| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? 07:55 - May 24 with 17611 views | Herbivore |
All of the terrorist attacks perpetrated in the UK this century have been carried out by people born and raised here. We really need to start asking some hard questions about why it is that people born and raised in the UK are drawn towards killing their fellow citizens in large numbers. It's too easy to just blame religion, there are hundreds of thousands (possibly over a million?) of UK citizens of the Muslim faith who would never consider taking another life. We can't look for simplistic answers anymore, this is a complex problem and unless we tackle the underlying causes of young Brits being susceptible to radical ideas we will never make any progress. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:49 - May 24 with 2073 views | Steve_M |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:33 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
with regards to military intervention, I always return to the words of the late Jo Cox and Andrew Mitchel in the their joint plan for Syria:
"Some may think that a military component has no place in an ethical response to Syria. We completely disagree. It is not ethical to wish away the barrel bombs from the Syrian government when you have the capacity to stop them. The deaths and fear generated by these indiscriminate air attacks are the main drivers of the refugee crisis in Europe. Nor is it ethical to watch when villages are overrun by Isis fighters who make sex slaves of children and slaughter their fellow Muslims, when we have the capability to hold them back" |
See also Kosovo. Sometimes military intervention is both right and effective.
The trite desire to simplistically blame Western foreign policy for Islamist terrorism is no longer a remotely coherent explanation for what we are currently facing. It is a factor but it is also becoming increasingly apparent that it is not the only one, and probably not even that important a motivation in many cases. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:49 - May 24 with 2072 views | DanTheMan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:47 - May 24 by taximan |
allah is their version of god
its all a load of b0ll0x
with the advancement of science, i would have thought everyone would know that the idea of a god, whichever version, is a load of sh1te |
It's not their version, Christian "God" and Islam's "Allah" are the exact same thing with a different name. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:49 - May 24 with 2071 views | Bluesquid |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:06 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
I posted this after the Paris attacks. It's seems just as relevant this morning. It was with regards to whether a military solution in its own would end the attacks, which I don't believe it would
Indeed it's a complex situation but ISIS must be militarily defeated in the territories it currently holds. If not they will expand in the Middle East bringing more suffering and misery to the population of the areas it has invaded.
The city of Sinjar was liberated days ago by Kurdish forces. Most of the Yazidi women and girls have been sold for slavery. Young boys indoctrinated and conscripted as part of their army of hate.
But it can't end with bombing them out of existence. The west then has to do more to rebuild these countries in the same way we did with Germany after the Second World War. America. China and to a lesser extent Russia and the EU have the financial resources to do this. To ensure that economic circumstances are let people live a life where they see no hope or future and makes them an easy target for radicalisation.
And we can all play a part in this country in creating circumstances where young Muslim men do not feel disenfranchised and alienated. Our press and political leaders have to stop demonising the majority of normal decent law abiding Muslims in this country. We need more role models in positions of authority that represent the diverse make up of our society. We need Muslims to feel that they are part of this country.
But that works both ways. Too often, members of the Muslim community cut themselves off from mainstream society. They need to do more to integrate
You may at least understand why the older generation cling so tightly to the dogma of their religion and view some western ways as decadent. But in the 21st century it is bizarre that the most radical and fanatical extremists are young people.
These are the people we have to give some sort of hope to. Find a way to make them feel British first and their religion something that is far less important to their lives than it is now. We seem to have made a good job of that situation with Christisnity in this country.
That's my two bob's worth anyway. |
Suffering and misery caused by the epansion of ISIS, eh?
Now, just who do you think played their part in all of that?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/libya-david-cameron-isis-islamic-s |  | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:50 - May 24 with 2068 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:47 - May 24 by taximan |
allah is their version of god
its all a load of b0ll0x
with the advancement of science, i would have thought everyone would know that the idea of a god, whichever version, is a load of sh1te |
With the easy availability of books for the past couple of centuries, not to mention facts now online, I would have thought people would be less ignorant. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:50 - May 24 with 2063 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:48 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
You're showing the sort of narrow attitude that is part of the problem more than the solution.
We are a country where cultures and faiths are accepted and protected by law. What do you think you'll achieve by trying to force your ideas on people? |
maybe my ideas will prevent more innocents getting blown to pieces
no mosques
no radicals
no problem | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:51 - May 24 with 2063 views | Lord_Lucan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:34 - May 24 by taximan |
knock the lot of them down
if they want to pray to a god, then in this country you pray to our god
if they want to pray to their god
then maybe they should live in a country where islam is preached
i'm an atheist so imo its all b0ll0x |
I have a strange hunch that this course of action could possibly inflame things. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:52 - May 24 with 2048 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:51 - May 24 by Lord_Lucan |
I have a strange hunch that this course of action could possibly inflame things. |
initially it would
it would lead to a peaceful uk in the long term | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:53 - May 24 with 2041 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:50 - May 24 by taximan |
maybe my ideas will prevent more innocents getting blown to pieces
no mosques
no radicals
no problem |
You think banning a religion will prevent radicalization!!!???
Well done. I can't think of a more likely way to guarantee it. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:55 - May 24 with 2024 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:50 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
With the easy availability of books for the past couple of centuries, not to mention facts now online, I would have thought people would be less ignorant. |
but they are not
they still believe the world was created by a god
its incredible isn't it ?
(i assume the ignorant line was directed at me) | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:55 - May 24 with 2022 views | artsbossbeard |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:53 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
You think banning a religion will prevent radicalization!!!???
Well done. I can't think of a more likely way to guarantee it. |
Ex-Mosque users could wear a little badge on their arm, so they could be easily spotted. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 with 2016 views | Steve_M |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:53 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
You think banning a religion will prevent radicalization!!!???
Well done. I can't think of a more likely way to guarantee it. |
I don't know, look how peaceful the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries were after Henry VIII's break with Rome. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 with 2014 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:53 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
You think banning a religion will prevent radicalization!!!???
Well done. I can't think of a more likely way to guarantee it. |
so what is your solution oh wise one ? | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 with 2012 views | Swailsey |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:55 - May 24 by artsbossbeard |
Ex-Mosque users could wear a little badge on their arm, so they could be easily spotted. |
That makes sense. Ideally things would be in black and white too. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 with 1999 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:45 - May 24 by Clapham_Junction |
I think moving to an entirely secular school system has a role to play. Faith schools create de facto segregation amongst kids - they should all grow up together.
It's very sad that the school system in Northern Ireland is still so segregated. |
And in Scotland.
Not far from me the local catholic and Protestant schools merged. Which sounds great.
However, although it's the same building the kids are segregated and it has two names. The kids come through separate entrances. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:58 - May 24 with 1999 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
And in Scotland.
Not far from me the local catholic and Protestant schools merged. Which sounds great.
However, although it's the same building the kids are segregated and it has two names. The kids come through separate entrances. |
seriously ?
how can religion still have such an influence ?
staggering | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:07 - May 24 with 1979 views | homer_123 |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:49 - May 24 by Steve_M |
See also Kosovo. Sometimes military intervention is both right and effective.
The trite desire to simplistically blame Western foreign policy for Islamist terrorism is no longer a remotely coherent explanation for what we are currently facing. It is a factor but it is also becoming increasingly apparent that it is not the only one, and probably not even that important a motivation in many cases. |
Military intervention isn't really the issue though is it.
The situation is that we (as a Country) have a long and somewhat chequered history of involving ourselves in others business and countries. The outcome of that has consequences that are still playing out today.
Military intervention is sometimes needed but there is a cost to that, again, for some us intervening will be seen as a positive, for others not so and therefore you build both support and hatred, often in equal measure as a result.
I'm not saying that we should never intervene more that we have to be prepared for the consequences of doing so, rightly or wrongly.
Finally, we have a slight tendency to pick and choose our interventions......Syria...we are in there.....whereas the Ukraine and the annexed Crimea we are not, springs to mind..... |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:07 - May 24 with 1979 views | artsbossbeard |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:45 - May 24 by Clapham_Junction |
I think moving to an entirely secular school system has a role to play. Faith schools create de facto segregation amongst kids - they should all grow up together.
It's very sad that the school system in Northern Ireland is still so segregated. |
I was over for a few days in our Belfast office recently and we organised a meal out on one of the nights.
I was with the NI version of me and I asked him if was coming out with us and he replied that he was unable to make it as he had some serious Marching Band practice planned.
The local rag even has a "Marching News" page.
All very weird for this confirmed atheist. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:07 - May 24 with 1976 views | Radlett_blue |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:49 - May 24 by Steve_M |
See also Kosovo. Sometimes military intervention is both right and effective.
The trite desire to simplistically blame Western foreign policy for Islamist terrorism is no longer a remotely coherent explanation for what we are currently facing. It is a factor but it is also becoming increasingly apparent that it is not the only one, and probably not even that important a motivation in many cases. |
Many multiple killers world-wide are disaffected young men, with religion not necessarily being a large factor. But it does appear that many Islamist terrorists have been radicalised by Islamist extremists in this country & trained overseas by branches of IS or Al-Queda. While Western intervention in the Middle East has not been the only factor, it has produced several failed states - Iraq, Libya & Syria. This has displaced a large number of people, primarily young men. It is likely that a good number of them will find life hard in the West, become disaffected & some may well become terrorists.
No, I don't have a solution to either issue. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:11 - May 24 with 1967 views | artsbossbeard |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
And in Scotland.
Not far from me the local catholic and Protestant schools merged. Which sounds great.
However, although it's the same building the kids are segregated and it has two names. The kids come through separate entrances. |
My Glaswegian mate crossed the divide and married a Catholic girl. We went up one Christmas/New Year and were sat at theirs when some of her relatives turned up.
"Alright, Xxxxx, you Orange Ba5tard?" was the general greeting from all to include kids. All light hearted but,of course, in-grained over years. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:18 - May 24 with 1943 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:56 - May 24 by taximan |
so what is your solution oh wise one ? |
Engaging with people. Showing tolerance and empathy. Not trying to impose a narrow view of culture on others.
We've got a lot of work to do ourselves to make the UK a better country before we start demanding stuff from minorities. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:21 - May 24 with 1934 views | Bluesquid |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 08:33 - May 24 by GlasgowBlue |
with regards to military intervention, I always return to the words of the late Jo Cox and Andrew Mitchel in the their joint plan for Syria:
"Some may think that a military component has no place in an ethical response to Syria. We completely disagree. It is not ethical to wish away the barrel bombs from the Syrian government when you have the capacity to stop them. The deaths and fear generated by these indiscriminate air attacks are the main drivers of the refugee crisis in Europe. Nor is it ethical to watch when villages are overrun by Isis fighters who make sex slaves of children and slaughter their fellow Muslims, when we have the capability to hold them back" |
Don't take your eyes off the ball folks.
That's what it's all about - Syria and later Iran.
A disgusting attack by ISIS on the UK and a thread about Brits killing Brits and you manage to shoehorn in military action against Assad.
Which is what it's all about of course.
Syria and Russia have been fighting ISIS and jihadi extremists for years, the same type of jihadi extremists that kill civilians in European cities.
The West with it's fight against ISIS has got it's reason to be in Syria and build further bases in order to Balkanize the country for our good buddies in the ME. [Post edited 24 May 2017 9:25]
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:22 - May 24 with 1931 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:18 - May 24 by Darth_Koont |
Engaging with people. Showing tolerance and empathy. Not trying to impose a narrow view of culture on others.
We've got a lot of work to do ourselves to make the UK a better country before we start demanding stuff from minorities. |
i'm guessing your views would change if it was your children or wife killed in a terrorist attack ? (presuming you have both) | | | |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:22 - May 24 with 1943 views | CaptainObvious |
i only think their birthplace is relevant for liberals to point score. some of them seem desperate for a white christian to carry out an atrocity. |  |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:26 - May 24 with 1916 views | Darth_Koont |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:22 - May 24 by CaptainObvious |
i only think their birthplace is relevant for liberals to point score. some of them seem desperate for a white christian to carry out an atrocity. |
That's a bit of an @rsehole comment, mate.
There are a number of examples already anyway. And the issue is more about the fact that these terrorists are born and bred here - which suggests to me that we need to take as much responsibility as we can as a society. Dropping bombs in the Middle East isn't addressing that. | |
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| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:27 - May 24 with 1903 views | taximan |
| How do we stop Brits killing Brits? on 09:22 - May 24 by CaptainObvious |
i only think their birthplace is relevant for liberals to point score. some of them seem desperate for a white christian to carry out an atrocity. |
exactly | | | |
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