| This "terrible window" may not be so 09:12 - Feb 4 with 6070 views | Mullet |
Diagouraga clearly wants to play. He was busting his sizeable gut at PNE and has some class about him. He complimented Skuse perfectly. I would sign him permanently if given the choice, simply because he needs a fresh start and we need players exactly like him to go again before others get a march on us..
Huws was a talent. I remember being impressed when he broke through. Seems that injury has been part of his quick disappearance. I'm intrigued to know what shape he is in. Again the fact he'll take a pay cut to get football in is promising. If we could, we probably should tap him up fairly quickly I'm guessing.
Spence amazes me that he couldn't get a deal. He looks handy at this level. I can only assume he was one who took an ME style approach to the market and value this summer. Or was very unlucky.
Part of me hopes Taylor might be the new JdV rather than a reverse Reo-Coker plummeting through football's tiers and we're now lower than an MLS franchise in scale.
The big issue being, with MM likely being shown the door as it is. We'll need a new man, new faces and lots of them any way. But all three of those are exactly the sorts of players we'll be looking at if we carry on as we are, or change only a little bit in terms of upping investment.
Similar to when we got McGoldrick and Murphy permanently. Players that had a question mark or three over their heads but previous talent. That said, Leon Best fits that category too.
The others are punts. I like the look of Moore and at least he and Rowe are ours. I fear for them though, they're going to have to work bloody hard to impress a new manager and even if Mick did stay, they might not do enough like so many others.
For me the big problem is the next six months aren't certain. I just don't see us going down unless the fans and players implode upon each other and we set ourselves into a death spiral. The bottom three seem just too crap and far away still.
If we knew Mick was staying/going you could see if these stopgaps are just that and accept Evans is probably selling as soon as too. If Mick is being backed in the summer you could argue that he's getting the basis of his new squad together now in some respects.
I don't think the window has been terrible. It's the season and leadership as a whole. You get the impression that Mick straddles the gap between ME and fans. As that's become increasingly bigger, he hasn't and will be the one to disappear while "us and them" drift further apart.
The future of the club looks bad. Evans needs to, for want of a better phrase "sort it out" sharpish. |  |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 10:59 - Feb 4 with 1536 views | SWGF |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 10:49 - Feb 4 by Superfrans |
You are being extremely positive, congratulations for that.
I'm not sure about some of them, but Diagouraga did indeed look handy vs Preston, Moore is raw but has potential, Taylor I'm pleased with and am looking forward to seeing the loans and how focussed they are.
The window was marred by our inability to sign the striker we need (and has compounded the view that we're either targeting the wrong players or not willing to spend market rates), the treatment of Chambers and (not unconnected with the second point) the terrible first half vs Derby.
But none of that is the fault of the new guys. We should support them and hope they deliver on some level - personally, I'm reasonably confident some of them will. |
Problem is the perception of short-termism and desperation.
Had we signed Diagouraga permanently (and given he's been available since Monk took over, there's no reason why he couldn't have signed on 1st Jan if he was on our radar) and Huws (who's out of favour at Cardiff), and marketed/communicated it as livening up our pedestrian/stolid central midfield, then fans see it differently.
Having signed Moore, why then sign Samuel (again on loan) from another Champ club?
You can fully understand the fans' frustration given the noises coming out of the club (from both Milne and McCarthy) since Murphy left in regards to spending cash, having a list, etc. Once you do that and you don't land anyone, you're in trouble.
And fans will obviously then link it all together (rightly or wrongly) to MM leaving in the summer and then there's that hanging over the club.
Has just been a shambles but not surprising. |  |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:02 - Feb 4 with 1522 views | Mullet |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 10:17 - Feb 4 by Dubtractor |
It was a shambles of a window, but probably not the end of the world.
If Mick is to leave in the Summer, as seems likely, then it is probably better that we keep our powder dryish now.
I'd like to know what we have spent on these loanees though - we're constantly told that they all take a chunk out of our budget, and if we have spent any significant sum on squad filler then I'd be disappointed. |
I think that's the problem though we're making judgement calls when we haven't seen the results.
We needed to replace Murphy, but as I said there's nothing doing this season does it need doing now as opposed to the summer. The league calendar doesn't run January to January despite what some stataletes might want to argue.
The loans is an issue. What did Williams do to our budget? We never seem to get a clear answer. The problem being that we've started from a negative position since Mick walked in.
We barely owned anything thanks to Jewell. Mick's had to make that gap up without enough money to start with. Time was only ever going to tell eventually. When you have that compounded by a record year for injuries it's little surprise we've got the wrong kind of "new broom" scenario. | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:05 - Feb 4 with 1510 views | pointofblue |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 10:31 - Feb 4 by TLA |
The cost of the game has indeed moved on at a ridiculous rate. I don't think we will match that under the current regime, meaning the first thing that needs to change is our expectations. |
But what does this mean moving forward? What future does this club have? The top end clubs in this league are prepared to spend £10m+ on one player whilst we have not spent that amount (in fees at least) in an entire window for years.
Marcus' five point plan doesn't reveal an end game - what is he hoping to achieve? Promotion? Stabilisation? Relegation and bringing through a young talented squad at a lower level? And if one of the former two does he really thing we can manage it on the current spending level, particularly as he'll have to spend more to bridge the gap between income and outgoings as the seasons go by with no chance of success. |  |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:05 - Feb 4 with 1515 views | Mullet |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 10:59 - Feb 4 by SWGF |
Problem is the perception of short-termism and desperation.
Had we signed Diagouraga permanently (and given he's been available since Monk took over, there's no reason why he couldn't have signed on 1st Jan if he was on our radar) and Huws (who's out of favour at Cardiff), and marketed/communicated it as livening up our pedestrian/stolid central midfield, then fans see it differently.
Having signed Moore, why then sign Samuel (again on loan) from another Champ club?
You can fully understand the fans' frustration given the noises coming out of the club (from both Milne and McCarthy) since Murphy left in regards to spending cash, having a list, etc. Once you do that and you don't land anyone, you're in trouble.
And fans will obviously then link it all together (rightly or wrongly) to MM leaving in the summer and then there's that hanging over the club.
Has just been a shambles but not surprising. |
We've been toothless and poor up top for months. Surely limiting it to one body makes no sense especially when that's Moore?
If we couldn't replace Murphy again this window permanently, isn't a loan better than an empty space?
I don't think the club have handled it very well, but how can you handle a situation like this well? Had they said nothing it'd be back to these Wizard of Oz type fantasies about Evans again from Doob and more surely? | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:23 - Feb 4 with 1465 views | howdonblue |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 09:45 - Feb 4 by Mullet |
But where were this "2 or 3 quality signings" going to come from? This is what I don't understand.
We're always going to be overpaying for Champ players. Is it better to burn up that money now, when it might be better spent in the summer?
The season's over. We're probably not going anywhere of note bar Burton Albion for a jolly. "Developing a striker for Reading" in the space of what 3-4 months? I know Mick is an excellent manager but even I can't see that as anything but an exaggeration.
The issue is, none of us know where stand any more. We're like a character from a Bob Dylan song. People can chuck about the "once great club" sh1te all they like, but we've got an owner who seems to be wandering from one shelf of BOGOF deals to another trying to make a tenner stretch to the whole week.
Meanwhile other clubs are just getting the credit card out and worrying about it tomorrow. As nasty as it sounds, if one or two went bust ME might be vindicated a little. That's not going to happen though, so we're stuck wondering if he's being shrewd and biding his time when the suspicion and easier conclusion is to presume he's just outgunned, badly so. |
All most town fans want is the chairman to sign a decent level of player and not loans who are getting someone's player fit and not to our long term benefit !
I also do hope that Taylor turns out to be our new jdvs!
Cos if he is fit and up for it he will be a great addition I'm sure of that |  | | |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:26 - Feb 4 with 1457 views | Benters |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 09:38 - Feb 4 by itfcjoe |
The window was a shambles. The club needed a lift with 2 or 3 quality signings and we got nothing in that mold.
We've ended up with 5 stop gap signings who come into the club unfit, with no permanent deals lined up, including loan players of clubs in our division including developing a striker for Reading.
And 2 punts from non league.
The club needed a pick me up and got a kick in the balls. |
This . |  |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:27 - Feb 4 with 1458 views | SWGF |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:05 - Feb 4 by Mullet |
We've been toothless and poor up top for months. Surely limiting it to one body makes no sense especially when that's Moore?
If we couldn't replace Murphy again this window permanently, isn't a loan better than an empty space?
I don't think the club have handled it very well, but how can you handle a situation like this well? Had they said nothing it'd be back to these Wizard of Oz type fantasies about Evans again from Doob and more surely? |
Again, it's the perception which is amplified/multiplied.
We've had five months to get a Murphy replacement, been told we've got the cash, been told ME has a list of players (some of which will actually cost money according to MM) and then in the last hours of the window we sign a kid on loan from Readiing who's previously scored two goals in the Champ and who we have no intention/chance of buying should he do well, especially when that doesn't fit in with the fabled "five point plan". | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:48 - Feb 4 with 1428 views | Mullet |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:27 - Feb 4 by SWGF |
Again, it's the perception which is amplified/multiplied.
We've had five months to get a Murphy replacement, been told we've got the cash, been told ME has a list of players (some of which will actually cost money according to MM) and then in the last hours of the window we sign a kid on loan from Readiing who's previously scored two goals in the Champ and who we have no intention/chance of buying should he do well, especially when that doesn't fit in with the fabled "five point plan". |
I agree, but perception is also partly responsible for the fans being unreasonable too (Dougie springs immediately to mind) so that's a two way street. Some people simply refuse to accept anything, regardless and that breeds the sort of disdain growing right now.
The "five point plan" seems to be as much a fan invention as anything else though. I never felt like it was more than Sheepy's "5 year plan" a rough sketch that should never have been seen, quite frankly as it's open to this sort of stuff.
No one seems to have told me why replacing Murphy now is better than in the summer. I still don't understand that. Especially if Mick is off. | |
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| This on 11:50 - Feb 4 with 1423 views | Superfrans |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 10:26 - Feb 4 by SWGF |
"Can't afford" or "not willing to pay"? The game (and cost of that game) has moved on. Evans and McCarthy have not. |
I think you're missing a key point here.
The problem is that the going rate has become financial suicide. We have a turnover of £16m. How are we going to afford 1 player for £10-£12m, which has become he going rate for a quality striker in this division?
there are clubs willing to pay "sh!t or bust" money for players, which has pushed up the going rate.
There are lots of people scrabbling round for answers at the moment (myself included). I'm sure Evans is too. Problem is, I do wonder whether there is one - aside from fundamental reform of football and it's financing. |  |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:54 - Feb 4 with 1399 views | SWGF |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:48 - Feb 4 by Mullet |
I agree, but perception is also partly responsible for the fans being unreasonable too (Dougie springs immediately to mind) so that's a two way street. Some people simply refuse to accept anything, regardless and that breeds the sort of disdain growing right now.
The "five point plan" seems to be as much a fan invention as anything else though. I never felt like it was more than Sheepy's "5 year plan" a rough sketch that should never have been seen, quite frankly as it's open to this sort of stuff.
No one seems to have told me why replacing Murphy now is better than in the summer. I still don't understand that. Especially if Mick is off. |
You've lost me.
How is the "five point plan" a fan invention, when the owner has gone out of his way to detail it in the matchday programme and media? | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:57 - Feb 4 with 1397 views | Superfrans |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 10:59 - Feb 4 by SWGF |
Problem is the perception of short-termism and desperation.
Had we signed Diagouraga permanently (and given he's been available since Monk took over, there's no reason why he couldn't have signed on 1st Jan if he was on our radar) and Huws (who's out of favour at Cardiff), and marketed/communicated it as livening up our pedestrian/stolid central midfield, then fans see it differently.
Having signed Moore, why then sign Samuel (again on loan) from another Champ club?
You can fully understand the fans' frustration given the noises coming out of the club (from both Milne and McCarthy) since Murphy left in regards to spending cash, having a list, etc. Once you do that and you don't land anyone, you're in trouble.
And fans will obviously then link it all together (rightly or wrongly) to MM leaving in the summer and then there's that hanging over the club.
Has just been a shambles but not surprising. |
Signing Moore and Samuels puts us back where we were in terms of number of bodies as before Murphy left - Best was already joining before a Murphy left don't forget. Not saying for a second that we have comparable quality, but numbers.
That said, Best has been hopeless. I've seen more from Moore already than we saw than in 4 months from Best. | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:00 - Feb 4 with 1383 views | Mullet |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:54 - Feb 4 by SWGF |
You've lost me.
How is the "five point plan" a fan invention, when the owner has gone out of his way to detail it in the matchday programme and media? |
That's fair enough I was a bit careless. I meant in terms of how it's perceived.
It's likely to look like ME's "peace in our time moment" | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:02 - Feb 4 with 1378 views | Superfrans |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:48 - Feb 4 by Mullet |
I agree, but perception is also partly responsible for the fans being unreasonable too (Dougie springs immediately to mind) so that's a two way street. Some people simply refuse to accept anything, regardless and that breeds the sort of disdain growing right now.
The "five point plan" seems to be as much a fan invention as anything else though. I never felt like it was more than Sheepy's "5 year plan" a rough sketch that should never have been seen, quite frankly as it's open to this sort of stuff.
No one seems to have told me why replacing Murphy now is better than in the summer. I still don't understand that. Especially if Mick is off. |
This is a decent enough point. While replacing Murphy in January was essential in the context of a play-off campaign, that has been out of our reach since November.
That said, we still have our Championship status to preserve. Let's hope we've done enough to do that. | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:04 - Feb 4 with 1364 views | Superfrans |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:00 - Feb 4 by Mullet |
That's fair enough I was a bit careless. I meant in terms of how it's perceived.
It's likely to look like ME's "peace in our time moment" |
To be fair, it was presented to us all as an illustration that Evans does have a strategy. All we're doing is viewing it in that way.
I don't have a problem with the five point plan per se. The question it has left is what is it intended to achieve - promotion in the next 5 years, 10 years, consolidation in the Championship? | |
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| This on 12:06 - Feb 4 with 1357 views | SWGF |
| This on 11:50 - Feb 4 by Superfrans |
I think you're missing a key point here.
The problem is that the going rate has become financial suicide. We have a turnover of £16m. How are we going to afford 1 player for £10-£12m, which has become he going rate for a quality striker in this division?
there are clubs willing to pay "sh!t or bust" money for players, which has pushed up the going rate.
There are lots of people scrabbling round for answers at the moment (myself included). I'm sure Evans is too. Problem is, I do wonder whether there is one - aside from fundamental reform of football and it's financing. |
We're not in the market for "quality" in this division however we are, surely, in the market for Smith, Bogle, Washington, et al? If our market is £10k punts on non-league reserves, we really are in deep do-do.
I'm not convinced the appetite was there to achieve MM's requested signings. Evans always seems to find himself, at the end of manager's tenures, in needing to improve squads, being unable/unwilling to, and then wasting his cash on short-term fixes. | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:15 - Feb 4 with 1336 views | TLA |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:05 - Feb 4 by pointofblue |
But what does this mean moving forward? What future does this club have? The top end clubs in this league are prepared to spend £10m+ on one player whilst we have not spent that amount (in fees at least) in an entire window for years.
Marcus' five point plan doesn't reveal an end game - what is he hoping to achieve? Promotion? Stabilisation? Relegation and bringing through a young talented squad at a lower level? And if one of the former two does he really thing we can manage it on the current spending level, particularly as he'll have to spend more to bridge the gap between income and outgoings as the seasons go by with no chance of success. |
All of the questions in your post are also in my head!
I can only believe that ME is planning to reduce costs for a sale or is waiting for the right time (hopefully soon!) to launch a new 2-3 year funded approach to promotion. The winter window activity suggests either is possible.
With FFP allowing 39 million loss over 3 years, ME might be trying to get close to break even to enable that over the next 3 years, however, that would only be like his investment in his first 3 years, which didn't improve us at all. Maybe he's also holding back to see if a few teams who have invested heavily and don't get promoted start to struggle, lessening the competition if he does invest.
If he's not planning to invest or sell, it seems like relegation might be inevitable in the next few years, which is why I'm trying to prepare for a time when we don't expect to finish in the top 6.
Since my first game in 1983, we've been pretty much a top 30 side in England. That might change to a top 40-50 side, which might mean slipping out of this league.
The next couple of years feel really important and I have no idea what ME is planning: his plan didn't outline anything clear-cut. |  | | |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:24 - Feb 4 with 1321 views | taximan |
in terms of fishing for uppies, great work !!!
incredible | | | |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:29 - Feb 4 with 1307 views | Benters |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 11:54 - Feb 4 by SWGF |
You've lost me.
How is the "five point plan" a fan invention, when the owner has gone out of his way to detail it in the matchday programme and media? |
Ian Milne said it was a 3 point plan Marcus Evans said it was a 5 point plan .
Mullet cant help himself .
Im out. | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:30 - Feb 4 with 1307 views | ClausThomsen |
This is our first match with our 2nd half ut season squad sorted. The 1st half's been a disaster, as was Tuesday but with Toums missing and the Chambers stuff off the field it's understandable that it was a difficult night.
I just think he has to start Moore today (preferably with McGoldrick) - he's a fresh face and we need that focal point. If he puts in 100% and wins a few headers he'll go down well, and it means we can use Pitman perfectly - as a supersub.
I'm half-convinced Mick lost the dressing room with his team selection at Lincoln (the final straw for me but unfortunately not ME) and if you've lost it 4 years in, you aren't going to get it back. He needs a win more than ever before - I hope if we do win he's gracious. He's in no position to warrant arrogance (or employment tbf).
So yeah, a win would be a real remedy. The fresh face of Adrian Paz helped us beat Man United in one of our worst seasons, hopefully the fresh faces brought in during the window can lift us to beat the almighty Reading. | | | |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:31 - Feb 4 with 1305 views | Benters |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:24 - Feb 4 by taximan |
in terms of fishing for uppies, great work !!!
incredible |
Here have one... it feels so good .. | |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:51 - Feb 4 with 1281 views | taximan |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 12:31 - Feb 4 by Benters |
Here have one... it feels so good .. |
thank you
have one back | | | |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 13:14 - Feb 4 with 1247 views | Luk38644 |
'Spence amazes me that he couldn't get a deal. He looks handy at this level. I can only assume he was one who took an ME style approach to the market and value this summer. Or was very unlucky. '
Couldn't disagree more. He looks very average at this level and isn't exactly a massive improvement on Emmanuel who is 7 years younger. Spence got torn to bits on Tuesday night by a competent winger and he looked lost at wing-back, the very position Mick brought him in to play. |  | | |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 14:27 - Feb 4 with 1195 views | thorpedo |
Spence is awful, I'm afraid - we'd have been better off signing Louis Spence. I don't like to write off a player this early and would love to be proved wrong, but I can't see it. |  |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 14:28 - Feb 4 with 1193 views | Vic |
You might be right, Mullers, and I truly hope you are. However, I still feel that we really should have had a perm replacement for Murph all lined up with the deal just needing to be signed as the window opened. I don't have a problem with them selling him when they did, and the lack of replacement in August. I'm sure MM thought he could manage until Jan and then, having looked around, would get someone proven in as a replacement. That he didn't/couldn't must be incredibly frustrating for him and I think his comments since show that he feels let down by ME.
For this reason I think MM will go in the summer.
Now, If you're right in you post then he'll leave a useful squad for a new manager to take over. My fear is who we'll get that can do as well as Mick in the present budget, and be able to build on what is here. In two years we'll be back in the same or worse place.
Time will tell, but I think we'll rue the day we ran MM out of the club. |  |
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| This "terrible window" may not be so on 14:30 - Feb 4 with 1186 views | Benters |
| This "terrible window" may not be so on 13:14 - Feb 4 by Luk38644 |
'Spence amazes me that he couldn't get a deal. He looks handy at this level. I can only assume he was one who took an ME style approach to the market and value this summer. Or was very unlucky. '
Couldn't disagree more. He looks very average at this level and isn't exactly a massive improvement on Emmanuel who is 7 years younger. Spence got torn to bits on Tuesday night by a competent winger and he looked lost at wing-back, the very position Mick brought him in to play. |
Very honest Luke | |
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