| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 10:35 - Jun 12 with 5756 views | factual_blue |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 09:53 - Jun 12 by manchego |
Now that people are slowly getting a clue about what brexit means, do you think we could have a referendum on it ? |
The deal should be approved by a referendum with a two-thirds majority required. |  |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 11:07 - Jun 12 with 5726 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 10:35 - Jun 12 by factual_blue |
The deal should be approved by a referendum with a two-thirds majority required. |
With the alternative being what? Crash-out with no deal, or default back to stay in?
In principle the choice should default to the status quo, but I just don't see it happening, even though EU might allow it. Politically it would be toxic for whichever government proposed it.
Total omnishambles. |  | | |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 11:29 - Jun 12 with 5693 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 10:34 - Jun 12 by caught-in-limbo |
It was a stupid decision to rest Brexit on a majority vote.
Two Tory politicians cut from the same cloth (Cameron and Johnson) headed opposing campaigns and the media turned the whole charade into a debate largely about immigration.
Britain's media and particularly the BBC are culpable. They were largely mouthpieces for the politicians many of us have lost faith in.
There was no intelligent investigative journalism exposing Brexit for the cheap scam it was or any real effort to understand the consequences of a Brexit vote.
I don't blame people for voting the way they did. Most people are too busy to independently analyse the intricacies of extracating a country from a body like the EU. They rely on (and indeed should rely on) a competent, impartial national broadcaster. British people pay handsomely for such a service but were let down.
I'm dismayed that so many people continue to rely on the BBC for quality investigative journalism. Perhaps the rise in popularity for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party is a sign that maybe things are changing for the better. |
setting aside your obsessive hatred of the bbc, people don't always vote on the basis of intricacies. sometimes they go with a gut feeling, or because they're angry, or because they feel they're being taken for granted. a lot of the brexit vote was a protest against austerity and stagnation and a vote against the status quo. it was part of the political swing of the credit crunch.
when you say "I don't blame people for voting the way they did. Most people are too busy to independently analyse the intricacies of extracting a country from a body like the EU." didn't you post at the time that if you had had a vote you would have voted for brexit?? but you now say brexit was a "cheap scam ". ?? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 12:43 - Jun 12 with 5658 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 10:34 - Jun 12 by caught-in-limbo |
It was a stupid decision to rest Brexit on a majority vote.
Two Tory politicians cut from the same cloth (Cameron and Johnson) headed opposing campaigns and the media turned the whole charade into a debate largely about immigration.
Britain's media and particularly the BBC are culpable. They were largely mouthpieces for the politicians many of us have lost faith in.
There was no intelligent investigative journalism exposing Brexit for the cheap scam it was or any real effort to understand the consequences of a Brexit vote.
I don't blame people for voting the way they did. Most people are too busy to independently analyse the intricacies of extracating a country from a body like the EU. They rely on (and indeed should rely on) a competent, impartial national broadcaster. British people pay handsomely for such a service but were let down.
I'm dismayed that so many people continue to rely on the BBC for quality investigative journalism. Perhaps the rise in popularity for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party is a sign that maybe things are changing for the better. |
"There was no intelligent investigative journalism exposing Brexit for the cheap scam it was or any real effort to understand the consequences of a Brexit vote."
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/377932/leave-is-not-just-for-xenophobic-thickos/#0 | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 12:55 - Jun 12 with 5642 views | clive_baker |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 09:57 - Jun 12 by StokieBlue |
Some good analysis of the Brexit points in that article. It's been a total screw-up. May has been awful, continues to be awful and will be awful until she is pushed out.
"But what do you do when your crowd-pleasing applause lines have to become public policy? "
Surely this could have been applied to Corbyn's manifesto as well as May's nonsense one-liners?
SB |
Farage was rightly ridiculed for feeding the country with unsubstantiated bullsh1t promises last year in an attempt to win votes, but when Corbyn does it it's fair game apparently. |  |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 14:44 - Jun 12 with 5601 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 12:43 - Jun 12 by lowhouseblue |
"There was no intelligent investigative journalism exposing Brexit for the cheap scam it was or any real effort to understand the consequences of a Brexit vote."
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/377932/leave-is-not-just-for-xenophobic-thickos/#0 |
You're right, if I could have voted, I would have voted "leave". I don't live in the UK and for the long term future of Spain I want the end of the EU. I believe the EU will have problems holding itself together if Britain is ever to leave. So I would have done my part to make that happen despite the complications it would have presented me personally.
If I was living in the UK, I would have voted remain.
Despite what the average Britain has historically been lead to believe, countries like Britain do very well from being an EU member. Rather belatedly, I think the average Brit is being to understand that they are not the selfless benefactors they thought they were.
It WAS a cheap scam though. Cameron won an election of the back of promising a referendum, and now it appears, officially at least, the whole sorry affair has bitten the Conservatives on the aaaaas.
Posting links to what I have said previously is fine. My position has not changed, and my views are not contradictory. Try again.
EDIT: just checked back for years in the future- obviously should say:
"If I was living in the UK, I would have voted leave". [Post edited 21 Sep 2018 16:40]
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 15:02 - Jun 12 with 5587 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 11:29 - Jun 12 by lowhouseblue |
setting aside your obsessive hatred of the bbc, people don't always vote on the basis of intricacies. sometimes they go with a gut feeling, or because they're angry, or because they feel they're being taken for granted. a lot of the brexit vote was a protest against austerity and stagnation and a vote against the status quo. it was part of the political swing of the credit crunch.
when you say "I don't blame people for voting the way they did. Most people are too busy to independently analyse the intricacies of extracting a country from a body like the EU." didn't you post at the time that if you had had a vote you would have voted for brexit?? but you now say brexit was a "cheap scam ". ?? |
"people don't always vote on the basis of intricacies. sometimes they go with a gut feeling, or because they're angry, or because they feel they're being taken for granted. a lot of the brexit vote was a protest against austerity and stagnation and a vote against the status quo. it was part of the political swing of the credit crunch."
Which is the point I was making. The media promoted gut feeling and anger at the expense of the true consequences of Brexit. Giving the electorate more information as opposed to stirring anger and promoting gut feeling would likely have lead to a very different result.
Your argument seems to be that the people want to vote in an ill-informed reactionary way, have their reasoning affected by fear and anger and that the BBC gave them exactly what they wanted. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 15:34 - Jun 12 with 5566 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 14:44 - Jun 12 by caught-in-limbo |
You're right, if I could have voted, I would have voted "leave". I don't live in the UK and for the long term future of Spain I want the end of the EU. I believe the EU will have problems holding itself together if Britain is ever to leave. So I would have done my part to make that happen despite the complications it would have presented me personally.
If I was living in the UK, I would have voted remain.
Despite what the average Britain has historically been lead to believe, countries like Britain do very well from being an EU member. Rather belatedly, I think the average Brit is being to understand that they are not the selfless benefactors they thought they were.
It WAS a cheap scam though. Cameron won an election of the back of promising a referendum, and now it appears, officially at least, the whole sorry affair has bitten the Conservatives on the aaaaas.
Posting links to what I have said previously is fine. My position has not changed, and my views are not contradictory. Try again.
EDIT: just checked back for years in the future- obviously should say:
"If I was living in the UK, I would have voted leave". [Post edited 21 Sep 2018 16:40]
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so it was a cheap scam that you supported. I can't recall you saying at the time that your support for brexit was conditional. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 16:26 - Jun 12 with 5548 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 15:34 - Jun 12 by lowhouseblue |
so it was a cheap scam that you supported. I can't recall you saying at the time that your support for brexit was conditional. |
I think it was enough to say how I would have voted had I been able to. Now you expect me to have told you how I would have voted if I'd been able to and been living in a different country. Perhaps I should also have told you how I would have voted if I'd been able to, living in England, and with a pension and with no kids.
You've had a bad month and you're grasping at anything and everything.
Get real. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 18:13 - Jun 12 with 5524 views | feelingblue |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 11:07 - Jun 12 by Freddies_Ears |
With the alternative being what? Crash-out with no deal, or default back to stay in?
In principle the choice should default to the status quo, but I just don't see it happening, even though EU might allow it. Politically it would be toxic for whichever government proposed it.
Total omnishambles. |
Take an EEA deal, which I am sure we will be offered. Preferably the Norway deal. It would be much better to remain in the EU, but I guess that would be unacceptable, in our stupid FPTP electoral system. |  | | |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:06 - Jun 12 with 5506 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 16:26 - Jun 12 by caught-in-limbo |
I think it was enough to say how I would have voted had I been able to. Now you expect me to have told you how I would have voted if I'd been able to and been living in a different country. Perhaps I should also have told you how I would have voted if I'd been able to, living in England, and with a pension and with no kids.
You've had a bad month and you're grasping at anything and everything.
Get real. |
it's ok, you've changed your mind. these things happen. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:15 - Jun 12 with 5501 views | blue_oyster |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 10:34 - Jun 12 by caught-in-limbo |
It was a stupid decision to rest Brexit on a majority vote.
Two Tory politicians cut from the same cloth (Cameron and Johnson) headed opposing campaigns and the media turned the whole charade into a debate largely about immigration.
Britain's media and particularly the BBC are culpable. They were largely mouthpieces for the politicians many of us have lost faith in.
There was no intelligent investigative journalism exposing Brexit for the cheap scam it was or any real effort to understand the consequences of a Brexit vote.
I don't blame people for voting the way they did. Most people are too busy to independently analyse the intricacies of extracating a country from a body like the EU. They rely on (and indeed should rely on) a competent, impartial national broadcaster. British people pay handsomely for such a service but were let down.
I'm dismayed that so many people continue to rely on the BBC for quality investigative journalism. Perhaps the rise in popularity for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour party is a sign that maybe things are changing for the better. |
Immigration is a massive issue, and the referendum result reflected this. You don't accept the result because you don't like it, and wrongly blame the media. The result was contrary to what the media portrayed, and was therefore a "surprise" when it happened. But the majority of people weren't "surprised". They voted for it. |  |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:45 - Jun 12 with 5480 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:15 - Jun 12 by blue_oyster |
Immigration is a massive issue, and the referendum result reflected this. You don't accept the result because you don't like it, and wrongly blame the media. The result was contrary to what the media portrayed, and was therefore a "surprise" when it happened. But the majority of people weren't "surprised". They voted for it. |
Which part of "if I had been able to vote, I would have voted leave" are you struggling with exactly¿ [Post edited 12 Jun 2017 19:46]
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:48 - Jun 12 with 5474 views | vapour_trail |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:15 - Jun 12 by blue_oyster |
Immigration is a massive issue, and the referendum result reflected this. You don't accept the result because you don't like it, and wrongly blame the media. The result was contrary to what the media portrayed, and was therefore a "surprise" when it happened. But the majority of people weren't "surprised". They voted for it. |
The result was contrary to what the media portrayed?
Erm, which bit of the media please, because I make that complete bolIocks. |  |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:52 - Jun 12 with 5466 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:06 - Jun 12 by lowhouseblue |
it's ok, you've changed your mind. these things happen. |
But I haven't. Where have I said I have.
You can't just make up opinions for me to fit the sort of person you want me to be. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:55 - Jun 12 with 5462 views | blue_oyster |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:52 - Jun 12 by caught-in-limbo |
But I haven't. Where have I said I have.
You can't just make up opinions for me to fit the sort of person you want me to be. |
Your own words betray you. You're no better than the lying politicians. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:56 - Jun 12 with 5460 views | blue_oyster |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:48 - Jun 12 by vapour_trail |
The result was contrary to what the media portrayed?
Erm, which bit of the media please, because I make that complete bolIocks. |
Oh I see, it wasn't a surprise then. Righto. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:00 - Jun 12 with 5455 views | vapour_trail |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:56 - Jun 12 by blue_oyster |
Oh I see, it wasn't a surprise then. Righto. |
The majority of the print media campaigned for leave. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:02 - Jun 12 with 5452 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:55 - Jun 12 by blue_oyster |
Your own words betray you. You're no better than the lying politicians. |
Which words? | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:18 - Jun 12 with 5432 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 19:52 - Jun 12 by caught-in-limbo |
But I haven't. Where have I said I have.
You can't just make up opinions for me to fit the sort of person you want me to be. |
at the time your posts were strongly pro brexit. i've linked one very clear example - i can't be bothered to look for more. now you say brexit is a cheap scam. i've not made up opinions for you - i've just quoted two of your contradictory opinions. [Post edited 12 Jun 2017 20:22]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:24 - Jun 12 with 5424 views | blue_oyster |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:00 - Jun 12 by vapour_trail |
The majority of the print media campaigned for leave. |
The Times, Mail on Sunday, Guardian, Mirror, Independent, Financial Times, Observer all remain, and broadcast media almost completely remain. Tellingly nearly all opinion polls, which are 'weighted', showed remain on top. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:28 - Jun 12 with 5419 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:18 - Jun 12 by lowhouseblue |
at the time your posts were strongly pro brexit. i've linked one very clear example - i can't be bothered to look for more. now you say brexit is a cheap scam. i've not made up opinions for you - i've just quoted two of your contradictory opinions. [Post edited 12 Jun 2017 20:22]
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My posts were not so much strongly pro Brexit, rather strongly pro the break up of the EU which has Spain over a barrel. I saw Britain leaving the EU as a means to the whole thing collapsing. I still stand by that.
On top of that, I have always said that the whole Brexit affair was a ridiculous - I explained that at the time giving numerous and repeated reasons, and it is for that reason why I've maintained for over a year now that it cannot happen, and won't happen.
I understand that for the neanderthals out there such views are not congruent, but I've clearly stated these two views from the beginning and the non-neanderthals understand it. | |
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| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:28 - Jun 12 with 5417 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Brilliant summary of recent events in the UK on 20:24 - Jun 12 by blue_oyster |
The Times, Mail on Sunday, Guardian, Mirror, Independent, Financial Times, Observer all remain, and broadcast media almost completely remain. Tellingly nearly all opinion polls, which are 'weighted', showed remain on top. |
Which words? | |
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