| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... 19:28 - Apr 17 with 10291 views | Funge |
... all the reds, are, er, colours now. |  | | |  |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 15:32 - Apr 18 with 1557 views | Ryorry |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 14:26 - Apr 18 by blueasfook |
To be successful in protesting, it generally helps to have the public on your side.
What these clowns are doing, is garnering them no public support whatsoever. |
Or worse, alienates people - even driving some down the road of "they're all a bunch of loons" - completely counterproductive, removes some degree of credibility re the climate crisis in their eyes. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 15:33 - Apr 18 with 1551 views | itfcjoe |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:37 - Apr 18 by Darth_Koont |
Who is an economic reset actually painful for? Considering the status quo is increasingly painful for the majority. |
There is 'increasingly painful' then terminally painful for some which a reset could be for huge swathes of people |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 15:42 - Apr 18 with 1482 views | bluelagos |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 14:37 - Apr 18 by Darth_Koont |
Who is an economic reset actually painful for? Considering the status quo is increasingly painful for the majority. |
I think we have to be honest - and accept the reset will be painful, but that the alternative a whole lot worse.
So for example anyone driving - if/when we switch to electric cars that's likely going to be more expensive in the short term.
Same with installing heat pumps and/or solar panels on our homes - additional costs compared to maintaining our gas boilers.
And the example of the fish - well if we process them locally rather than shipping them to be processed and back again - the costs will mean the fish fingers are most expensive for us - and there will be an economic impact on those who lose jobs.
Now all of that does not mean I don't think we need to make the tough decisions and do what needs doing. I just think that when politicians claim we can make the changes necessary and not also make sacrifices in our life style, weath, incomes - we are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Lets be honest about what we need to do, and get on and do it. The alternative is far more unpleasant and will impact the world's poorest far worst of all. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 15:45 - Apr 18 with 1479 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 15:42 - Apr 18 by bluelagos |
I think we have to be honest - and accept the reset will be painful, but that the alternative a whole lot worse.
So for example anyone driving - if/when we switch to electric cars that's likely going to be more expensive in the short term.
Same with installing heat pumps and/or solar panels on our homes - additional costs compared to maintaining our gas boilers.
And the example of the fish - well if we process them locally rather than shipping them to be processed and back again - the costs will mean the fish fingers are most expensive for us - and there will be an economic impact on those who lose jobs.
Now all of that does not mean I don't think we need to make the tough decisions and do what needs doing. I just think that when politicians claim we can make the changes necessary and not also make sacrifices in our life style, weath, incomes - we are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Lets be honest about what we need to do, and get on and do it. The alternative is far more unpleasant and will impact the world's poorest far worst of all. |
Some people seem to think EVs are the solution re car transport, conveniently forgetting that the electricity has to come from *somewhere*. No use having EVs if the charging power is coming from fossil fuels. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 16:21 - Apr 18 with 1428 views | bluelagos |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 15:45 - Apr 18 by Ryorry |
Some people seem to think EVs are the solution re car transport, conveniently forgetting that the electricity has to come from *somewhere*. No use having EVs if the charging power is coming from fossil fuels. |
Clearly - though we can of course have wind or solar powered electricity.
What disappoints me with EVs is the idea (I read) that the additional manufacturing processes for batteries etc mean they are only about 20% better over their life times compared to petrol cars. If that is true - then I think we need to get way more serious with public transport.
Living in the sticks - jeez public transport is limited. I get 1 bus every 2 hours now to Ipswich, last one around 6pm and nothing at all on a Sunday.
Will always be poor in the sticks vs in towns, but even so - how infrequent are the buses ffs
Said before - I think in 20 years we will look back on say traveling to away footie matches as something that should only be done collectively. Maybe we need to get a proper "share a lift" thing going for next season. | |
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 16:32 - Apr 18 with 1423 views | factual_blue |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 10:27 - Apr 18 by The_Romford_Blue |
Me having a bet on that specific game wasn’t actually relevant.
They’d be selfish c**ts whether i bet on it or not. Those people who paid to watch a world championship match close up, waited all year for this, only to have a couple of vandals ruin it doesn’t sit right with me.
Whilst I’m left wing, I believe I can be objective when some actions are out of order. Many on here can’t criticise anything that might be deemed to be on their side of the line. Yourself being the perfect example.
If it occurred at something you like and the protest was about something right winged (let’s say it was a pro Boris Johnson protest for example).. you’d be the first to moan. You’re a hypocrite Facters. And there’s nothing I despise more than a hypocrite. And a self righteous one at that.
Enjoy the rest of your day. I’m going to leave this thread alone now as the pile on will begin. Uppa Towen. |
Your post is about as fine an example of the self-serving bias as one could hope to find. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 16:35 - Apr 18 with 1421 views | goperryrevs |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 14:26 - Apr 18 by blueasfook |
To be successful in protesting, it generally helps to have the public on your side.
What these clowns are doing, is garnering them no public support whatsoever. |
But 'these clowns' ARE the public. That's the whole point. The people with the power are fiddling while the world burns.
I have some sympathy with the view that it's a bit irritating to have civil disobedience inconvenience our comfortable lives. But... that's also the whole point. Our lives, and the lives of our children are going to get a whole lot more uncomfortable in the coming decades.
You can criticize people for doing the 'wrong thing', but at least they're doing something. Surely more anger should be aimed at the people who could do something meaningful about impacting climate change but choose not to for their own short-term status and finances than those who are pointing out the much bigger problem. |  | | |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 16:45 - Apr 18 with 1389 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 16:21 - Apr 18 by bluelagos |
Clearly - though we can of course have wind or solar powered electricity.
What disappoints me with EVs is the idea (I read) that the additional manufacturing processes for batteries etc mean they are only about 20% better over their life times compared to petrol cars. If that is true - then I think we need to get way more serious with public transport.
Living in the sticks - jeez public transport is limited. I get 1 bus every 2 hours now to Ipswich, last one around 6pm and nothing at all on a Sunday.
Will always be poor in the sticks vs in towns, but even so - how infrequent are the buses ffs
Said before - I think in 20 years we will look back on say traveling to away footie matches as something that should only be done collectively. Maybe we need to get a proper "share a lift" thing going for next season. |
Yeah I'm not a huge fan of EVs for the reasons you mention, plus their silence means that on the dangerous single-track country lanes round here with blind bends and brows, they're literally life-threatening! esp given the way that some people drive. Good for people with asthma etc. in cities of course.
North Yorks is pushing car sharing from their purely selfish pov (congestion in Ripon & Harrogate, largely due to their own total incompetence in sorting out road systems & co-ordinating roadworks).
Rural bus services have consistently & repeatedly been reduced & reduced & reduced. Absolute need to be subsidised. Look at European countries ... as with everything else ...
Sharing transport to matches would defo be all positives - good for atmos, shared joy or grief on the return journey etc. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 17:10 - Apr 18 with 1360 views | NthQldITFC |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 16:21 - Apr 18 by bluelagos |
Clearly - though we can of course have wind or solar powered electricity.
What disappoints me with EVs is the idea (I read) that the additional manufacturing processes for batteries etc mean they are only about 20% better over their life times compared to petrol cars. If that is true - then I think we need to get way more serious with public transport.
Living in the sticks - jeez public transport is limited. I get 1 bus every 2 hours now to Ipswich, last one around 6pm and nothing at all on a Sunday.
Will always be poor in the sticks vs in towns, but even so - how infrequent are the buses ffs
Said before - I think in 20 years we will look back on say traveling to away footie matches as something that should only be done collectively. Maybe we need to get a proper "share a lift" thing going for next season. |
' I get 1 bus every 2 hours now to Ipswich, last one around 6pm and nothing at all on a Sunday. '
Cor, you go into Ipswich every two hours? You can look on here to see when Town are playing, you don't have to turn up on spec!
SN, a functional and robust (and these days it could be flexible too) publicly-funded not-for-profit public transport system will be the first act of my new government. Or maybe the second after outlawing yellow and green as a combination. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 18:33 - Apr 18 with 1267 views | Herbivore |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 16:21 - Apr 18 by bluelagos |
Clearly - though we can of course have wind or solar powered electricity.
What disappoints me with EVs is the idea (I read) that the additional manufacturing processes for batteries etc mean they are only about 20% better over their life times compared to petrol cars. If that is true - then I think we need to get way more serious with public transport.
Living in the sticks - jeez public transport is limited. I get 1 bus every 2 hours now to Ipswich, last one around 6pm and nothing at all on a Sunday.
Will always be poor in the sticks vs in towns, but even so - how infrequent are the buses ffs
Said before - I think in 20 years we will look back on say traveling to away footie matches as something that should only be done collectively. Maybe we need to get a proper "share a lift" thing going for next season. |
We need to massively reduce car ownership and use. EVs are miles from being carbon neutral and they still release quite a lot of particulate matter from their tyres and that isn't great for air quality and suchlike. What we really need, as you say, is cheap and effective public transport but that requires genuinely progressive government. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 19:10 - Apr 18 with 1211 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 13:03 - Apr 18 by Darth_Koont |
Disagree.
Climate change over the next 30 years means potentially billions of people being displaced, water becoming much scarcer in already drought-threatened areas and large parts of the planet becoming uninhabitable/unusable for agriculture.
It’s by far the biggest challenge we face. And only handling it early and well will prevent the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse (Death, Famine, War and Conquest) from riding in as a direct result.
Change is rarely if ever gradual when it comes to people and societies. Certainly not change at the scale and scope required but the key thing is that we can’t wait for the crisis that will precipitate that change. As it is literally apocalyptic for the vast majority of the planet. |
Those charities that work with the world's poorest are campaigning on this issue for this very reason. The effects are being felt by the world's poorest are being felt now. Not in 30 years.
It is easy for the world's richest to sit back and complain if a horse race is delayed or a snooker match inconvenienced. Less easy to convince many to care about the most vulnerable people in the world until they come knocking at our door on a swarm of boats. Perhaps if we are full, we should stop ensuring much of the 3rd world is uninhabitable. |  |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 19:18 - Apr 18 with 1167 views | NthQldITFC |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 18:33 - Apr 18 by Herbivore |
We need to massively reduce car ownership and use. EVs are miles from being carbon neutral and they still release quite a lot of particulate matter from their tyres and that isn't great for air quality and suchlike. What we really need, as you say, is cheap and effective public transport but that requires genuinely progressive government. |
Absolutely. Shifting a ton of matter around often with one person in it, frequently braking and dissipating that kinetic energy as heat (not always now of course) and then converting more chemical or electrical energy back into kinetic, and then dumping a lot of it (almost all of it ultimately) out as heat is stupid.
But then "I've got a right to drive around in my car and buy a new one every few years!" | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 19:45 - Apr 18 with 1140 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 10:54 - Apr 18 by blueasfook |
And actually, the UK is probably doing more than a lot of countries to reduce climate change. Considering we are a relatively small country anyway we only produce a small percentage of the world's greenhouse gases. The issue is with the big polluters with heavily industrialised economies such as China, India, US, etc. |
Not really. We've just outsourced our emissions to places like China because have very little manufacturing. Of the major economies, we have the highest level of oursourced emissions:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/imported-or-exported-co-emissions-per-capita? |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 11:44 - Apr 19 with 1003 views | DJR |
The "dash for gas" (done for political and economic reasons) also meant that we moved away from coal for generating electricity. And our location, surrounded by sea, meant we were in a favourable position for wind power.
Despite all this, our per capita CO2 emissions are not that much lower than China. |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 11:47 - Apr 19 with 998 views | Herbivore |
Indeed. And actually our emissions on a per capita rather than absolute basis are still comparatively high even with the outsourcing we do. | |
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 11:55 - Apr 19 with 985 views | DJR |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 09:28 - Apr 18 by Lord_Lucan |
Good for you for being able to criticise someone who generally supports your views, it shows you have some grey matter.
I generally lean to the right but I do have the odd leftie opinion, in fact I don't really like the whole left and right thing, it compartmentalises everyone too much.
Since the snooker escapade I have weird flashes of countenance for the actions, however, ultimately I see it as an attack on the public. [Post edited 18 Apr 2023 9:39]
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I think things are always more nuanced than the increasingly polarised world we live in would suggest.
Live and let live is my general philosophy, and for my own part, I don't really care what the protesters get up to. Indeed, I remember being stuck at the junction of the A12 and M25 for an hour or so on the way to a game last season because of a threatened Extinction Rebellion protest, but just took it in my stride.
However, I am not convinced that alienating a million or more snooker viewers is the way to win friends and influence people. Maybe they need to go on a Dale Carnegie course. [Post edited 19 Apr 2023 14:47]
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 11:58 - Apr 19 with 982 views | Ryorry |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 11:44 - Apr 19 by DJR |
The "dash for gas" (done for political and economic reasons) also meant that we moved away from coal for generating electricity. And our location, surrounded by sea, meant we were in a favourable position for wind power.
Despite all this, our per capita CO2 emissions are not that much lower than China. |
And - sorry to keep perennially banging on about this, but, but - we are also surrounded by waves, and wave power if harnessed is HUGE (I do specifically mean wave motion, not tidal power).
It's not an easy technology to utilise, but the Institute for Oceanography in Orkney (since changed its name I think) had working models for generating from waves extant in the early 1990s. If successive bloody governments had put even half the vested interests they had/have in oil & gas into R&D on this particular technology, I have no doubt that the UK could have been totally self-sufficient in electricity by now.
Very interesting repeat prog on BBC4 a couple of nights ago btw - 'The Secret Life of Waves' - only caught a glimpse but looks well-worth a catch-up - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y5jhx | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:16 - Apr 19 with 945 views | Ryorry |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 19:18 - Apr 18 by NthQldITFC |
Absolutely. Shifting a ton of matter around often with one person in it, frequently braking and dissipating that kinetic energy as heat (not always now of course) and then converting more chemical or electrical energy back into kinetic, and then dumping a lot of it (almost all of it ultimately) out as heat is stupid.
But then "I've got a right to drive around in my car and buy a new one every few years!" |
For millions it's not a matter of having a "right" to drive, it's a matter of *having* to drive to work, to medical appointments etc etc because there's simply no alternative - particularly in rural areas as has already been pointed out.
Provide an efficient, far-reaching public transport network with park-and-ride options where numbers are thin & cluster points are needed to make the system efficient, and people would be able to give up their cars, or at least drastically reduce their use. | |
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| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:38 - Apr 19 with 913 views | J2BLUE |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 12:16 - Apr 19 by Ryorry |
For millions it's not a matter of having a "right" to drive, it's a matter of *having* to drive to work, to medical appointments etc etc because there's simply no alternative - particularly in rural areas as has already been pointed out.
Provide an efficient, far-reaching public transport network with park-and-ride options where numbers are thin & cluster points are needed to make the system efficient, and people would be able to give up their cars, or at least drastically reduce their use. |
Agree.
Generally onboard with the climate argument and the need to make big changes NOW but there also needs to be a degree of realism. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 09:48 - May 17 with 655 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 11:47 - Apr 19 by Herbivore |
Indeed. And actually our emissions on a per capita rather than absolute basis are still comparatively high even with the outsourcing we do. |
I get the per capita point as one of fairness. But ultimately the planet doesn’t care about how much we pollute per person - only total emissions are going to have any impact. Thus until China, USA, and India make substantial reductions we are ultimately doomed.
That’s not an argument that we shouldn’t do better in the UK. We should buy less pointless Sh1t made in China from Amazon, and not fly off for multiple ski trips a year. But ultimately, even if we hit net zero in the UK it’s a futile exercise, despots like Putin, Xi and those in the Middle East will do what they want. | | | |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 21:30 - May 17 with 521 views | DJR |
| Mmmmm, Wotsits. Yum. (n/t) on 09:30 - May 17 by wkj |
That is a bit of a blinkered view perpetuated by petrolheads.
In the UK that means a charge of an EV sources from a grid that generates 40% of it's power from fossil fuel, 31% from renewables, 15% from nuclear and 14% from biofuel and other
A tank of petrol is 100% fossil fuel.
While yes, the batteries cost carbon to make, so too does regular car parts. Not to mention the oil on the road that seeps into natural ecosystems when the rain runs off of the road, and not to mention he carcinogenic fumes we breath from fumes and smog being expelled at our level vs processing plants that expel them many many feet above mouth level.
Are EV's environmentally friendly? No.
Are they impactfully friendlier on the environment than fossil fuel vehicles? Yes.
Besides, technology will change and evolve and the production of batteries and parts will become greener.
So there is very much a use having EV if it reduces fossil fuel usage from 100% to 40% [Post edited 17 May 2023 9:37]
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My understanding is that bioenergy is that produced from the burning of wood pellets, which gives off CO2.
Whilst supposedly a renewable energy source, there is some controversy about how green it is.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/30/wood-pellets-biomass-environ
So if you add bioenergy to fossil fuels, that gives you 51% not really green. | | | |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 00:08 - May 18 with 484 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Just Stop Oil have bugg3red the snooker up.... on 09:48 - May 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I get the per capita point as one of fairness. But ultimately the planet doesn’t care about how much we pollute per person - only total emissions are going to have any impact. Thus until China, USA, and India make substantial reductions we are ultimately doomed.
That’s not an argument that we shouldn’t do better in the UK. We should buy less pointless Sh1t made in China from Amazon, and not fly off for multiple ski trips a year. But ultimately, even if we hit net zero in the UK it’s a futile exercise, despots like Putin, Xi and those in the Middle East will do what they want. |
I agree that we should strive for better things as a country, we can't walk the walk without doing the best we can - but ultimately we could go net zero tomorrow and it would make less than 1% difference.
India has recently taken over China as the most populated country on earth and they don't really give a monkeys. I have no knowledge of how bad it is so I can't comment - but I'm guessing it's off the scale.
China - Well, you now have mega city's colliding with each other to make mega mega city's. Guangzhou and Shenzhen (and other villages bigger than London) have almost become one grey block now, the population of this block is about 50m
The above is just one example of a small area in the south of China. Only 30 years ago Shenzhen was a small fishing town.
Tell you what, if you visit from time to time you cannot believe the rate of expansion, you genuinely look at it and think - we cannot stop this mess.
Ultimately I think we are screwed. How much longer have we left? Well, I have been told since I can remember that I'm gonna get frozen or fried (It changes year to year.)
I'm gonna guess at 1000 years - although ultimately I think it will be man that finds the solution to the warming thing.
Can we though go 1000 years without nuclear annihilation - I doubt it.
I think we are looking in the wrong place baby.
Whatever is the result - I doubt the orange powder tossers will have a say in the matter. IMHO of course.
It's all a load of sh1t really, quite laughable in fact. Not that it's a laughing matter. [Post edited 18 May 2023 0:13]
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