| Plan A transfer targets not going well 12:23 - Aug 2 with 9087 views | IP1Blue |
After January success of getting all our ‘Plan A’ transfer targets, it’s clear to see that it has definitely been a struggle since our promotion!
The 3 signings we have brought in so far have very limited championship experience so are all unknown quantities. Must be frustration for Ashton and Co with the season opener being less than a week away.
Whilst I’m glad we are refusing to pay over the offs for a player just because it’s perceived we have money, it is a little concerning that we haven’t brought in any real championship proven quality as a lot of us would have expected.
I do wonder however if the management team are using this season to see who will can stand up to the challenge and next summer will be when we see the most change where it will be more evident to see where the gaps are in the squad in terms of quality. |  | | |  |
| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 18:38 - Aug 2 with 1514 views | billlm |
| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 13:36 - Aug 2 by pointofblue |
I agree. If we go back to January, Hirst took Ladapo's place, Luongo took an albeit injured Evans position (so replaced Humphreys), Broadhead unseated Harness/Edwards whilst Clarke played ahead of Donacien.
That's how we should be approaching this window too but, so far, it feels like those who have come in are not for the first eleven. Taylor will battle with Luongo rather than clearly take over from him IMO whilst Hirst will pick up his place from last season. If we bring in Kongolo, will he take Burgess' place? Maybe. I can't see Hutchinson being a first reamer straight away except for injuries forcing him to be, and Slicker certainly won't. |
I agree with your post,
To me it dosent seem much of an improvement on the team,
Maybe the squad but not the team,
So ATM it's not a great window,
We seem to have missed our centre half option the Burnley kid,
If we're shopping in the Kongolo window now then we will be mid table at best as our starting 11 has not improved,
Still a month of the transfer window so let's hope two out of the possible three Ashton mentions are stellar and not ahadme editions, |  | | |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 18:47 - Aug 2 with 1476 views | Kieran_Knows |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 15:00 - Aug 2 by NthQldITFC |
I don't know if I'm mis-remembering here, but I'm bloody sure Donacien was doing a fair old bit of overlapping (or more usually underlapping, if that is overlapping on the inside) with Burns early last season and pulling back a lot of those sorts of balls from the byline inside the box that Chaplin so thrives on?
So contrary to a number of people saying JD doesn't offer any attacking threat, I think JD was showing a lot of well timed bursts of pace to interact with Burns up and around the oppo's penalty box.
Or have I dreamed this? |
But if McKenna felt like Donacien was fine for the role, why would he drop
£1m+ on Clarke? |  |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 18:55 - Aug 2 with 1448 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 18:47 - Aug 2 by Kieran_Knows |
But if McKenna felt like Donacien was fine for the role, why would he drop
£1m+ on Clarke? |
Because Clarke is an upgrade. And JD is perfectly capable if he is injured/suspended.
You think we'll have a Clarke quality footballer happy to play second fiddle? You will not find a squad of players in the championship with 25 players in it who are all the same standard. | | | |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:02 - Aug 2 with 1432 views | Kieran_Knows |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 18:55 - Aug 2 by burnbudgiesburn |
Because Clarke is an upgrade. And JD is perfectly capable if he is injured/suspended.
You think we'll have a Clarke quality footballer happy to play second fiddle? You will not find a squad of players in the championship with 25 players in it who are all the same standard. |
But the drop off from Clarke to Donacien is clear, and he hinders our build up play. That’ll become even more apparent in the Championship, let alone League 1.
My point stands as if has all along, if our aim is to consolidate and finish mid table, the ‘squad’ is fine. If our ambitions are higher, alluded to by both Ashton and McKenna, then it’s not. | |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:07 - Aug 2 with 1414 views | pointofblue |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 18:55 - Aug 2 by burnbudgiesburn |
Because Clarke is an upgrade. And JD is perfectly capable if he is injured/suspended.
You think we'll have a Clarke quality footballer happy to play second fiddle? You will not find a squad of players in the championship with 25 players in it who are all the same standard. |
And I think this is where some negativity/pessimsim may be seeping in - it doesn't feel like we've upgraded the squad this summer. Hirst, OK, but he was here last year. Taylor? Not sure if he can do anything that Camara cannot do, so jury's out. In my mind we could have saved £1.5m but let's see - hope I choke on these words. Hutchinson is a squad player and Slicker a fourth choice keeper.
It is true that the window has a month to go, but I remember what happened last year - a desperate scrabble on the 31st to bring in someone who McKenna clearly didn't want from the off and a crock, just to boost numbers.
To put it bluntly, I don't believe the team which will face Sunderland is any better than the one which played Exeter in April. And even if everyone was fit I would think that. | |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:38 - Aug 2 with 1367 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:07 - Aug 2 by pointofblue |
And I think this is where some negativity/pessimsim may be seeping in - it doesn't feel like we've upgraded the squad this summer. Hirst, OK, but he was here last year. Taylor? Not sure if he can do anything that Camara cannot do, so jury's out. In my mind we could have saved £1.5m but let's see - hope I choke on these words. Hutchinson is a squad player and Slicker a fourth choice keeper.
It is true that the window has a month to go, but I remember what happened last year - a desperate scrabble on the 31st to bring in someone who McKenna clearly didn't want from the off and a crock, just to boost numbers.
To put it bluntly, I don't believe the team which will face Sunderland is any better than the one which played Exeter in April. And even if everyone was fit I would think that. |
I sort of concede that point in that I think we have defnitely upgraded the squad, but not the the 1st XI itself. | | | |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:39 - Aug 2 with 1372 views | Guthrum |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:07 - Aug 2 by pointofblue |
And I think this is where some negativity/pessimsim may be seeping in - it doesn't feel like we've upgraded the squad this summer. Hirst, OK, but he was here last year. Taylor? Not sure if he can do anything that Camara cannot do, so jury's out. In my mind we could have saved £1.5m but let's see - hope I choke on these words. Hutchinson is a squad player and Slicker a fourth choice keeper.
It is true that the window has a month to go, but I remember what happened last year - a desperate scrabble on the 31st to bring in someone who McKenna clearly didn't want from the off and a crock, just to boost numbers.
To put it bluntly, I don't believe the team which will face Sunderland is any better than the one which played Exeter in April. And even if everyone was fit I would think that. |
But that then leads to the question: "How good was the team which faced Exeter?" How many Championship teams could have done that kind of demolition job - or, more significantly, put three past both Barnsley and Peterborough without reply (in high pressure games)?
Impossible to quantify either way. But the team which finished the season (from Valentine's Day onwards) was the best in the division - often comfortably so - by pretty much every metric.
In my view likely a decent (if probably not outstanding) Championship-level side. But time will tell. Forest Green were promoted at a canter from L2, but struggled fearfully last season (despite, IMO, looking not bad in the game at their place). I doubt we'll be struggling with relegation, but - particularly not having signed players we wanted - think it's fairly long odds to be ending in the top six. |  |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:46 - Aug 2 with 1351 views | SheffordBlue |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:02 - Aug 2 by Kieran_Knows |
But the drop off from Clarke to Donacien is clear, and he hinders our build up play. That’ll become even more apparent in the Championship, let alone League 1.
My point stands as if has all along, if our aim is to consolidate and finish mid table, the ‘squad’ is fine. If our ambitions are higher, alluded to by both Ashton and McKenna, then it’s not. |
Ashton talks about bringing in new first team starters means that upgrading here is probably a window or two away when we bring in an improvement on Clarke and he becomes the back-up. We just don't have the wriggle room with FFP to upgrade positions that we already did in January.
I think there are much greater priorities this window than JD (unless the Clarke injury is believed to be long term in which case there's an argument for a loan with a break clause in Jan). | |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:56 - Aug 2 with 1327 views | pointofblue |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:39 - Aug 2 by Guthrum |
But that then leads to the question: "How good was the team which faced Exeter?" How many Championship teams could have done that kind of demolition job - or, more significantly, put three past both Barnsley and Peterborough without reply (in high pressure games)?
Impossible to quantify either way. But the team which finished the season (from Valentine's Day onwards) was the best in the division - often comfortably so - by pretty much every metric.
In my view likely a decent (if probably not outstanding) Championship-level side. But time will tell. Forest Green were promoted at a canter from L2, but struggled fearfully last season (despite, IMO, looking not bad in the game at their place). I doubt we'll be struggling with relegation, but - particularly not having signed players we wanted - think it's fairly long odds to be ending in the top six. |
That's true but every team looks to upgrade over the summer. The Championship was pretty shocking last season and if everyone was going into the season with 2022/23 squads then I would be quietly confident of a top six place. But others have moved forward where it feels like, for now, we have stood still. And therefore I agree with you, I don't think we'll finish in, or anywhere near, the top six. But that's not down to the platform we built in League One; it's because we've failed to build on it over the summer (so far). | |
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| The sudden acceptance of mediocrity.... on 20:07 - Aug 2 with 1315 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The sudden acceptance of mediocrity.... on 14:49 - Aug 2 by pointofblue |
Much lower? We were rock bottom of the Championship and looked utterly clueless when Mick was appointed. |
I would say a long way short of the play offs in League 1 with a collection of players that didn't suit any system is a long way short of bottom of the Championship with a nucleus of a squad with good Championship experience.
Mick did well but McKenna has done better. Mid-table consolidation would be fine for a season to build towards promotion next season. Of course, the long-term goal is to get to the Premier League and in a fit state to stay there. I am trusting that project without a need for it to be instant.
For what it's worth, I am confident we will get a couple of signings in before the end of the month and that we will improve further in January. I am confident we will have a good push for the play-offs too. Time will tell. |  |
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| The sudden acceptance of mediocrity.... on 20:11 - Aug 2 with 1306 views | the_toff |
| The sudden acceptance of mediocrity.... on 20:07 - Aug 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I would say a long way short of the play offs in League 1 with a collection of players that didn't suit any system is a long way short of bottom of the Championship with a nucleus of a squad with good Championship experience.
Mick did well but McKenna has done better. Mid-table consolidation would be fine for a season to build towards promotion next season. Of course, the long-term goal is to get to the Premier League and in a fit state to stay there. I am trusting that project without a need for it to be instant.
For what it's worth, I am confident we will get a couple of signings in before the end of the month and that we will improve further in January. I am confident we will have a good push for the play-offs too. Time will tell. |
The way I see it is we were too far gone in KM's first season to mount a serious push, that was about having a go but ultimately instilling his ideas and philosophy into the squad. Last season was 100% operation promotion, which we delivered in style. I would say this season will be one of progression and adjustment. That's not to say we wont approach each game to win of course, and who knows, it's a 46 game season and we've certainly got an outside sniff of doing something. If we have a chance in January we would invest I'm sure, like we did last season, but a top 10 finish would feel like a good outcome to me, with a view to 'going for it' the following year. It would be our highest league finish in 9 years if we better 12th.
To go from 11th / 9th / 11th in League 1 to 2nd, then middling Championship and then top end Championship side (perhaps even promotion) in 3 seasons would be a very good level of progression. I think it's really naive to think otherwise when the league is full of clubs with the same ambitions, deeper pockets (with regards FFP head room), and frankly we're not as big a fish in this league as we were in L1. Of course we should aim for the moon but need a healthy dose or realism that 'only' reaching the stars would be a good outcome. | | | |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 20:13 - Aug 2 with 1302 views | StokieBlue |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:07 - Aug 2 by pointofblue |
And I think this is where some negativity/pessimsim may be seeping in - it doesn't feel like we've upgraded the squad this summer. Hirst, OK, but he was here last year. Taylor? Not sure if he can do anything that Camara cannot do, so jury's out. In my mind we could have saved £1.5m but let's see - hope I choke on these words. Hutchinson is a squad player and Slicker a fourth choice keeper.
It is true that the window has a month to go, but I remember what happened last year - a desperate scrabble on the 31st to bring in someone who McKenna clearly didn't want from the off and a crock, just to boost numbers.
To put it bluntly, I don't believe the team which will face Sunderland is any better than the one which played Exeter in April. And even if everyone was fit I would think that. |
How have you decided that Hutchinson is a squad player without actually seeing him in a competitive match?
Various commentators have been raving about him and citing him as a possible shout for a potential breakthrough season.
SB |  |
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| Even SW, with their disastrous owner.... on 20:17 - Aug 2 with 1292 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Even SW, with their disastrous owner.... on 13:55 - Aug 2 by Bloots |
....have brought in more players than we have.
Plymouth have brought in 7.
Of course there will be arguments about "quality", "replacing" and "improving" but the gap between the 3 promoted clubs last season was minimal and we certainly haven't improved our starting 11 to any real degree.
Opinions, opinions...... |
Plymouth are a very well run club that will surprise many this season. Very few expected them to repeat their near-success of two seasons ago last season. They improved and won the division with over 100 points. I would not be at all surprised to see them top 6 this season.
Would you be excited if we had added Pol Valentin, Juan Delgado, Di'Shon Bernard and Reece James to our squad instead of Slicker, Hutchinson, Hirst and Taylor? It isn't simply about signing 4 players, it is about getting the right players who will improve the squad. Additionally, Wednesday have lost their keeper Stockdale and back-up right-back Jack Hunt. | |
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| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 20:21 - Aug 2 with 1282 views | pennblue |
Need to give them time, the more pressure they get from fans the more likely we will sign the wrong people
We will miss out on a few this year as we are perceived as a league one promoted club only
If we finish top 6, next summer will be a lot different | |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 20:24 - Aug 2 with 1272 views | itfcjoe |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:07 - Aug 2 by pointofblue |
And I think this is where some negativity/pessimsim may be seeping in - it doesn't feel like we've upgraded the squad this summer. Hirst, OK, but he was here last year. Taylor? Not sure if he can do anything that Camara cannot do, so jury's out. In my mind we could have saved £1.5m but let's see - hope I choke on these words. Hutchinson is a squad player and Slicker a fourth choice keeper.
It is true that the window has a month to go, but I remember what happened last year - a desperate scrabble on the 31st to bring in someone who McKenna clearly didn't want from the off and a crock, just to boost numbers.
To put it bluntly, I don't believe the team which will face Sunderland is any better than the one which played Exeter in April. And even if everyone was fit I would think that. |
Camara was fit for 3 months at back end of last season and couldn’t get near team, and then we went out and signed Taylor who we chased for 3 windows…..it’s clear he is seen as big upgrade on Camara |  |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 20:36 - Aug 2 with 1245 views | commuterblue |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 19:02 - Aug 2 by Kieran_Knows |
But the drop off from Clarke to Donacien is clear, and he hinders our build up play. That’ll become even more apparent in the Championship, let alone League 1.
My point stands as if has all along, if our aim is to consolidate and finish mid table, the ‘squad’ is fine. If our ambitions are higher, alluded to by both Ashton and McKenna, then it’s not. |
Pretty much everyone agrees that Clarke is better than Donacien.
But to say that Donacien hinders our build up play ignores the evidence of the last half of two seasons ago and the first half of last season. When Donacien is fully fit he is more than happy to bomb on. As shown in eg the second home game of last season against MK Dons. |  |
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| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 20:41 - Aug 2 with 1235 views | Swansea_Blue |
We’ll be fine.
#100points#102goals
All aboard!
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| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 20:45 - Aug 2 with 1223 views | braveblue |
Which Plan A players have we missed out on then?
One of the really good changes made is the lack of rumours before signings. Ashton said 2 or 3 coming in. Wait and see. | | | |
| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 20:46 - Aug 2 with 1225 views | commuterblue |
| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 18:37 - Aug 2 by cressi |
Once your satisfied you don't progress always got to look to improve, nobody knows how we will do im not against a wee old head at the back when we went up mogga and venus weren't bad for a bit long in the tooth, |
A grizzly 30 year old championship left sided CB, who is comfortable on the ball would be fab. And I'd love Burgess to push him throughout the season, as he improved so much last year. | |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 22:21 - Aug 2 with 1109 views | pointofblue |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 20:13 - Aug 2 by StokieBlue |
How have you decided that Hutchinson is a squad player without actually seeing him in a competitive match?
Various commentators have been raving about him and citing him as a possible shout for a potential breakthrough season.
SB |
As I'm not sure who he'll replace to be a first teamer at this point - Burns, Chaplin or Broadhead?
When Hirst came in, it was clear he'd be pulling rank over Ladapo. When Luongo arrived, he was being paired with Morsy. Broadhead was clearly going to play on the left. Clarke was going to get the nod at right back. Hutchinson? Not sure. Maybe he will soon usurp someone and become a main stay, but it doesn't feel as definite as the January signings, for example. | |
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| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 06:24 - Aug 3 with 983 views | ElephantintheRoom |
I don’t get this mania for signings, signings and yet more signings. Granted in franchise football it hardly matters who plays, or indeed where the franchise plays. How many have there been in the last two years…34?
what happened to the concept of identifying with your own players and team , rather than constantly craving someone else’s? | |
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| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 06:45 - Aug 3 with 974 views | tractorboy1978 |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 20:36 - Aug 2 by commuterblue |
Pretty much everyone agrees that Clarke is better than Donacien.
But to say that Donacien hinders our build up play ignores the evidence of the last half of two seasons ago and the first half of last season. When Donacien is fully fit he is more than happy to bomb on. As shown in eg the second home game of last season against MK Dons. |
I went to the Luton game and was sitting just above the dugouts. McKenna was getting pretty frustrated with Donacien for his lack of attacking urgency and ‘safe passing’ inside in the first half of that game. I think Ball might quickly make himself our second choice RB this season. | | | |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 07:20 - Aug 3 with 913 views | Kieran_Knows |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 20:36 - Aug 2 by commuterblue |
Pretty much everyone agrees that Clarke is better than Donacien.
But to say that Donacien hinders our build up play ignores the evidence of the last half of two seasons ago and the first half of last season. When Donacien is fully fit he is more than happy to bomb on. As shown in eg the second home game of last season against MK Dons. |
My point stands again then, if McKenna felt Donacien could play that role, and play it well, why did he spend £1m+ on Clarke? Or felt the need to improve that position, given KVY was still here as well?
In my eyes, and maybe I watch different games, but the difference to what Clarke and Donacien give us, from January onwards was fairly obvious to me, and as I say, that was League 1. | |
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| Plan A transfer targets not going well on 07:34 - Aug 3 with 907 views | IPS_wich |
Since we got our Plan A transfer targets by the third week in January our league record was:
P: 19
W: 14
D: 5
L: 0
F: 52
A: 6
In that period we also comfortably knocked out Rotherham in the FA Cup and it took Burnley to the 185th minute over two legs to beat us.
Yes we finished second in the league because of a combination of giving Plymouth a head start and their uncanny knack of eeking out late winners - but in 2023 we have been almost unbeatable (the only league loss being in the farcical fog at Oxford).
I'm very comfortable that even if we started with the squad we finished with (yes, which does include Hirst) that we would be a 8th-10th finisher in the Championship. | | | |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 07:44 - Aug 3 with 891 views | NthQldITFC |
| So we weren't "streets ahead" of everyone..... on 18:47 - Aug 2 by Kieran_Knows |
But if McKenna felt like Donacien was fine for the role, why would he drop
£1m+ on Clarke? |
Because Clarke is a bit of an upgrade on Donacien, more so when you take potential into account, but most importantly he was a big upgrade on Vincent-Young (or he allowed Donacien to be a big upgrade on Vincent-Young). |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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