| PLC Share Dividends 12:58 - Apr 29 with 4214 views | Zx1988 |
Having read the news article stating that there will be no dividend for PLC shareholders this year, and that any and all future dividends will be paid in their entirety to GameChanger, I was just wondering what others make of this.
For clarity, I have no skin in the game here; I wasn't anywhere near old/well-off enough to buy shares back in 2003.
I get the point of view that those who bought the shares probably saw it as a donation to the club in return for a share certificate, with little/no expectation of the shares ever generating a dividend or being worth anything, but is it right for the PLC board to be making a unanimous decision to that effect without consulting the shareholders?
What about those who may have fallen upon harder times, and had a little hope post-GC that the shares might end up being worth something or bought back?
If they're going to essentially treat the shares as worthless, would the decent thing to do not be to offer to buy them back as a token gesture of thanks? |  |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 14:52 - Apr 29 with 876 views | Zx1988 |
| PLC Share Dividends on 14:27 - Apr 29 by Illinoisblue |
Roughly, what was the total amount put in back then? To what extent did they save the club? |
Very roughly I'm guessing about £700k as a minimum, on the basis that the minimum investment at the time was £200 (ten ordinary shares), and Phil's article today mentions there being 3,500 shareholders. It may be more than this depending on how many people bought more than the minimum amount.
At the time the club was looking to raise £1.25m in working capital to cover the next twelve months' expenditure, so I would assume that £700k would have gone a long way towards this.
https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/21990721.town-looks-generous-fans/ | |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 14:58 - Apr 29 with 864 views | PhilTWTD |
| PLC Share Dividends on 14:27 - Apr 29 by Illinoisblue |
Roughly, what was the total amount put in back then? To what extent did they save the club? |
Raised £1.75m.
 Shares Raise £1.75m 3rd Feb 2004 13:04Town's share issue raised £1,746,420, around £400,000 added to the total during the two-week extension. The initial public offer of shares was closed last Friday.  0
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| PLC Share Dividends on 15:02 - Apr 29 with 849 views | PhilTWTD |
| PLC Share Dividends on 14:21 - Apr 29 by nrb1985 |
Not really true, there are probably preference shares and shares with voting rights attached and some that aren't etc etc.
Bottom line - ITFC is now a growth company and they shouldn't be distributing capital to anyone for now. All dividends should be re invested. I doubt GC will be taking any out to that end.
The point of owning a sports team for these institutional investors isn't to pay yourselves dividends while running it, it's to make A LOT when you sell it. |
I think the plan is that dividends will go towards paying back some of the investment as well as stakes sold as per the recent investment and an eventual sale longer term. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:11 - Apr 29 with 803 views | PhilTWTD |
| PLC Share Dividends on 14:45 - Apr 29 by Reus30 |
I think with this and the Nodge away stuff, it's just the way things are communicated.
The wording is rather blunt, maybe brutal, maybe condescending. Seems to be a running theme on the last couple of comms issued.
Also side note, I am sure the rest of us who didn't put in at the time, are very thankful those of you that did. |
Think it's worth pointing out that this didn't come from the club but the PLC. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:17 - Apr 29 with 791 views | Illinoisblue |
| PLC Share Dividends on 14:58 - Apr 29 by PhilTWTD |
Raised £1.75m.
Shares Raise £1.75m 3rd Feb 2004 13:04Town's share issue raised £1,746,420, around £400,000 added to the total during the two-week extension. The initial public offer of shares was closed last Friday. 0
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Thx. A not insignificant amount. Wasn’t there a scheme by those rascals in Norfolk to request those glossy printed share prospectuses and thus add costs to the whole process. I’m guessing a few of them participated in that but ultimately achieved nothing. |  |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 15:36 - Apr 29 with 764 views | Battersea_Blue |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:11 - Apr 29 by PhilTWTD |
Think it's worth pointing out that this didn't come from the club but the PLC. |
Yes, that's true, though the email came from an itfc email address, which I won't provide, meaning it's still from ITFC or representatives of ITFC, as far as I'm concerned.
I put a pretty sizeable chunk in, twice, in both offerings. I met with David Sheepshanks prior to the first one to discuss it.
Like most, I didn't do it as an investment or to look to cash in at any point. I did it purely to help the club at the time as they couldn't even make the payroll one particular week. With the help of myself and a few others who put in sizeable amounts, they did. Everybody who put in, even if it was £100, should not only be commended but remembered too.
In business terms, with all the new investment, of course we've all been diluted by a huge amount. Nothing wrong with that, though it could be said that IF we get promoted the club will be worth significantly more and therefore those shares will have greater value.
But all that is not important to me. What has peeved me, as another poster or two have mentioned, is the tone of the email. I actually think it's disgraceful and shows no respect for what we all did at the time. The timing sucks too.
I'd love to know who drafted that letter and who approved it, cos they need a kick up the Harris. I do still have contacts at high level and I'm going to investigate this as it's peed me off at a time when excitement is at fever pitch due to Kieran and the boys. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:45 - Apr 29 with 731 views | PhilTWTD |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:17 - Apr 29 by Illinoisblue |
Thx. A not insignificant amount. Wasn’t there a scheme by those rascals in Norfolk to request those glossy printed share prospectuses and thus add costs to the whole process. I’m guessing a few of them participated in that but ultimately achieved nothing. |
Yes, I do seem to recall that! | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:47 - Apr 29 with 723 views | AscotBlue |
Never expected any sort of financial return from helping to bail out our beloved club all those years ago but I do think those of us who were able to and did help out at the time haven't ever really been especially well treated by the club.
Sure, for our "investment" we got a few nice things like a signed shirt, stadium tour, etc. but other than an annual invite to the AGM we've never had anything else from the club, except this slightly bluntly worded email/letter. I think a previous poster's suggestion of a wall naming those that helped out, might be a bit much but it's not entirely unreasonable. Personally, right now, I'd settle for a ticket in the away end at Coventry tomorrow night! | | | |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 15:50 - Apr 29 with 714 views | trncbluearmy |
It's the way it has been done I find annoying.
A signicant group of Town fans, some paying a lot more then the minimum helped the club at a time of crisis.
Personally I never expected any return but in the back of my mind was when things improved it would have been nice to receive a small dividend.
The option to donate the dividend to the Foundation would have been more then acceptable.
I feel the club has treated a signicant group of fans with contempt.
And the timing is bloody awful. |  | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:54 - Apr 29 with 698 views | Zx1988 |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:50 - Apr 29 by trncbluearmy |
It's the way it has been done I find annoying.
A signicant group of Town fans, some paying a lot more then the minimum helped the club at a time of crisis.
Personally I never expected any return but in the back of my mind was when things improved it would have been nice to receive a small dividend.
The option to donate the dividend to the Foundation would have been more then acceptable.
I feel the club has treated a signicant group of fans with contempt.
And the timing is bloody awful. |
Someone more cynical than me might even suggest that the timing is perfect from the PLC's point of view - put the news out there whilst people are more focused upon other things. Certainly better than throwing it out into the news vacuum of the close-season. [Post edited 29 Apr 16:13]
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| PLC Share Dividends on 15:55 - Apr 29 with 696 views | nrb1985 |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:02 - Apr 29 by PhilTWTD |
I think the plan is that dividends will go towards paying back some of the investment as well as stakes sold as per the recent investment and an eventual sale longer term. |
Interesting - usually for a "growing" company you wouldn't pay dividends out. Even rarer in these kinds of private market transactions.
FWIW - what's your gut feeling on expected timeline and how they'll exit? My heart says long term (another 7-10yrs), head says if we get up and stabilize they'll be out in 3-4 years without having the hassle of building a new stand but having secured planning permission. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:02 - Apr 29 with 672 views | Ivyboy17 |
| PLC Share Dividends on 13:14 - Apr 29 by Pinewoodblue |
I purchased shares in the ‘runt’ company with no expectation of anything other than keeping the club in existence. Purchased shares for kids was well, so they have certificates.
The new company has kept the old company afloat by covering all expenses for the last 20 years. Our shares are worthless.
Would have been nice if we had been invited to increase our investment and maintain a more significant holding in the club but we all know it wouldn’t have worked, not enough shareholders would be willing / able to increase their investment,
Looking ahead would you be willing to pump money into the club by buying shares, if offered?
Question, Esther than start a new thread. I received my notification by email, there was an attachment which seems to relate to an AGM but it is password protected so can’t open it. Presumably some still make the company post such notices out. Can anyone share the details? |
Hi...I'd be interested in buy any shares that are no longer required. COYB | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:04 - Apr 29 with 671 views | sylvanb |
| PLC Share Dividends on 13:14 - Apr 29 by Pinewoodblue |
I purchased shares in the ‘runt’ company with no expectation of anything other than keeping the club in existence. Purchased shares for kids was well, so they have certificates.
The new company has kept the old company afloat by covering all expenses for the last 20 years. Our shares are worthless.
Would have been nice if we had been invited to increase our investment and maintain a more significant holding in the club but we all know it wouldn’t have worked, not enough shareholders would be willing / able to increase their investment,
Looking ahead would you be willing to pump money into the club by buying shares, if offered?
Question, Esther than start a new thread. I received my notification by email, there was an attachment which seems to relate to an AGM but it is password protected so can’t open it. Presumably some still make the company post such notices out. Can anyone share the details? |
Sending the attachment was an error I think - it's notice of the AGM from last year - password was provided at the time of the notice of the AGM. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:08 - Apr 29 with 655 views | PhilTWTD |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:54 - Apr 29 by Zx1988 |
Someone more cynical than me might even suggest that the timing is perfect from the PLC's point of view - put the news out there whilst people are more focused upon other things. Certainly better than throwing it out into the news vacuum of the close-season. [Post edited 29 Apr 16:13]
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The club didn't have anything to do with the timing of the announcement. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:09 - Apr 29 with 655 views | PhilTWTD |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:36 - Apr 29 by Battersea_Blue |
Yes, that's true, though the email came from an itfc email address, which I won't provide, meaning it's still from ITFC or representatives of ITFC, as far as I'm concerned.
I put a pretty sizeable chunk in, twice, in both offerings. I met with David Sheepshanks prior to the first one to discuss it.
Like most, I didn't do it as an investment or to look to cash in at any point. I did it purely to help the club at the time as they couldn't even make the payroll one particular week. With the help of myself and a few others who put in sizeable amounts, they did. Everybody who put in, even if it was £100, should not only be commended but remembered too.
In business terms, with all the new investment, of course we've all been diluted by a huge amount. Nothing wrong with that, though it could be said that IF we get promoted the club will be worth significantly more and therefore those shares will have greater value.
But all that is not important to me. What has peeved me, as another poster or two have mentioned, is the tone of the email. I actually think it's disgraceful and shows no respect for what we all did at the time. The timing sucks too.
I'd love to know who drafted that letter and who approved it, cos they need a kick up the Harris. I do still have contacts at high level and I'm going to investigate this as it's peed me off at a time when excitement is at fever pitch due to Kieran and the boys. |
That is true, they use an itfc.co.uk address but not Town per se or a Town media release as such. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:12 - Apr 29 with 643 views | PhilTWTD |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:55 - Apr 29 by nrb1985 |
Interesting - usually for a "growing" company you wouldn't pay dividends out. Even rarer in these kinds of private market transactions.
FWIW - what's your gut feeling on expected timeline and how they'll exit? My heart says long term (another 7-10yrs), head says if we get up and stabilize they'll be out in 3-4 years without having the hassle of building a new stand but having secured planning permission. |
I can only go on what I've been told and that's that it's viewed as a longer-term investment of 10-15 years, something like that. If we go up this year, then I'd imagine Premier League football has come more quickly than expected, so whether that changes that, I'm not sure. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:13 - Apr 29 with 623 views | Zx1988 |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:08 - Apr 29 by PhilTWTD |
The club didn't have anything to do with the timing of the announcement. |
Good point, Phil - edited for accuracy. | |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 16:18 - Apr 29 with 612 views | ellaandred |
A slightly different take.
There were 7 levels of investment and depending how much the investor gave the club so the more 'benefits' they received.
For example- Level 1- Souvenir share certificate (signed by Joe Royle & Jim Magilton) , name in the match-day programme.
Level 2 - as level 1 plus £25 voucher for Planet Blue, Exclusive silk tie/silk scarf, replica 1978 cup final shirt signed by Roger Osborne.
Etc,etc
I invested (gave some money to the club) and never expected a return so my level of investment was chosen by the add on benefits, which I did enjoy.
Think the notification could have been handled better though. | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:26 - Apr 29 with 591 views | Radlett_blue |
When Evans bought Town, part of the deal was that if he then sold the club on, the PLC shareholders were entitled to the same value for their shares as Evans received. When Evans sold, this meant that PLC ahareholders would have been entitled to only 35p a share, rather than the £20 a share that they paid. The PLC directors (owning over 50% of the PLC shares) decided this wasn't worth having.
I think it would have been nice if PLC shareholders were made whole, but Gamechanger neither had nor have any obligation to do so, although this would cost them around £2m. |  |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 16:26 - Apr 29 with 588 views | hoppy |
| PLC Share Dividends on 15:17 - Apr 29 by Illinoisblue |
Thx. A not insignificant amount. Wasn’t there a scheme by those rascals in Norfolk to request those glossy printed share prospectuses and thus add costs to the whole process. I’m guessing a few of them participated in that but ultimately achieved nothing. |
Isn't that just typical of them up the road?
Surely it's one of their aims to be able to say they "participated in that but ultimately achieved nothing" |  |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 16:53 - Apr 29 with 490 views | Ryorry |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:18 - Apr 29 by ellaandred |
A slightly different take.
There were 7 levels of investment and depending how much the investor gave the club so the more 'benefits' they received.
For example- Level 1- Souvenir share certificate (signed by Joe Royle & Jim Magilton) , name in the match-day programme.
Level 2 - as level 1 plus £25 voucher for Planet Blue, Exclusive silk tie/silk scarf, replica 1978 cup final shirt signed by Roger Osborne.
Etc,etc
I invested (gave some money to the club) and never expected a return so my level of investment was chosen by the add on benefits, which I did enjoy.
Think the notification could have been handled better though. |
Not sure what level 20 shares put me at, but I certainly got no offer of a signed shirt! |  |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 17:10 - Apr 29 with 429 views | Churchman |
| PLC Share Dividends on 16:12 - Apr 29 by PhilTWTD |
I can only go on what I've been told and that's that it's viewed as a longer-term investment of 10-15 years, something like that. If we go up this year, then I'd imagine Premier League football has come more quickly than expected, so whether that changes that, I'm not sure. |
My unqualified impression is that these people are as much ‘real estate’ guys as anything else and are looking to build something. That kind of ties in with the timescales you are talking about.
Maybe they are quick flip merchants, but everything they’ve said and done suggests not to me. Maybe I’m being over optimistic. |  | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 17:10 - Apr 29 with 430 views | trncbluearmy |
Two big plusses from this
Dividend scandal has passed a day that was really going to drag
Has that elephant twit finally and deservedly got himself banned? | | | |
| PLC Share Dividends on 17:14 - Apr 29 with 419 views | hoppy |
| PLC Share Dividends on 17:10 - Apr 29 by Churchman |
My unqualified impression is that these people are as much ‘real estate’ guys as anything else and are looking to build something. That kind of ties in with the timescales you are talking about.
Maybe they are quick flip merchants, but everything they’ve said and done suggests not to me. Maybe I’m being over optimistic. |
Surely, and this may just be my simplistic take on it, but wouldn't sustained longevity in the premier League make them more residually than selling out on reaching it? | |
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| PLC Share Dividends on 17:21 - Apr 29 with 390 views | Ryorry |
| PLC Share Dividends on 17:10 - Apr 29 by trncbluearmy |
Two big plusses from this
Dividend scandal has passed a day that was really going to drag
Has that elephant twit finally and deservedly got himself banned? |
Nellie still has a profile, along with a -806 forum score 
Don't understand how someone deliberately libelling our owners is still a forum member tbh. Being a member but not of TWTD should be enough for him. | |
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