| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? 23:16 - May 21 with 4583 views | Yaffle |
TLDR — Don’t discount the idea of Lampard as manager, his inexperience may not necessarily be as much of an issue as you fear.
I’ve read a number of posts discounting out of hand Frank Lampard as our next manager, purely on the basis of a lack of management experience, which I find quite odd. If, as it appears, the shortlist of 3 is Ross, Lampard and Hurst I think each offers something unique and in every case, I would be happy to see them take the helm and be given a go to move us forward.
What is clear is that we’ve tried the experienced manager with a track record of getting clubs promoted to the Premiership route, without success. The last 3 managers had 5 promotions between them and a single payoff semi is all we had to cheer about (that and not getting relegated the year McCarthy joined). The idea of going down the tried and tested, battle-hardened championship manager route again does not seem particularly appealing.
Of the potential shortlist of 3, some perspective on the other 2 candidates is needed.
Jack Ross has 114 games in management. Of those 34 were in charge of semi-professional Alloa Athletic with a 38% win ratio. His spell with St. Mirren, however, is undoubtedly impressive. Furthermore, he seems like a ‘good fit’ for Ipswich, whatever that means. I’ve seen it mentioned a few times and I feel it too, however, I’m not sure quite where the frenetic Ross support is really grounded in given his relative lack of overall experience or time managing at this level.
Paul Hurst has 10 years’ experience managing through the lower leagues with over 500 games in management. He has done well at Shrewsbury and it will be interesting to see what he does if they win the play-offs. I get the impression he may be less media-friendly than the other 2. That said its difficult to argue with a win ratio over 50% across 500 games. The question for me is why hasn't it happened for him before now?
Lampard’s (who will be 40 next month) credentials as a player speak for themselves. However, it wasn’t until I wrote them down that I was struck by what an incredible career he has had. 913 club games with 274 goals to his name. 106 (29 goals) England caps and an incredible list of honours over the years. Most relevant to Towns interest perhaps is that he has played under a huge variety of managers, experiencing their different styles, influences, tactics and man management over the course of his career. His bosses have included, Claudio Ranieri, Jose Mourinho, Luiz Felipe Scolari, Guus Hiddink, Carlo Ancelotti, Andre Villas-Boas and Rafael BenÃtez. With England, he would have played under Sven Goran Erikson, Steve McLaren, Fabio Capello and Roy Hodgson. It is difficult to deny that that is an impressive list to have worked with. Furthermore, this is unlikely to have been wasted on Lampard. His intelligence is well documented, his IQ is rumoured to be well over 150. He is media friendly, polished, driven and a proven winner, he could really raise the profile of our club without it becoming a media circus and he is very connected and respected across the game. He’s even got an Uncle ‘Arry! I don’t accept that he has nothing to lose. He is fiercely competitive and will want to maintain that winning mentality, especially when the focus will be purely on him. I think the case for Lampard is very strong and should not be discounted just because he’s got no management experience. I think the experience and credentials he does have stands alone among all the candidates (all 100 of them if Sky Sports are to be believed!) and if it isn’t at Ipswich, we will certainly get to see at some point in the future what kind of manager he will be.
But what about this lack of management experience issue? I looked at other very good/world class players who have turned their hand to management? There are plenty of examples of young players taking up management in their late 30’s early 40’s, in many cases taking on roles at huge clubs or even nations and going on to be incredibly successful. The following list makes the point pretty well.
Antonio Conte —36 with Arezo and then Bari
Didier Deschamps —33 with Monaco
Bobby Robson — 35 with Fulham and then Town year later.
Fabio Capello — 41 with Milan
Jupp Heynckes — 34 with Borussia Mönchengladbach
Kenny Dalglish — 34 with Liverpool
Diego Simeone — 36 Racing Club
Brian Clough — 30 Hartlepool
Mario Zagallo — 35 Botatogo and Brazil at 36
Carlo Ancelotti — 36 Reggiana and Parma at 37
Franz Beckenbauer — 39 West Germany
Pep Guardiola — 36 Bara B, 37 Barcelona
Johan Cruyff — 38 Ajax
Jock Stein — 38 Dunfermline
Fran Rijkaard — 36 Holland
Ernst Happel — 37 Ado Den Haag
Miguel Munoz — 37 Real Madrid
Vincent Del Bosque — 37 Castilla
Giovanni Trapattoni — 35 AC Milan
…and yes I accept there are some that have made a complete hash of it too. However, the higher up the footballing tree you go, the less examples there are of total failures in management.
So, in summary, someone is going to give Lampard a shot at management and there are plenty of reasons to believe that he could be a huge success. I for one would welcome him to Ipswich.
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 23:33 - May 21 with 3869 views | sparks |
In what way do you think playing experience automatically translates to management skill? |  |
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(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 23:38 - May 21 with 3851 views | Yaffle |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 23:33 - May 21 by sparks |
In what way do you think playing experience automatically translates to management skill? |
Err, I didn’t and I don’t. I said he has the credentials as a player and as an individual and there are lots of examples of top players becoming top managers, therefore he should not be discounted as a candidate.
So, in what way do you think that a lack of management experience automatically translates to a lack of management ability? | | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 23:57 - May 21 with 3817 views | BlueBadger |
Lampard/Ipswich a perfect fit for me by BlueBadger 20 May 2018 17:29There's a number of reasons NOT to appoint Lampard. He's no experience, no qualifications, would bring the inevitable media circus and there's alway the risk of his crooked uncle sticking his beak in.
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 00:02 - May 22 with 3809 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 23:57 - May 21 by BlueBadger |
Lampard/Ipswich a perfect fit for me by BlueBadger 20 May 2018 17:29There's a number of reasons NOT to appoint Lampard. He's no experience, no qualifications, would bring the inevitable media circus and there's alway the risk of his crooked uncle sticking his beak in.
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Not saying that I'm keen of Lampard but Magilton had no qualifications nor experience. |  | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 00:14 - May 22 with 3799 views | Yaffle |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 23:57 - May 21 by BlueBadger |
Lampard/Ipswich a perfect fit for me by BlueBadger 20 May 2018 17:29There's a number of reasons NOT to appoint Lampard. He's no experience, no qualifications, would bring the inevitable media circus and there's alway the risk of his crooked uncle sticking his beak in.
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Sorry to startle you with facts but Lampard has his UEFA A badge and is studying for his Pro. As asked above, does lack of experience automatically equal lack of ability or lack of success? The examples above would suggest not. | | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:15 - May 22 with 3599 views | Herbivore |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 00:14 - May 22 by Yaffle |
Sorry to startle you with facts but Lampard has his UEFA A badge and is studying for his Pro. As asked above, does lack of experience automatically equal lack of ability or lack of success? The examples above would suggest not. |
If you only include examples where it has worked then of course it's going to look like potentially a good idea. I can very quickly offer you Shearer, Ince and Neville as successful England players from a similar era who quickly found out they weren't up to much as managers. There's literally dozens more ex players who have failed at the first hurdle as managers. |  |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:38 - May 22 with 3540 views | gordon |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:15 - May 22 by Herbivore |
If you only include examples where it has worked then of course it's going to look like potentially a good idea. I can very quickly offer you Shearer, Ince and Neville as successful England players from a similar era who quickly found out they weren't up to much as managers. There's literally dozens more ex players who have failed at the first hurdle as managers. |
A handful of cherry-picked examples from the last 50 years of world football is not particularly convincing.
More recently, an example like Teddy Sheringham would seem much more relevant (than the case of Mario Zagalo FGS). Sheringham comes into a club with his years of top playing experience, but finds it isn't that relevant at a lower level, struggles, and doesn't even manage to complete a year in charge. [Post edited 22 May 2018 7:44]
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:41 - May 22 with 3527 views | Herbivore |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:38 - May 22 by gordon |
A handful of cherry-picked examples from the last 50 years of world football is not particularly convincing.
More recently, an example like Teddy Sheringham would seem much more relevant (than the case of Mario Zagalo FGS). Sheringham comes into a club with his years of top playing experience, but finds it isn't that relevant at a lower level, struggles, and doesn't even manage to complete a year in charge. [Post edited 22 May 2018 7:44]
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Good shout. Sheringham was also known to be an intelligent player, something we keep hearing about Lampard too. | |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:44 - May 22 with 3518 views | gordon |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 23:38 - May 21 by Yaffle |
Err, I didn’t and I don’t. I said he has the credentials as a player and as an individual and there are lots of examples of top players becoming top managers, therefore he should not be discounted as a candidate.
So, in what way do you think that a lack of management experience automatically translates to a lack of management ability? |
This is quite obvious - Jack Ross and Paul Hurst have demonstrated managerial ability, Frank Lampard hasn't. And he hasn't worked as an Assistant, or as a senior coach. Of course there's a chance he might turn out to be a good manager. But we have no idea.
The fact that he is said to have a high IQ is not a good reason to appoint a manager. I'd rather a manager with proven previous managerial successes. | | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:48 - May 22 with 3501 views | Yaffle |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:15 - May 22 by Herbivore |
If you only include examples where it has worked then of course it's going to look like potentially a good idea. I can very quickly offer you Shearer, Ince and Neville as successful England players from a similar era who quickly found out they weren't up to much as managers. There's literally dozens more ex players who have failed at the first hurdle as managers. |
You choose to ignore that I said there are plenty of ex-players who have made a hash of it. What I did say is that a lack of experience does not necessarily mean a lack of managerial ability and provided some examples to back this up, which was the only point I was attempting to make.
As for your examples, Shearer had 8 games in charge of Newcastle and publically expressed he wouldn't have done it for any other club. I'm pretty sure there were plenty courting Ince after his first spell at MK Dons. As for Neville, I reckon with the benefit of hindsight he would accept that the Valencia job was a poor choice as a first managerial posting. I also think spending your whole career under one manager (especially one like Fergie) is a disadvantage when moving into management. | | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:51 - May 22 with 3493 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:48 - May 22 by Yaffle |
You choose to ignore that I said there are plenty of ex-players who have made a hash of it. What I did say is that a lack of experience does not necessarily mean a lack of managerial ability and provided some examples to back this up, which was the only point I was attempting to make.
As for your examples, Shearer had 8 games in charge of Newcastle and publically expressed he wouldn't have done it for any other club. I'm pretty sure there were plenty courting Ince after his first spell at MK Dons. As for Neville, I reckon with the benefit of hindsight he would accept that the Valencia job was a poor choice as a first managerial posting. I also think spending your whole career under one manager (especially one like Fergie) is a disadvantage when moving into management. |
So basically, he might take to management well or he might not. And that is why he's behind Hurst and Ross for me, two young managers that have proven themselves capable. |  | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:55 - May 22 with 3480 views | Herbivore |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:48 - May 22 by Yaffle |
You choose to ignore that I said there are plenty of ex-players who have made a hash of it. What I did say is that a lack of experience does not necessarily mean a lack of managerial ability and provided some examples to back this up, which was the only point I was attempting to make.
As for your examples, Shearer had 8 games in charge of Newcastle and publically expressed he wouldn't have done it for any other club. I'm pretty sure there were plenty courting Ince after his first spell at MK Dons. As for Neville, I reckon with the benefit of hindsight he would accept that the Valencia job was a poor choice as a first managerial posting. I also think spending your whole career under one manager (especially one like Fergie) is a disadvantage when moving into management. |
How many top Engaland internationals from the last 30 years have gone on to have a decent managerial career? Hoddle is probably about the only one and his managerial career was a bit of a mixed bag. After that you've got Robson, who was a very average manager at best, and Butcher who has been something of a disaster on the whole. Examples of high profile players going into management and immediately succeeding are far rarer than examples of them failing. | |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:05 - May 22 with 3464 views | BloomBlue |
My issue with Lampard is does he have the balls to make the tough decisions? All the best managers have a bit of aggression about them. Even Chelsea fans would laugh at Lampard during his playing days and a bit of aggro on the pitch, Lampard standing behind all the other Chelsea players pointing at the opposition player pretending to be the hard man.
When those tough decisions need to made does be have the balls.
I don't know him so I don't know. |  | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:12 - May 22 with 3436 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 07:51 - May 22 by tractorboy1978 |
So basically, he might take to management well or he might not. And that is why he's behind Hurst and Ross for me, two young managers that have proven themselves capable. |
But equally you could say that Ross / Hurst might be a success here or they might not. Previous success is no guarantee of success at a new club, whoever we appoint it will be a gamble to some extent, I see no reason to rule Lampard out *
* Unless he rules himself out by being a greedy tw@t and wanting more money than his experience commands, in that case I'd say boll@cks to him! * [Post edited 22 May 2018 10:49]
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:21 - May 22 with 3410 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:12 - May 22 by Harry_Palmer |
But equally you could say that Ross / Hurst might be a success here or they might not. Previous success is no guarantee of success at a new club, whoever we appoint it will be a gamble to some extent, I see no reason to rule Lampard out *
* Unless he rules himself out by being a greedy tw@t and wanting more money than his experience commands, in that case I'd say boll@cks to him! * [Post edited 22 May 2018 10:49]
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Agreed but Hurst has managed over 500 games (with just over 50% won) and Ross has managed over 100 games (with just under 50% won) so both would represent considerably less risk to me than a bloke that hasn't managed a competitive first team game.
I happen to think Lampard has all the credentials to take to management well. [Post edited 22 May 2018 8:22]
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:23 - May 22 with 3398 views | Radlett_blue |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:12 - May 22 by Harry_Palmer |
But equally you could say that Ross / Hurst might be a success here or they might not. Previous success is no guarantee of success at a new club, whoever we appoint it will be a gamble to some extent, I see no reason to rule Lampard out *
* Unless he rules himself out by being a greedy tw@t and wanting more money than his experience commands, in that case I'd say boll@cks to him! * [Post edited 22 May 2018 10:49]
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A huge gamble to appoint a manager with no coaching or management experience. I would also doubt Lampard's real commitment to management - I'm sure he's hugely wealthy & if it didn't work out at Town, he could easily return to a bit of punditry and/or blame his lack of success at Town down to lack of resources. |  |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:43 - May 22 with 3365 views | itfcjoe |
I like Lampard, and personally think he will be a success somewhere. His career is a testament to his drive, determination and hard work because he was never the most talented. He turned himself into an absolutely world class player by working harder than everyone else.
I fear that we are too big a job, too early for him though - I think he needs to earn his stripes somewhere and I don't mean in lower leagues as that wouldn't suit or better him. He needs some time on the grass somewhere coaching and getting to know more of the ins and outs.
He is a very smart, very savvy guy, and always seems humble - he'll surround himself with good people most likely from his Chelsea days. Someone like Steve Holland might be looking to get back into the club game.
I would prefer Jack Ross as just like what he has achieved and how he has done it. I think Paul Hurst would be a very decent choice, but I'm just not fussed by him personally - he doesn't get my pulse racing even though he is clearly a very good manager. |  |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:43 - May 22 with 3363 views | Yaffle |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:23 - May 22 by Radlett_blue |
A huge gamble to appoint a manager with no coaching or management experience. I would also doubt Lampard's real commitment to management - I'm sure he's hugely wealthy & if it didn't work out at Town, he could easily return to a bit of punditry and/or blame his lack of success at Town down to lack of resources. |
I'm pretty sure he had more money than he would ever need after his 500th game. It never stopped him from giving everything in the next 500. Do you really believe the likes of Lampard are motivated by money at this stage of their careers? | | | |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:45 - May 22 with 3354 views | LeoMuff |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:43 - May 22 by itfcjoe |
I like Lampard, and personally think he will be a success somewhere. His career is a testament to his drive, determination and hard work because he was never the most talented. He turned himself into an absolutely world class player by working harder than everyone else.
I fear that we are too big a job, too early for him though - I think he needs to earn his stripes somewhere and I don't mean in lower leagues as that wouldn't suit or better him. He needs some time on the grass somewhere coaching and getting to know more of the ins and outs.
He is a very smart, very savvy guy, and always seems humble - he'll surround himself with good people most likely from his Chelsea days. Someone like Steve Holland might be looking to get back into the club game.
I would prefer Jack Ross as just like what he has achieved and how he has done it. I think Paul Hurst would be a very decent choice, but I'm just not fussed by him personally - he doesn't get my pulse racing even though he is clearly a very good manager. |
Can I ask what evidence there is to him being a smart savvy guy ? Surely that is total guesswork. |  |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:50 - May 22 with 3344 views | itfcjoe |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:45 - May 22 by LeoMuff |
Can I ask what evidence there is to him being a smart savvy guy ? Surely that is total guesswork. |
He excelled at school despite being obvious he was going to make it as a pro footballer. And also having listened to him hundreds of times over the last 20 years and personally spoken to him on a couple of occassions it is just obvious how smart and considered he is. | |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:50 - May 22 with 3342 views | Radlett_blue |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:43 - May 22 by Yaffle |
I'm pretty sure he had more money than he would ever need after his 500th game. It never stopped him from giving everything in the next 500. Do you really believe the likes of Lampard are motivated by money at this stage of their careers? |
I can see why he kept playing football as the buzz from playing top level sport is near impossible to replace.
I would question his motivation to manage Town. At best, he will want to do well so that he can then be a candidate for the Chelsea job, which comes up every 2 years or so. At worst, he can walk away & do whatever he wants. I much prefer a candidate who has proven his worth elsewhere in leagues where the football is quite similar to the Championship & also one who seems clearly interested in progressing his career. | |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:59 - May 22 with 3321 views | hype313 |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:43 - May 22 by itfcjoe |
I like Lampard, and personally think he will be a success somewhere. His career is a testament to his drive, determination and hard work because he was never the most talented. He turned himself into an absolutely world class player by working harder than everyone else.
I fear that we are too big a job, too early for him though - I think he needs to earn his stripes somewhere and I don't mean in lower leagues as that wouldn't suit or better him. He needs some time on the grass somewhere coaching and getting to know more of the ins and outs.
He is a very smart, very savvy guy, and always seems humble - he'll surround himself with good people most likely from his Chelsea days. Someone like Steve Holland might be looking to get back into the club game.
I would prefer Jack Ross as just like what he has achieved and how he has done it. I think Paul Hurst would be a very decent choice, but I'm just not fussed by him personally - he doesn't get my pulse racing even though he is clearly a very good manager. |
The other point about both Lampard and Gerrard is the fact that these days players don't need to go into management to continue earning money like previous eras.
You could argue that with the fortunes they amassed they would take one look at it and think no thanks, but the fact they are both saying as far as they are concerned their career is done and it's all about the future, you have to take your hat of to them to a certain degree in respect that they are willing to put their names on the line. |  |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 09:04 - May 22 with 3307 views | Vic |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:23 - May 22 by Radlett_blue |
A huge gamble to appoint a manager with no coaching or management experience. I would also doubt Lampard's real commitment to management - I'm sure he's hugely wealthy & if it didn't work out at Town, he could easily return to a bit of punditry and/or blame his lack of success at Town down to lack of resources. |
And which is why he is probably ME’s third choice - if Phil is to be believed.
3rd choice and not a bad option if we need it - imo. [Post edited 22 May 2018 9:04]
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 09:04 - May 22 with 3303 views | Herbivore |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 08:59 - May 22 by hype313 |
The other point about both Lampard and Gerrard is the fact that these days players don't need to go into management to continue earning money like previous eras.
You could argue that with the fortunes they amassed they would take one look at it and think no thanks, but the fact they are both saying as far as they are concerned their career is done and it's all about the future, you have to take your hat of to them to a certain degree in respect that they are willing to put their names on the line. |
Whilst that is true, the other side of it is that if the job gets too tough they know they can slope off back to Sky or BT Sport and make a cushty living as a pundit without the stress of management. That's a very real risk, the likes of Adams and Sheringham who were similarly high profile didn't do great as managers and just quietly slipped away. The likes of Ross and Hurst, in contrast, are by no means sorted for life and that's got to provide that extra hunger and determination to make it work, especially when things are tough. | |
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| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 09:06 - May 22 with 3283 views | hype313 |
| Why so much negativity towards Lampard? on 09:04 - May 22 by Herbivore |
Whilst that is true, the other side of it is that if the job gets too tough they know they can slope off back to Sky or BT Sport and make a cushty living as a pundit without the stress of management. That's a very real risk, the likes of Adams and Sheringham who were similarly high profile didn't do great as managers and just quietly slipped away. The likes of Ross and Hurst, in contrast, are by no means sorted for life and that's got to provide that extra hunger and determination to make it work, especially when things are tough. |
Yeah agreed, I supposed the other side to my argument is the fact that they have got so much money they don't really have to worry if they get sacked, unlike Ross and Hurst as you say. | |
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