| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks 07:54 - Oct 21 with 3871 views | fab_lover |
One day, people should go to jail for this; but they won't.
Does anyone want to stick their head above the parapet and defend this ?
Does anyone think that Labour would have handled the Covid crisis any worse ?
Does anyone still feel inclined to vote Tory in the next election ?
|  | | |  |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 17:59 - Oct 21 with 609 views | Herbivore |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 17:46 - Oct 21 by Geomorph |
to put it bluntly.. we are f@cked |
That's the tl;dr version, yes. |  |
| |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 19:30 - Oct 21 with 568 views | Guthrum |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 16:14 - Oct 21 by WeWereZombies |
You've fallen into the trap of seeing Marxist-Leninist historical determinism as the only interpretation of Marx there, that was the standard Cold War view driven by the polarised political landscape of fifty or so years ago. Nowadays it has been said that, for example, Thomas Piketty has turned Marx on his head; nevertheless he still uses historical determinism and a debt to Marx's view of alienation as a result of inequality as a key piece of analysis in his works:
https://journals.openedition.org/oeconomia/10588 |
However, it's an interpretation which is subscribed to by quite a few on the left, plus fellow-travellers in the progressive sphere. I've had it expressed to me verbatim, people are still in that thought-pattern.
The problem I have with the use of historical "eras" to define socio-economic progress is that it assumes structures and methods were somewhat uniform during certain time periods. That's not strictly the case. An awful lot of "capitalism" was going on during the supposedly feudal Middle Ages, fuelling wealth accumulation and social climbing (in four generations, an obscure Humberside merchant family rose to be Dukes of Suffolk). Virtually all prominent figures were as loaded with debt (and deperately trying to service it) as any modern big business. |  |
| |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 19:48 - Oct 21 with 549 views | Durovigutum |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 08:35 - Oct 21 by Herbivore |
The electorate need to give their head a wobble. |
And lo, the reason Labour lose elections for fun comes around to bite Labour again.
The electorate is wrong, if only the idiots realise this....
Because telling people they are wrong works really well.
Watch the down votes for evidence of trying to persuade me otherwise. |  | | |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 20:00 - Oct 21 with 529 views | jas0999 |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 08:09 - Oct 21 by wkj |
Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have another hung parliament in 2024. |
Agree completely. No way Labour win a majority. But equally, Tories have no chance either. Those who voted because of Brexit plans and dislike of Corbyn will return to Labour next time. |  | | |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 20:16 - Oct 21 with 507 views | Darth_Koont |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 16:02 - Oct 21 by Guthrum |
You can't run the country indefinitely on printing money. The annual budget for the UK is £0.85 trillion. Every year.
Homeowners are only doing well on paper, due to ballooning house prices. They can't liquidise those assets, unless they go and live in a caravan.
In answer to your final question - yes. |
We seem to both agree it is a narrative.
And it seems we can do a lot of things if it fits the narrative and the interests of those already well served by the status quo. There is clearly no bottom line in that scenario.
But I don’t see how playing along with that helps anyone. It’s still money going to the wrong people. |  |
| |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 20:33 - Oct 21 with 495 views | Darth_Koont |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 16:29 - Oct 21 by jaykay |
so you fed up of stalking darth after your post what got reported for abuse , thought you better find a new victim to follow about |
Don’t do it, jay.
One minute you’re having a chat and the next you’re signed up to getting a year’s supply of misrepresentations, exaggerations and faux outrage.
Quit while you’re ahead. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 20:35]
| |
| |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 20:42 - Oct 21 with 485 views | Herbivore |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 19:48 - Oct 21 by Durovigutum |
And lo, the reason Labour lose elections for fun comes around to bite Labour again.
The electorate is wrong, if only the idiots realise this....
Because telling people they are wrong works really well.
Watch the down votes for evidence of trying to persuade me otherwise. |
I'm not the Labour Party, mate. As far as I'm aware Labour have never used "Give your head a wobble" as their campaign slogan. Give your head a wobble. [Post edited 21 Oct 2021 20:45]
| |
| |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 14:46 - Oct 31 with 346 views | WeWereZombies |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 09:49 - Oct 21 by Guthrum |
That's a fruitless attitude - "if only the electorate would wake up, they'd naturally vote for us". It's something I've encountered from radical activists many times*. Never going to happen - plus people don't like being talked down to.
In reality, you've got to go and meet them, carry them with you to the desired outcome. That's how Blair got elected, by reaching out to people who would normally have voted other ways, speaking their language, offering things they want.
* Descends from the old communist historical determinism - "history is on our side, we'll inevitably win in the end". Pure 19th century pseudo-Darwinian bollox. |
Sorry Guthers, is has taken me an age to get back to you on this one and then our posts seemed to go off at a tangent (which was probably my fault for looking out modern historians who still have a deterministic view.) I wanted to make a more 'what goes around, comes around' point, and to distinguish between what I call Marxian thought (i.e. his intentions for improvement) and Marxism (the practice that politicians have of taking cherry picked selections from his work and clamping them onto their own agendas - usually with unhappy results.
So, after getting sidetracked by life for ten days, I got around to reminding myself and verifying that Marx predated both Weber and Durkheim (but not Comte) as an indicator for the value of his work from a sociological perspective at least, it was the your marrying of historical determinism to 'pseudo-Darwinian bollox' that I objected to specifically. If an oppressed populace are told that history is on their side then they can be uplifted to fight on where others may give up and achieve some form of self-fulfilling prophecy. In a way this was also a tactic of Martin Luther KIng and the Southern Poverty Law Center too.
However, having a brief squint at sociology with the intention of debunking the pseudo-Darwinian charge did get me thinking about Herbert Spencer. I thought I had a more likely candidate for the smear but a read of the Wikipedia page on him has me thinking again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Spencer#Political_views |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 23:15 - Nov 2 with 271 views | WeWereZombies |
| UK Government knowingly paid DOUBLE the going market price for facemasks on 19:30 - Oct 21 by Guthrum |
However, it's an interpretation which is subscribed to by quite a few on the left, plus fellow-travellers in the progressive sphere. I've had it expressed to me verbatim, people are still in that thought-pattern.
The problem I have with the use of historical "eras" to define socio-economic progress is that it assumes structures and methods were somewhat uniform during certain time periods. That's not strictly the case. An awful lot of "capitalism" was going on during the supposedly feudal Middle Ages, fuelling wealth accumulation and social climbing (in four generations, an obscure Humberside merchant family rose to be Dukes of Suffolk). Virtually all prominent figures were as loaded with debt (and deperately trying to service it) as any modern big business. |
On the subject of Dukes of Suffolk, I recently read this:
'The Thicks was also the scene of a Tudor picnic, when Charles Brandon, Duke of Suffolk, and his wife, Henry VIII's sister, spread linen in its shade, drank wine, sang songs and ate – what? This story delighted me as a kind of alfresco masque; when I imagined a pretty site a mile or so from the shield-bedecked Augustinian Priory,and some spontaneous desire to make merry out of doors. But then I looked up the Duke — and what a monster! But a good-looking monster, one of the 'new men' of the Reformation who had gone from strength to strength without losing his head. I see him lying full length on the then thick summer grass, the oaks above as young as he is, and by his side his wife Mary who was once Queen of France. Henry was furious when they married in Paris without his permission, but calmed down when her enormous dowry for the first husband was returned in installments. In Suffolk they called her 'the French queen', not the Duchess. She would have been buried in St Edmundsbury Abbey had not her brother pulled it down. But she can be found in a corner of St Mary's Church near by, the woman who ate — what? — in Staverton Thicks.'
The Time by the Sea, Ronald Blythe, Faber, 2013, pages 132-33 | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
