence to achieve their objective of a united Ireland. The Provisional IRA took the route of blowing up innocent kids in British cities. |  |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:04 - May 24 with 1771 views | monytowbray |
You do realise homophobia and physical/right assaults happen on the LBGT all around the country, yes? It's not exclusive to anywhere.
This also swerves the original post you made and the questions you were asked in response. You never specifically stated you were talking about gay people's safety in Tower Hamlets, which would make most presume you mean anyone whom isn't Muslim and/or is predominantly white British.
So, I ask again, have you actually been to Tower Hamlets recently? Or ever for that matter? | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:05 - May 24 with 1761 views | monytowbray |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:04 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
The Provisional IRA were formed as a breakaway group from the real IRA.
The catholic minority community were indeed treated like second class citizens and were discriminated against in all walks of life by the unionist majority. You could draw comparisons with how blacks were treated in America in the early 1960's but not to the same extreme.
The British troops were originally brought into protect the catholic minority.
Getting back to the comparison with the treatment of Blacks in America, some people like John Hume and the SDLP took the Martin Luther King route of non violence to achieve their objective of a united Ireland. The Provisional IRA took the route of blowing up innocent kids in British cities. |
This still doesn't change or challenge the original point I made though. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:09 - May 24 with 1747 views | unbelievablue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:03 - May 24 by Sarge |
I would liken ISIS more to the Nazi's than to the IRA.
What concerns me is that Nazism was defeated militarily and ideologically, I can't see that happening against ISIS. |
Any likening, though spawning potentially interesting debate, is ultimately facile. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:09 - May 24 with 1748 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 15:38 - May 24 by manchego |
The IRA were not involved in an ideological / theological struggle.
They were Catholics but it was a purely political conflict. Same for Unionists.
ISIS is a theological struggle / war. |
Thanks for your kind reply to my post, which part don't you disagree with exactly?
As for this post of yours, that is way to simplistic I'm afraid and you have gone down the route many do of explaining something that you really don't know the answer to. The IRA and Unionists were not just involved in a political struggle, much of it was plain bigotry and in latter years the political aspect was clouded by money and gangster culture. |  |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:10 - May 24 with 1744 views | Guthrum |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:03 - May 24 by Sarge |
I would liken ISIS more to the Nazi's than to the IRA.
What concerns me is that Nazism was defeated militarily and ideologically, I can't see that happening against ISIS. |
They're more a cult than Nazism was. Their obsession with death and "martyrdom" extends to using suicide bombers when it isn't even necessary (relatively open, soft, civilian targets).
And defeat in the field (which is liable to happen fairly soon) will do a lot to take the wind out of Islamic State's sails. They base their claim of preeminance in the jihadi world on their earthly "caliphate". Losing that will take much prestige with it - along with eradicating many sources of the propaganda which inspires attackers in the West (and the people pushing it). | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:12 - May 24 with 1736 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:05 - May 24 by monytowbray |
This still doesn't change or challenge the original point I made though. |
And the treatment of the catholic minority and a wish to see a united Ireland did not justify blowing up little kids in shopping centres or normal everyday folk in pubs than the reasons IS and Islamist terrorists give for doing the same.
You'll agree with me on that point won't you? | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:14 - May 24 with 1728 views | monytowbray |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:12 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
And the treatment of the catholic minority and a wish to see a united Ireland did not justify blowing up little kids in shopping centres or normal everyday folk in pubs than the reasons IS and Islamist terrorists give for doing the same.
You'll agree with me on that point won't you? |
No, it didn't, but still doesn't change the fact the motivation behind it was very different from ISIS. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:14 - May 24 with 1726 views | unbelievablue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:12 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
And the treatment of the catholic minority and a wish to see a united Ireland did not justify blowing up little kids in shopping centres or normal everyday folk in pubs than the reasons IS and Islamist terrorists give for doing the same.
You'll agree with me on that point won't you? |
If he doesn't see where this is going, all is lost for him. | |
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| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:17 - May 24 with 1719 views | unbelievablue |
| Does anybody genuinely see any real difference between... on 16:10 - May 24 by Guthrum |
They're more a cult than Nazism was. Their obsession with death and "martyrdom" extends to using suicide bombers when it isn't even necessary (relatively open, soft, civilian targets).
And defeat in the field (which is liable to happen fairly soon) will do a lot to take the wind out of Islamic State's sails. They base their claim of preeminance in the jihadi world on their earthly "caliphate". Losing that will take much prestige with it - along with eradicating many sources of the propaganda which inspires attackers in the West (and the people pushing it). |
Spot on.
The real power behind their 'pull', so to speak, is their caliphate, something Al Qaeda never offered (and did not intend to, for numerous theological, political and practical reasons). Get rid of that, and we're half way there.
Of course, the aftermath will be bloody, complex and potentially fertile breeding ground for future Islamist groups. | |
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