| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... 19:28 - Apr 17 with 10717 views | Funge |
... all the reds, are, er, colours now. |  | | |  |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 11:46 - Apr 18 with 1248 views | GeoffSentence |
Plenty of division on this thread over whether they are justified in protesting or not, or whether the actions they take are right or not.
Not so long ago Insulate Britain were upsetting people in exactly the same way.
More recently I have seen some of the mainstream media who were critical of them (Times and Telegraph in particular) , now being critical of the Boiler Upgrade Scheme - which is a subsidy for installing heat pumps, arguing that the money would be better used to, errrrrr...... insulate Britain.
In time, I expect that opinion will swing in favour of JSO's aims too. [Post edited 18 Apr 2023 11:50]
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 11:54 - Apr 18 with 1204 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 21:15 - Apr 17 by Swansea_Blue |
A lot of people don’t need reaching, true enough. And then there will be some who can’t be reached as they’ve settled on an anti- position. Some can still be reached though. This may not be the best way in fairness, but there’s so few people trying to raise this issue it feels churlish to knock them. Doing so feels to me like giving up and aligning with the deniers and fossil fuel lobby.
More people do need to wake up and I don’t know what the answer is. Even David Attenborough isn’t cutting through enough with his recent series, so I’m not convinced there’s a non-disruptive solution. [Post edited 17 Apr 2023 21:28]
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Disagree re Sir DA, it was his impassioned, emotional plea to a nationwide audience of millions re plastic in our oceans that was a gamechanger in not only raising awarenss nationwide and overseas (the rights to show such BBC docus are sold world-wide) but in introducing laws to restrict, and now ban, single-use plastic carrier bags, e.g.
There can't be anyone in the UK with average or better IQ/education who is now unaware of the climate change emergency & need for action, so the argument about needing to "raise awareness" amongst the general population simply doesn't wash imho.
As a couple of others have said, targeting ordinary people just alienates them. Shell, BP, etc. etc. must look at these protests & think "well t. f. they haven't targeted us, our depots, our drilling rigs, our transport - any of those things aimed directly at us could really have impacted our operations & hence our profits for shareholders - but as it is, we've got off scot free".  |  |
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 12:07 - Apr 18 with 1172 views | Bellevueblue |
The state of this thread/country/world blows my mind.
How can you be more annoyed about disruption to sporting events then a government paid off by the oil industry refusing to even roadmap the changes we need?
We are fooked as a country/planet/species. Head in the sand and carry on as usual.
I like the idea about protesting outside oil refineries and company headquarters. Genius, I bet that's never been tried before, it'll be sure to have a huge impact... oh wait they've been doing it for years and nobody cares.
Would we be in this situation if the gov/donors/lobbyist didn't have skin in the oil game? |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 12:15 - Apr 18 with 1118 views | Ryorry |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 12:07 - Apr 18 by Bellevueblue |
The state of this thread/country/world blows my mind.
How can you be more annoyed about disruption to sporting events then a government paid off by the oil industry refusing to even roadmap the changes we need?
We are fooked as a country/planet/species. Head in the sand and carry on as usual.
I like the idea about protesting outside oil refineries and company headquarters. Genius, I bet that's never been tried before, it'll be sure to have a huge impact... oh wait they've been doing it for years and nobody cares.
Would we be in this situation if the gov/donors/lobbyist didn't have skin in the oil game? |
Then they should target parliament, individual MPs/cabinet, vote Green en masse.
Speaking as someone who was very active in the successful anti-fracking campaign, including helping supply the Kirby Misperton protest camp in North Yorks. This was direct action that impeded the drillers' transport & therefore their operations, as well as educating & influencing local people.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-43243843 [Post edited 18 Apr 2023 12:19]
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:19 - Apr 18 with 1109 views | MattinLondon |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 11:54 - Apr 18 by Ryorry |
Disagree re Sir DA, it was his impassioned, emotional plea to a nationwide audience of millions re plastic in our oceans that was a gamechanger in not only raising awarenss nationwide and overseas (the rights to show such BBC docus are sold world-wide) but in introducing laws to restrict, and now ban, single-use plastic carrier bags, e.g.
There can't be anyone in the UK with average or better IQ/education who is now unaware of the climate change emergency & need for action, so the argument about needing to "raise awareness" amongst the general population simply doesn't wash imho.
As a couple of others have said, targeting ordinary people just alienates them. Shell, BP, etc. etc. must look at these protests & think "well t. f. they haven't targeted us, our depots, our drilling rigs, our transport - any of those things aimed directly at us could really have impacted our operations & hence our profits for shareholders - but as it is, we've got off scot free". |
The main trouble being is that the population, on the whole, has proven itself to be far too selfish to really tackle climate change effectively. Every time a proposal to limit where people can drive is considered then it gets opposed ‘it’s my right to drive etc’. When people state that big tractor like cars should be heavily taxed then it’s a case of ‘yeah but, I need it where I live etc’.
Also, a fair few politicians receive gifts and hospitality from oil companies which obviously doesn’t influence their position.
It seems so obvious to me that I must be wrong - heavily subsidise public transport, make it a lot lot better. It won’t happen overnight but if the process started twenty years ago then it could well have been happening now. |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 12:21 - Apr 18 with 1089 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 07:59 - Apr 18 by DJR |
I'm of the left but equally dislike James O'Brien, a know-all who comes across as both arrogant and condescending.
If the Labour attack ad on Rishi Sunak is anything to go by, he may well keep his head down on this. [Post edited 18 Apr 2023 8:01]
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Looks like he has ducked it |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:24 - Apr 18 with 1093 views | Buhrer |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 11:54 - Apr 18 by Ryorry |
Disagree re Sir DA, it was his impassioned, emotional plea to a nationwide audience of millions re plastic in our oceans that was a gamechanger in not only raising awarenss nationwide and overseas (the rights to show such BBC docus are sold world-wide) but in introducing laws to restrict, and now ban, single-use plastic carrier bags, e.g.
There can't be anyone in the UK with average or better IQ/education who is now unaware of the climate change emergency & need for action, so the argument about needing to "raise awareness" amongst the general population simply doesn't wash imho.
As a couple of others have said, targeting ordinary people just alienates them. Shell, BP, etc. etc. must look at these protests & think "well t. f. they haven't targeted us, our depots, our drilling rigs, our transport - any of those things aimed directly at us could really have impacted our operations & hence our profits for shareholders - but as it is, we've got off scot free". |
The WWF informed me as a child about 40 years ago the seas were filling with plastic choking turtles.... what took David so long?
The natural world is f o ooked. |  | | |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:27 - Apr 18 with 1086 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:19 - Apr 18 by MattinLondon |
The main trouble being is that the population, on the whole, has proven itself to be far too selfish to really tackle climate change effectively. Every time a proposal to limit where people can drive is considered then it gets opposed ‘it’s my right to drive etc’. When people state that big tractor like cars should be heavily taxed then it’s a case of ‘yeah but, I need it where I live etc’.
Also, a fair few politicians receive gifts and hospitality from oil companies which obviously doesn’t influence their position.
It seems so obvious to me that I must be wrong - heavily subsidise public transport, make it a lot lot better. It won’t happen overnight but if the process started twenty years ago then it could well have been happening now. |
There's a difference beteen selfishness (yes, agreed, many people need to be adversely affected themselves, eg by flooding; before they'll really take note & act) and necessity - as I pointed out to you last time you & I discussed this, I only bought a 4 x 4 after I'd broken two axles in a few short months on my Volvo car, simply going up the 500m long & rough track to my house.
Not going to debate that one yet again with you. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:33 - Apr 18 with 1078 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:24 - Apr 18 by Buhrer |
The WWF informed me as a child about 40 years ago the seas were filling with plastic choking turtles.... what took David so long?
The natural world is f o ooked. |
I too was aware of that as a child, by the same means (also more generally, Rachel Carson in her hugely influental book 'Silent Spring' which I'm guessing you read too).
Unfortunately they didn't have the same reach/impact as Sir DA in his TV progs seen by millions, & in any case, the message clearly needed repeating in a new media for new generations & new critical situation. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:33 - Apr 18 with 1075 views | NthQldITFC |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:19 - Apr 18 by MattinLondon |
The main trouble being is that the population, on the whole, has proven itself to be far too selfish to really tackle climate change effectively. Every time a proposal to limit where people can drive is considered then it gets opposed ‘it’s my right to drive etc’. When people state that big tractor like cars should be heavily taxed then it’s a case of ‘yeah but, I need it where I live etc’.
Also, a fair few politicians receive gifts and hospitality from oil companies which obviously doesn’t influence their position.
It seems so obvious to me that I must be wrong - heavily subsidise public transport, make it a lot lot better. It won’t happen overnight but if the process started twenty years ago then it could well have been happening now. |
There are definitely a high fraction of those who fall into that selfish camp, but there are also those who genuinely, I think, still haven't got the message. That is down to a catastrophic failure of science/government/media to be strong enough get the frightening message across.
(Obviously a lot of that is down to short-termist vested interests, but in a way we need to forget the blame game and just wake everyone up all of a sudden.)
Anything that triggers debate and reaches out to a few more of those to take the time to understand on whatever level they are capable of is a good thing in my opinion.
We're not going to stop catastrophic outcomes, that much is blindingly obvious now to anyone with even a basic education who has taken the time to look at the evidence in an open-minded, humble and non-selfish way, but what we can do with radical action is reduce the impact in a way that might just save our grandchildren's lives a few years down the line. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:35 - Apr 18 with 1072 views | NthQldITFC |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:27 - Apr 18 by Ryorry |
There's a difference beteen selfishness (yes, agreed, many people need to be adversely affected themselves, eg by flooding; before they'll really take note & act) and necessity - as I pointed out to you last time you & I discussed this, I only bought a 4 x 4 after I'd broken two axles in a few short months on my Volvo car, simply going up the 500m long & rough track to my house.
Not going to debate that one yet again with you. |
...and importantly as you pointed out before, you maintain and repair that old vehicle and use it sparingly. It's suitable for your purpose. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:43 - Apr 18 with 1053 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:24 - Apr 18 by Buhrer |
The WWF informed me as a child about 40 years ago the seas were filling with plastic choking turtles.... what took David so long?
The natural world is f o ooked. |
King Charles has been banging on about it since the 1960's | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:48 - Apr 18 with 1028 views | itfcjoe |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:33 - Apr 18 by NthQldITFC |
There are definitely a high fraction of those who fall into that selfish camp, but there are also those who genuinely, I think, still haven't got the message. That is down to a catastrophic failure of science/government/media to be strong enough get the frightening message across.
(Obviously a lot of that is down to short-termist vested interests, but in a way we need to forget the blame game and just wake everyone up all of a sudden.)
Anything that triggers debate and reaches out to a few more of those to take the time to understand on whatever level they are capable of is a good thing in my opinion.
We're not going to stop catastrophic outcomes, that much is blindingly obvious now to anyone with even a basic education who has taken the time to look at the evidence in an open-minded, humble and non-selfish way, but what we can do with radical action is reduce the impact in a way that might just save our grandchildren's lives a few years down the line. |
Personally, I find the message that some give just way to OTT to be credible - the protestors crying saying the world is going to end in 30 years etc, it just simply isn't the case.
I don't know what the message should be, but when it is said in such a hyperbolic and exaggerated way it makes some people switch off, and others think- well if we are all screwed anyway then what's the point.
And when you see the pollution and heavy industry in China, or the US, it's hard to think I need to wash out my yoghurt pot rather than through it straight in the bin.
The only way things will change is gradually, and there have been changes which are bringing this into fruition - but the problem is for each change made (in my industry as an e.g.) there becomes a hundred unforessen changes required and you wonder if we are even any better off?
We need thicker insulation, it is 50% bigger, it is imported from France so takes much more space and fuel etc to do so, then taken to merchants, then to site, more waste from offcuts etc and how much does it actually save over the lifetime of the house?
There are some quick wins everyone should be being encouraged and incentivised to do though, there is no doubt about that - but if one side is saying it's too late now to make a difference then why will people inconvenience themselves? |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:50 - Apr 18 with 1021 views | Buhrer |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:43 - Apr 18 by Lord_Lucan |
King Charles has been banging on about it since the 1960's |
Just like Queenie, he's certainly used his entitlement well. What a hero. Gawd bless him and all his voyages upon Queen Camisole | | | |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:52 - Apr 18 with 1017 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:35 - Apr 18 by NthQldITFC |
...and importantly as you pointed out before, you maintain and repair that old vehicle and use it sparingly. It's suitable for your purpose. |
Indeed, the lifespan of Landrovers is quite legendary - "an estimated 70% of all Series Land Rovers and Defenders ever made — 2,016,933 vehicles — are still on the road" (from google, not sure how accurate). Determination to preserve no doubt helped now by their having gone out of production.
Sad to say that after moving house to "only" having a steep 150m long concreted drive, when the chassis of my old Defender90 (1999), despite regular waxoyling, needed replacing (cost £5K) a couple of years ago, I swapped it with my neighbour for his 2009 Freelander. That old Landie of mine with a new chassis now, would be worth at least £13K, going by what I've seen of eBay auctions!  | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:56 - Apr 18 with 1001 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 11:54 - Apr 18 by Ryorry |
Disagree re Sir DA, it was his impassioned, emotional plea to a nationwide audience of millions re plastic in our oceans that was a gamechanger in not only raising awarenss nationwide and overseas (the rights to show such BBC docus are sold world-wide) but in introducing laws to restrict, and now ban, single-use plastic carrier bags, e.g.
There can't be anyone in the UK with average or better IQ/education who is now unaware of the climate change emergency & need for action, so the argument about needing to "raise awareness" amongst the general population simply doesn't wash imho.
As a couple of others have said, targeting ordinary people just alienates them. Shell, BP, etc. etc. must look at these protests & think "well t. f. they haven't targeted us, our depots, our drilling rigs, our transport - any of those things aimed directly at us could really have impacted our operations & hence our profits for shareholders - but as it is, we've got off scot free". |
Yes, he cut through for plastic - the response was amazing. I was thinking more about his recent Wild Isles series highlighting species loss and environmental degradation - it doesn't seem to have made much of a ripple.
I imagine the problem with targeting depots is that nobody's there to see it. We'll disagree on the need to reach more people. There's seems to be plenty of people who hold anti- and/or apathetic positions and who even advocate physical violence against the protesters (as per in this thread, and also the tightening up of laws to make protest harder with stiffer penalties). People take the side of then likes of Shell, BP, etc., whilst at the same time these companies are making record profits at the expense of ordinary people whilst polluting the environment. Future generations will look back at our slavery to oil and these mega corporations and think we were nuts. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 13:03 - Apr 18 with 982 views | Darth_Koont |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:48 - Apr 18 by itfcjoe |
Personally, I find the message that some give just way to OTT to be credible - the protestors crying saying the world is going to end in 30 years etc, it just simply isn't the case.
I don't know what the message should be, but when it is said in such a hyperbolic and exaggerated way it makes some people switch off, and others think- well if we are all screwed anyway then what's the point.
And when you see the pollution and heavy industry in China, or the US, it's hard to think I need to wash out my yoghurt pot rather than through it straight in the bin.
The only way things will change is gradually, and there have been changes which are bringing this into fruition - but the problem is for each change made (in my industry as an e.g.) there becomes a hundred unforessen changes required and you wonder if we are even any better off?
We need thicker insulation, it is 50% bigger, it is imported from France so takes much more space and fuel etc to do so, then taken to merchants, then to site, more waste from offcuts etc and how much does it actually save over the lifetime of the house?
There are some quick wins everyone should be being encouraged and incentivised to do though, there is no doubt about that - but if one side is saying it's too late now to make a difference then why will people inconvenience themselves? |
Disagree.
Climate change over the next 30 years means potentially billions of people being displaced, water becoming much scarcer in already drought-threatened areas and large parts of the planet becoming uninhabitable/unusable for agriculture.
It’s by far the biggest challenge we face. And only handling it early and well will prevent the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (Death, Famine, War and Conquest) from riding in as a direct result.
Change is rarely if ever gradual when it comes to people and societies. Certainly not change at the scale and scope required but the key thing is that we can’t wait for the crisis that will precipitate that change. As it is literally apocalyptic for the vast majority of the planet. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 13:15 - Apr 18 with 966 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:56 - Apr 18 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes, he cut through for plastic - the response was amazing. I was thinking more about his recent Wild Isles series highlighting species loss and environmental degradation - it doesn't seem to have made much of a ripple.
I imagine the problem with targeting depots is that nobody's there to see it. We'll disagree on the need to reach more people. There's seems to be plenty of people who hold anti- and/or apathetic positions and who even advocate physical violence against the protesters (as per in this thread, and also the tightening up of laws to make protest harder with stiffer penalties). People take the side of then likes of Shell, BP, etc., whilst at the same time these companies are making record profits at the expense of ordinary people whilst polluting the environment. Future generations will look back at our slavery to oil and these mega corporations and think we were nuts. |
See the post I followed up with re direct action by the anti-fracking movement, which received huge coverage locally - was the leading item on local TV news & papers on too many days to count, over a period of years, particularly during local Council debates & voting (which was streamed live, followed by thousands incl myself), plus when protesters were arrested, in court, charges dropped, statements afterwards etc. And got national coverage on some days too.
Maybe it has to start locally, with things local communities are affected by (I've only just thought of that in reviving memories of the anti-fracking campaign). I think the majority of local people who didn't have vested interests but had previously been pro-fracking, were actually won round & changed in their views by the campaign, as evidenced last year when some eejit Tories thought it'd be a great idea to remove the moratorium - the number of those opposing, & level of uproar locally was far, far greater & more widespread than it had ever been pre the KM protest camp.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/26/rishi-sunak-ban-on-fracking- | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 13:56 - Apr 18 with 869 views | itfcjoe |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 13:03 - Apr 18 by Darth_Koont |
Disagree.
Climate change over the next 30 years means potentially billions of people being displaced, water becoming much scarcer in already drought-threatened areas and large parts of the planet becoming uninhabitable/unusable for agriculture.
It’s by far the biggest challenge we face. And only handling it early and well will prevent the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (Death, Famine, War and Conquest) from riding in as a direct result.
Change is rarely if ever gradual when it comes to people and societies. Certainly not change at the scale and scope required but the key thing is that we can’t wait for the crisis that will precipitate that change. As it is literally apocalyptic for the vast majority of the planet. |
I think the difficulty is that generally every big set piece stunt/protest and then spokesman tends to be a really posh kid and whilst people are struggling themselves financially and seeing costs go up in every facet of their life it ends up with messengers that people don't like/have time for delivering a message people can't really do much about individually at the moment.
How is best to get a message over? I don't know, and don't think it's possible with this corpse Govt in place - but whoever it changes too here, I just don't see how the scales of problems can be solved in timespans given before the world apparently ends. If as a country we were to move away from Fossil Fuels, fully into green energy (before we talk about mining for batteries, life length of them etc) it's going to take 10 years at an absolute minimum and then we are 18 years before the protestors say the planet is dead.
There needs to be some moonshot thinking with regards to green investment - and on paper it is something that the UK could be aiming to be world leading in - but we won't be as won't spend the money required | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:20 - Apr 18 with 811 views | NthQldITFC |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:48 - Apr 18 by itfcjoe |
Personally, I find the message that some give just way to OTT to be credible - the protestors crying saying the world is going to end in 30 years etc, it just simply isn't the case.
I don't know what the message should be, but when it is said in such a hyperbolic and exaggerated way it makes some people switch off, and others think- well if we are all screwed anyway then what's the point.
And when you see the pollution and heavy industry in China, or the US, it's hard to think I need to wash out my yoghurt pot rather than through it straight in the bin.
The only way things will change is gradually, and there have been changes which are bringing this into fruition - but the problem is for each change made (in my industry as an e.g.) there becomes a hundred unforessen changes required and you wonder if we are even any better off?
We need thicker insulation, it is 50% bigger, it is imported from France so takes much more space and fuel etc to do so, then taken to merchants, then to site, more waste from offcuts etc and how much does it actually save over the lifetime of the house?
There are some quick wins everyone should be being encouraged and incentivised to do though, there is no doubt about that - but if one side is saying it's too late now to make a difference then why will people inconvenience themselves? |
I hear what you're saying. There's no "World's going to end" date or a timeline for any specific event that makes any sense, because we can't know, and obsession with dates does take the focus away from the ongoing and worsening problem.
What is clear is that all of the science (and increasingly the direct evidence) points towards an accelerating collapse of nature, and if you don't care about nature, an accelerating collapse of food and water supply and (I think it's safe to assume) international conflict for those resources. The more energy which is stored in the Earth-system now (specifically in the seas), the worse the outcomes are going to be - the momentum of that stored energy in terms of bad outcomes is what we need to try to minimise, not for its effect now, really, but for the sake of the future.
Every credible scientist is screaming out for a radical change to our way of life, something that we have to embrace from top to bottom and bottom to top - pissing around pretending we're going to make gradual changes (and then not actually making them!) is not going to do it.
In some ways I'm sympathetic with the view that there's no hope, so why inconvenience ourselves - but the thing is we don't know that there's no hope - we might be able to make enough of a difference to make trying worthwhile - then you have hope. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:23 - Apr 18 with 793 views | Darth_Koont |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 13:56 - Apr 18 by itfcjoe |
I think the difficulty is that generally every big set piece stunt/protest and then spokesman tends to be a really posh kid and whilst people are struggling themselves financially and seeing costs go up in every facet of their life it ends up with messengers that people don't like/have time for delivering a message people can't really do much about individually at the moment.
How is best to get a message over? I don't know, and don't think it's possible with this corpse Govt in place - but whoever it changes too here, I just don't see how the scales of problems can be solved in timespans given before the world apparently ends. If as a country we were to move away from Fossil Fuels, fully into green energy (before we talk about mining for batteries, life length of them etc) it's going to take 10 years at an absolute minimum and then we are 18 years before the protestors say the planet is dead.
There needs to be some moonshot thinking with regards to green investment - and on paper it is something that the UK could be aiming to be world leading in - but we won't be as won't spend the money required |
But nobody has been listening however the threat has been highlighted.
It’s now come to stunts and civil action, we’ll be looking at freedom fighters/terrorism next and with justifiable reason given our shameful unwillingness to tackle the problem. | |
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 14:26 - Apr 18 with 782 views | blueasfook |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 12:07 - Apr 18 by Bellevueblue |
The state of this thread/country/world blows my mind.
How can you be more annoyed about disruption to sporting events then a government paid off by the oil industry refusing to even roadmap the changes we need?
We are fooked as a country/planet/species. Head in the sand and carry on as usual.
I like the idea about protesting outside oil refineries and company headquarters. Genius, I bet that's never been tried before, it'll be sure to have a huge impact... oh wait they've been doing it for years and nobody cares.
Would we be in this situation if the gov/donors/lobbyist didn't have skin in the oil game? |
To be successful in protesting, it generally helps to have the public on your side.
What these clowns are doing, is garnering them no public support whatsoever. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:28 - Apr 18 with 776 views | Darth_Koont |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:20 - Apr 18 by NthQldITFC |
I hear what you're saying. There's no "World's going to end" date or a timeline for any specific event that makes any sense, because we can't know, and obsession with dates does take the focus away from the ongoing and worsening problem.
What is clear is that all of the science (and increasingly the direct evidence) points towards an accelerating collapse of nature, and if you don't care about nature, an accelerating collapse of food and water supply and (I think it's safe to assume) international conflict for those resources. The more energy which is stored in the Earth-system now (specifically in the seas), the worse the outcomes are going to be - the momentum of that stored energy in terms of bad outcomes is what we need to try to minimise, not for its effect now, really, but for the sake of the future.
Every credible scientist is screaming out for a radical change to our way of life, something that we have to embrace from top to bottom and bottom to top - pissing around pretending we're going to make gradual changes (and then not actually making them!) is not going to do it.
In some ways I'm sympathetic with the view that there's no hope, so why inconvenience ourselves - but the thing is we don't know that there's no hope - we might be able to make enough of a difference to make trying worthwhile - then you have hope. |
As a corollary we’re seeing the failure of neoliberalism and growth as the driver when developed nations are starting to see our health and happiness falling. Never mind that a majority under 40 are getting priced out of the benefits of growth.
We need an economic reset for the planet but modern societies as a whole that are creaking under the weight. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:34 - Apr 18 with 751 views | itfcjoe |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:28 - Apr 18 by Darth_Koont |
As a corollary we’re seeing the failure of neoliberalism and growth as the driver when developed nations are starting to see our health and happiness falling. Never mind that a majority under 40 are getting priced out of the benefits of growth.
We need an economic reset for the planet but modern societies as a whole that are creaking under the weight. |
There is a huge issue with massive wealth inequalities across the world which feeds into this - that it is cheaper to catch fish in the North Sea, and send them to the other side of the world to be processed and packaged and distributed to then sell them in Norfolk and Suffolk is just incredible - but that is the case.
But how does a reset happen that isn't just as painful as any future climate emergency? | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:37 - Apr 18 with 733 views | Darth_Koont |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:34 - Apr 18 by itfcjoe |
There is a huge issue with massive wealth inequalities across the world which feeds into this - that it is cheaper to catch fish in the North Sea, and send them to the other side of the world to be processed and packaged and distributed to then sell them in Norfolk and Suffolk is just incredible - but that is the case.
But how does a reset happen that isn't just as painful as any future climate emergency? |
Who is an economic reset actually painful for? Considering the status quo is increasingly painful for the majority. | |
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