| Student loans 20:38 - Jul 24 with 13460 views | blueislander |
First of all I have to declare that I was paid to go to University , so I really don't know that much about student loans. Did anyone think that Labour promised to cancel all the outstanding debts? If so, did that persuade anyone to vote Labour? |  | | |  |
| Student loans on 21:23 - Jul 24 with 3272 views | StokieBlue |
| Student loans on 21:20 - Jul 24 by m14_blue |
I can only answer the OP for myself, I suppose others may disagree.
However, even as someone with a vested interest in the subject, I never for a second thought that Labour or anyone else would clear mrs m14's loan.
It wasn't a commitment, wasn't in their manifesto and wasn't painted on the side of a bus. Agree that the Corbyn quote is a bit disingenuous though. |
Fair enough.
On re-reading his quote you could also interpret it in a sinister Goodfellas type way :).
SB |  |
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| Student loans on 21:24 - Jul 24 with 3266 views | feelingblue |
| Student loans on 21:23 - Jul 24 by StokieBlue |
Fair enough.
On re-reading his quote you could also interpret it in a sinister Goodfellas type way :).
SB |
Or you could just say that Corbyn is another deliberately misleading/lying politician |  | | |
| Student loans on 21:25 - Jul 24 with 3263 views | blueislander |
| Student loans on 21:20 - Jul 24 by ElderGrizzly |
Cowardice, or 'trading' that for the 10k tax free income tax limit that was deemed to help more people on lower incomes.
Especially when most will never repay the student loans in full.
On your first point, i agree on some fees. As do students who were polled as it provides Universities with better funding. Not many wanted free education when they realised what the impact would be on the quality of courses.
Leave it to pure govt funding and courses will be cut and places too. |
Is there not a case for reducing the number of university places available, and replacing them with more vocational training, whereby young people work part time, and their vocational training is paid , to a large degree by employers? | | | |
| Student loans on 21:27 - Jul 24 with 3262 views | StokieBlue |
| Student loans on 21:21 - Jul 24 by Sarge |
We have one at Imperial. It has 39 members. From a student population of 17000... |
The photo of them is a rather large worry!
Interestingly (or not) the Labour one only has 40 members. I can only assume there is more than one Labour society as I find that an incredibly small number - I expected >1000 at least.
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| Student loans on 21:31 - Jul 24 with 3242 views | LankHenners |
| Student loans on 21:16 - Jul 24 by StokieBlue |
Why were they a simple and clear vote?
Tories utter rubbish I agree but Labour made up all their costings promises. The choice was a totally rubbish PM or impossible promises.
Very little going against them? They internally can't agree a brexit position and Corbyn wants out of the single market - quite a lot just there I would think.
SB |
Put simply, young people aren't big fans of being told what they should or shouldn't do, particularly by people who they feel they don't have any connection with.
On one hand, you have this man who draws large crowds, makes himself appear very down-to-earth, seems to talk on a human level which comes across as very refreshing and makes it look like he genuinely cares about the opinions of younger people. On the other, a campaign led by a woman who comes across as pretty much the opposite, and a campaign message that is essentially 'don't vote for that other guy'. In relation to the first paragraph, young people aren't going to like being told that.
There'd have been a lot of previously politically disengaged young people who quite probably wouldn't have heard of the name Jeremy Corbyn before the election (even fairly recently, thus missing the incompetent-looking man who sits on the floor of empty trains and tries to use a glass door to hide from journalists). Rightly or wrongly, a lot of people would have just looked 'on the face of things', and on that perspective, from the view point of young people, the Tories managed that part horrifically. A very strong social media presence (and not just in an echo-chamber-esque 'all my friends on Facebook/Twitter support Labour') helped a great deal as well.
Edit - in reference to the OP, I'd imagine quite a lot of level-headed people thought that wiping student debt would be an impossible task and thus chose to vote on the things discussed above, boiling it down to the basics, they went for the man who looked like he gave a sh!t. A lot of the hardcore 'Corbynites' would've believed every word, but the Tories will do well to learn from this and come back with something strong, rather than lazily assume all young people are thickos who fell for bribes etc. [Post edited 24 Jul 2017 21:34]
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| Student loans on 21:31 - Jul 24 with 3240 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Student loans on 21:25 - Jul 24 by blueislander |
Is there not a case for reducing the number of university places available, and replacing them with more vocational training, whereby young people work part time, and their vocational training is paid , to a large degree by employers? |
Absolutely. I'd cut places by a minimum of 20% and let some Universities fail. Too many pointless courses that will not help job prospects.
I'm biased, but these reports from PA are a really good insight into HE and views of Vice Chancellors
http://www.paconsulting.com/insights/higher-education-report-2016/ |  | | |
| Student loans on 21:32 - Jul 24 with 3239 views | Sarge |
| Student loans on 21:27 - Jul 24 by StokieBlue |
The photo of them is a rather large worry!
Interestingly (or not) the Labour one only has 40 members. I can only assume there is more than one Labour society as I find that an incredibly small number - I expected >1000 at least.
SB |
Indeed, thought there would be more but I never really see any campaigning or recruiting from any society. I'm automatically in the Aeronautics society which is comparatively large at 634 but even so the societies don't seem a big part of university life.
Although I am a postgrad so haven't got the time for it anyway! | | | |
| Student loans on 21:34 - Jul 24 with 3222 views | StokieBlue |
| Student loans on 21:32 - Jul 24 by Sarge |
Indeed, thought there would be more but I never really see any campaigning or recruiting from any society. I'm automatically in the Aeronautics society which is comparatively large at 634 but even so the societies don't seem a big part of university life.
Although I am a postgrad so haven't got the time for it anyway! |
Aeronautics society sounds much more fun than either Tory or Labour society to be fair!
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| Student loans on 22:10 - Jul 24 with 3179 views | peterleeblue |
I have very strong opinions on this having fathered a son in 1994 and a daughter in 1996. I privately educated them at secondary level and as a result both made university. My wife and I made sacrifices to send them private (largely because of the rebuilding of their potential comp at the time they were due to go there). At the time we had no idea of the Conservative / Lib Dem Cluster F**k of trebling student fees to come.
Make no bones about this trebling of fees is a master stroke of financial engineering of the middleman by so called think tanks, political civil servants or call it what you will. It will be inheritances of parents / grandparents that will repay these debts over the coming 15-20 years. I am a conscientious parent and I don't want my children saddled with debt so I have repaid my kids from my own income / inheritance I received from my dear recently departed Nana. I have told my kids they have had their inheritance early and its up to them now. They are well educated, driven and will do well.
Of course some will try and make it through to age 50 and see if their debt is written off (but seriously is there any point in going to university and earning less than £21k (the entry point for repayments).
From Suffolk originally I had always voted Tory. The student fee policy has cost me and my children £54,000. I will never vote Tory again. Show me a taxation / policy change that has hurt any one financially as much as that. I am not rich. My wife is a teacher and I am an area manager for a pub company. We both work very hard and are being squelched by the system and even our baby booming parents inheritances are being targeted. Well I imagine I just have enough pension provision to be OK but I really worry for the future generations. When its gone it gone. What then!!?? |  | | |
| Student loans on 22:41 - Jul 24 with 3142 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Student loans on 22:10 - Jul 24 by peterleeblue |
I have very strong opinions on this having fathered a son in 1994 and a daughter in 1996. I privately educated them at secondary level and as a result both made university. My wife and I made sacrifices to send them private (largely because of the rebuilding of their potential comp at the time they were due to go there). At the time we had no idea of the Conservative / Lib Dem Cluster F**k of trebling student fees to come.
Make no bones about this trebling of fees is a master stroke of financial engineering of the middleman by so called think tanks, political civil servants or call it what you will. It will be inheritances of parents / grandparents that will repay these debts over the coming 15-20 years. I am a conscientious parent and I don't want my children saddled with debt so I have repaid my kids from my own income / inheritance I received from my dear recently departed Nana. I have told my kids they have had their inheritance early and its up to them now. They are well educated, driven and will do well.
Of course some will try and make it through to age 50 and see if their debt is written off (but seriously is there any point in going to university and earning less than £21k (the entry point for repayments).
From Suffolk originally I had always voted Tory. The student fee policy has cost me and my children £54,000. I will never vote Tory again. Show me a taxation / policy change that has hurt any one financially as much as that. I am not rich. My wife is a teacher and I am an area manager for a pub company. We both work very hard and are being squelched by the system and even our baby booming parents inheritances are being targeted. Well I imagine I just have enough pension provision to be OK but I really worry for the future generations. When its gone it gone. What then!!?? |
It's just a matter of time before all potential inheritance (mostly in the form of property)is gobbled up by finance or private care institutions (a combination of both) and we will get the pleasure of moving to a new rent based model for accommodation (probably also a cashless economy). This way the ludicrous nominal value of property can be maintained to maintain the illusion of liquid banks (a prolonged crash in properties' inflated value would sink them and the economy) and we can all become dutiful DebtSlaves in the rentier economy.
Well that's how I see it panning out anyway! |  |
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| Student loans on 22:49 - Jul 24 with 3129 views | brazil1982 |
I work at a University and a number of students I spoke with were under that impression. | | | |
| Student loans on 22:57 - Jul 24 with 3114 views | colchesterchris |
| Student loans on 22:10 - Jul 24 by peterleeblue |
I have very strong opinions on this having fathered a son in 1994 and a daughter in 1996. I privately educated them at secondary level and as a result both made university. My wife and I made sacrifices to send them private (largely because of the rebuilding of their potential comp at the time they were due to go there). At the time we had no idea of the Conservative / Lib Dem Cluster F**k of trebling student fees to come.
Make no bones about this trebling of fees is a master stroke of financial engineering of the middleman by so called think tanks, political civil servants or call it what you will. It will be inheritances of parents / grandparents that will repay these debts over the coming 15-20 years. I am a conscientious parent and I don't want my children saddled with debt so I have repaid my kids from my own income / inheritance I received from my dear recently departed Nana. I have told my kids they have had their inheritance early and its up to them now. They are well educated, driven and will do well.
Of course some will try and make it through to age 50 and see if their debt is written off (but seriously is there any point in going to university and earning less than £21k (the entry point for repayments).
From Suffolk originally I had always voted Tory. The student fee policy has cost me and my children £54,000. I will never vote Tory again. Show me a taxation / policy change that has hurt any one financially as much as that. I am not rich. My wife is a teacher and I am an area manager for a pub company. We both work very hard and are being squelched by the system and even our baby booming parents inheritances are being targeted. Well I imagine I just have enough pension provision to be OK but I really worry for the future generations. When its gone it gone. What then!!?? |
I'm no fan of the system, but if you paid off £54,000 of their debts then you have potentially wasted your money and their inheritance.
It's basically a tax on their future income, rather than a debt. If your daughter is to have kids and not work for a period of time, chances are she wouldn't pay it back so it's pointless paying it off in advance. [Post edited 24 Jul 2017 22:59]
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| Student loans on 22:58 - Jul 24 with 3110 views | lowhouseblue |
corbyn said "I don't see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it."
when his supporters on social media then repeated that as a wiping out of accumulated debt -and argued about how little it would cost (as people argued on here) the labour leadership never clarified, never corrected, never said we don't mean that, we can't afford it. at the least corbyn created the impression that he would 'deal with' accumulated debt and then let that impression run because it was a convenient way of appealing to young voters who relied on social media for their 'facts'. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Student loans on 04:09 - Jul 25 with 3058 views | FrowsyArmLarry |
They most definitely DID promise to wipe out all existing student debt many many times.
"A new way, hope, equality, hope, blah blah"..... wiping out debt is what they were on about right? or, let me see, was corbyn talking bollox by any chance? |  | | |
| Student loans on 04:23 - Jul 25 with 3051 views | Benters |
| Student loans on 04:09 - Jul 25 by FrowsyArmLarry |
They most definitely DID promise to wipe out all existing student debt many many times.
"A new way, hope, equality, hope, blah blah"..... wiping out debt is what they were on about right? or, let me see, was corbyn talking bollox by any chance? |
Yes he was talking bolox. |  |
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| Student loans on 04:36 - Jul 25 with 3050 views | Kievthegreat |
Not Corbyn directly but...
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| Student loans on 05:51 - Jul 25 with 3038 views | peterleeblue |
| Student loans on 22:57 - Jul 24 by colchesterchris |
I'm no fan of the system, but if you paid off £54,000 of their debts then you have potentially wasted your money and their inheritance.
It's basically a tax on their future income, rather than a debt. If your daughter is to have kids and not work for a period of time, chances are she wouldn't pay it back so it's pointless paying it off in advance. [Post edited 24 Jul 2017 22:59]
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You make a valid point and one I wrestled long and hard over. However with the kids now up, away and doing their own thing I am starting to plan more holidays and think about when I might like to semi retire etc. Somehow it didn't sit comfortably with me starting to squirrel harder for myself knowing that they had debts racking up by c£1000 in interest.
I understand it's some sort of student tax that essentially makes them higher rate tax payers on lower income. I know from being young myself that when starting families and buying houses you need every penny you can get.
I am not saying I'm right but it's how it's sits with my moral compass. | | | |
| Student loans on 06:17 - Jul 25 with 3035 views | Vic |
Yes, I did, and so did my 3 kids, two at uni and one just left.
Whether they said it or not that is what we heard. But no, we were not persuaded by it as it was totally unrealistic.
'I will deal with it'. What did Corbyn mean by that if it wasn't that he'd get rid of it? [Post edited 25 Jul 2017 6:36]
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| Student loans on 06:25 - Jul 25 with 3029 views | Vic |
| Student loans on 22:58 - Jul 24 by lowhouseblue |
corbyn said "I don't see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it."
when his supporters on social media then repeated that as a wiping out of accumulated debt -and argued about how little it would cost (as people argued on here) the labour leadership never clarified, never corrected, never said we don't mean that, we can't afford it. at the least corbyn created the impression that he would 'deal with' accumulated debt and then let that impression run because it was a convenient way of appealing to young voters who relied on social media for their 'facts'. |
Exactly! | |
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| Student loans on 08:19 - Jul 25 with 2983 views | StokieBlue |
| Student loans on 22:58 - Jul 24 by lowhouseblue |
corbyn said "I don't see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it."
when his supporters on social media then repeated that as a wiping out of accumulated debt -and argued about how little it would cost (as people argued on here) the labour leadership never clarified, never corrected, never said we don't mean that, we can't afford it. at the least corbyn created the impression that he would 'deal with' accumulated debt and then let that impression run because it was a convenient way of appealing to young voters who relied on social media for their 'facts'. |
Careful now, the Labour hordes aren't going to like that post. In fact, they are suspiciously absent from this thread.
SB | |
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| Student loans on 09:05 - Jul 25 with 2958 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Student loans on 08:19 - Jul 25 by StokieBlue |
Careful now, the Labour hordes aren't going to like that post. In fact, they are suspiciously absent from this thread.
SB |
But he is Labour! | |
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| Student loans on 09:11 - Jul 25 with 2955 views | StokieBlue |
My bad, should have read momentum/Corbyn hordes.
You are correct.
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| Student loans on 09:24 - Jul 25 with 2945 views | mutters |
| Student loans on 20:45 - Jul 24 by Sarge |
As someone drowning in debt thanks to the blue devils currently in charge, no this didn't persuade me as I needed no further persuading. Voting is a very simple choice for students. I didn't expect they would be able to pull it off anyway, thanks to the Tories the size of the overall debt is gargantuan. |
Wasn't it Labour that introduced tuition fees in the first place? |  |
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| Student loans on 09:24 - Jul 25 with 2944 views | usm |
No they probably didnt but they more than hinted at it, and the good old media made it seem like they had.
The Tories should have aid they'd consider abolishing taxation - that would have won them a landslide. |  |
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| Student loans on 09:32 - Jul 25 with 2934 views | itfcjoe |
It's not like they put it on the side of a bus |  |
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