| Just Stop Oil 11:38 - May 25 with 12192 views | GeoffSentence |
Have done the Chelsea Flower Show now.
Is Nothing Sacred?
Edit: Just seen that Keno has done this already. [Post edited 25 May 2023 11:45]
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:15 - May 26 with 1161 views | Herbivore |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:12 - May 26 by giant_stow |
Both Dan and Lowhouse are right. Dan for his point about lobbying and oil companies doing whatever they can to keep the show on the road. Lowhouse for pointing out that without demand, there'd be no oil companies and that putting the tab for emissions solely on them is a nonsense.
Edit: I'm available for further rulings should they be required. yours, judge ullaa, [Post edited 26 May 2023 10:13]
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No, I make Dan right. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:15 - May 26 with 1162 views | J2BLUE |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:06 - May 26 by lowhouseblue |
it doesn't occur to you that in repeatedly posting the same cartoon you might be the smart arse in the well? |
It makes no sense in this context either.
We're told this is an extinction level threat and the protesters are freedom fighters (not saying this isn't true, just making a point) yet people continue to make choices which add to the problem when alternatives are available.
Just don't point it out. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:18 - May 26 with 1151 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:08 - May 26 by Herbivore |
You're right, companies and governments are just innocent slaves of consumers. How silly of us to think otherwise. |
where did i mention slaves. most of the things consumer in the west enjoy doing - the lifestyles people choose and which gives meaning to their lives, depend on the products produced by industry. travel, holidays, flying, production of consumer goods, transport and delivery of consumer goods, variety of goods, communicating, consuming social media and entertainment. those things have high emissions in order to enable their consumption. in large complex societies, industry, and oil companies, are the structures which enable us to consume what we choose.
but i'm sure you're different and if you fly it's purely on the basis of hot air. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:22 - May 26 with 1124 views | Herbivore |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:18 - May 26 by lowhouseblue |
where did i mention slaves. most of the things consumer in the west enjoy doing - the lifestyles people choose and which gives meaning to their lives, depend on the products produced by industry. travel, holidays, flying, production of consumer goods, transport and delivery of consumer goods, variety of goods, communicating, consuming social media and entertainment. those things have high emissions in order to enable their consumption. in large complex societies, industry, and oil companies, are the structures which enable us to consume what we choose.
but i'm sure you're different and if you fly it's purely on the basis of hot air. |
You've got this entirely arse about face, as usual. Keep shouting at the pigeons. [Post edited 26 May 2023 10:23]
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:23 - May 26 with 1117 views | giant_stow |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:15 - May 26 by Herbivore |
No, I make Dan right. |
My ruling is final. |  |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:24 - May 26 with 1111 views | Herbivore |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:23 - May 26 by giant_stow |
My ruling is final. |
You support Norwich, your judgement can't be relied upon. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:24 - May 26 with 1111 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:11 - May 26 by DanTheMan |
"to be clear, they do what they do because there is insatiable consumer demand for what they produce"
No, they do what they do because it makes them profit. They didn't run campaigns disparaging climate science because that's what the consumers were clamouring for. You make it sound like their decisions are just made in a vacuum where they are entirely slaves to consumers. They literally knew what they were doing was wrong and not only did they go ahead and do it anyway, and lied about what they were doing and tried to convince everyone else that there wasn't a problem. |
that's a cop out. no one makes a profit by producing stuff people don't want. if demand is elastic you make more profit by selling it cheaper. everything oil companies have done fits into that logic. writing consumers out of the story is silly. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:25 - May 26 with 1099 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:22 - May 26 by Herbivore |
You've got this entirely arse about face, as usual. Keep shouting at the pigeons. [Post edited 26 May 2023 10:23]
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but you can't actually engage in the argument. you seem too willing to adopt the role of the pigeon. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:26 - May 26 with 1095 views | giant_stow |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:24 - May 26 by Herbivore |
You support Norwich, your judgement can't be relied upon. |
I'm a fair judge, but anymore of that and I'll find you in Contempt. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:28 - May 26 with 1077 views | J2BLUE |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:24 - May 26 by Herbivore |
You support Norwich, your judgement can't be relied upon. |
He's clearly a Town fan. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:29 - May 26 with 1071 views | DanTheMan |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:24 - May 26 by lowhouseblue |
that's a cop out. no one makes a profit by producing stuff people don't want. if demand is elastic you make more profit by selling it cheaper. everything oil companies have done fits into that logic. writing consumers out of the story is silly. |
I realise that they were making a profit producing something that people wanted. What I am saying is that does not mean that the consumers are to blame when fossil fuel companies collectively chose to lie about the damage they knew full well was occurring.
These companies make whopping profits so if they decided that they needed to plow that money into solving the issues then we might be in a much better place. But we aren't because they instead chose option B which is to lie to consumers, lobby Governments to avoid taxes (that they could afford to pay) and continue not to invest anything other than comparatively paltry sums in green alternatives.
Right now the consumers are crying out for green alternatives. Weird how we're not seeing a seismic shift in their priorities isn't it? |  |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:29 - May 26 with 1069 views | giant_stow |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:28 - May 26 by J2BLUE |
He's clearly a Town fan. |
GUARDS, SEND HIM DOWN!! | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:30 - May 26 with 1068 views | Herbivore |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:25 - May 26 by lowhouseblue |
but you can't actually engage in the argument. you seem too willing to adopt the role of the pigeon. |
When you seemingly can't even grasp the extent to which individuals' choices are shaped and even dictated by the actions (and inactions) of governments and large corporations then it's hard to see how trying to have a debate with you would be a good use of my time. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:31 - May 26 with 1064 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Just Stop Oil on 22:40 - May 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Have to say Swansea, to be fair I agree to an extent, they are fully aware of plastics and stuff. Although as a company we are trying to go more eco anyway they aren't keen on producing with loads of plastic. Well they are but it has to be a certain type of plastic.
However, they are still buying all the coal they can get their hands on from Australia and Africa, in fact China pretty much owns Africa now, literally.
........and the power they use is just off the scale |
Indeed there are over 1,000 coal power plants in operation in China. Over a thousand! And they are still building them to keep up with energy demands.
In Germany more gas plants were built to make up the shortfall from closing their nuclear plants post Fukushima. Last year the EU deemed gas a ‘green’ energy to encourage nations away from burning coal.
Global gas consumption is increasing year on year despite net zero commitments and the war Ukraine and is projected to continue rising at least in the short term (IEA). Sorry to be bleak! |  | | |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:31 - May 26 with 1063 views | J2BLUE |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:29 - May 26 by giant_stow |
GUARDS, SEND HIM DOWN!! |
What, to Planet Blue? Fancy a new shirt do you? Or is it a Chappers mug you want? Stop resisting mate. It's over. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:31 - May 26 with 1058 views | Herbivore |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:28 - May 26 by J2BLUE |
He's clearly a Town fan. |
You can be savage when you want to be. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:33 - May 26 with 1055 views | Ryorry |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:24 - May 26 by lowhouseblue |
that's a cop out. no one makes a profit by producing stuff people don't want. if demand is elastic you make more profit by selling it cheaper. everything oil companies have done fits into that logic. writing consumers out of the story is silly. |
People need alternatives though, and in the UK it was governments that chose not to invest in alternatives, eg renewables, but to keep supporting the fossil fuel industries (because they had vested interests in them). |  |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:36 - May 26 with 1039 views | Herbivore |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:33 - May 26 by Ryorry |
People need alternatives though, and in the UK it was governments that chose not to invest in alternatives, eg renewables, but to keep supporting the fossil fuel industries (because they had vested interests in them). |
Successive governments have also seen us have one it the most expensive and least reliable public transport networks in Europe. And whilst they are offering some incentives the switch to things like air source heat pumps, even with the incentive it's still about three to four times as costly as getting a gas boiler. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:46 - May 26 with 1026 views | giant_stow |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:29 - May 26 by DanTheMan |
I realise that they were making a profit producing something that people wanted. What I am saying is that does not mean that the consumers are to blame when fossil fuel companies collectively chose to lie about the damage they knew full well was occurring.
These companies make whopping profits so if they decided that they needed to plow that money into solving the issues then we might be in a much better place. But we aren't because they instead chose option B which is to lie to consumers, lobby Governments to avoid taxes (that they could afford to pay) and continue not to invest anything other than comparatively paltry sums in green alternatives.
Right now the consumers are crying out for green alternatives. Weird how we're not seeing a seismic shift in their priorities isn't it? |
Consumers have agency and although oil companies have lied in the past, we have known for decades about these lies, but still choose ever bigger gas guzzling cars, multiple flights each year and to eat meat. None of us *has* to do these things - indeed plenty of us have no choice but to avoid these things out of a lack of wealth (ahem!). This is why I think the blame and carbon usage tab is shared, but do take your points about the lack of morality in Oil company behavior - I guess that returns us to the faillings of capitalism's profit-motive. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 10:47 - May 26 with 1025 views | giant_stow |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:31 - May 26 by Herbivore |
You can be savage when you want to be. |
hes a big meanie when he gets his claws out, for sure. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 11:04 - May 26 with 991 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:30 - May 26 by Herbivore |
When you seemingly can't even grasp the extent to which individuals' choices are shaped and even dictated by the actions (and inactions) of governments and large corporations then it's hard to see how trying to have a debate with you would be a good use of my time. |
you're just passing the buck. the life style in the west - which we all willing choose - has only been possible because of oil companies. consumers have agency and make choices and they buy the things that enable them to live the way they want to. i would go as far as to say that even for you the most significant things in your life have probably been enabled by oil companies - the places you've been, the people you've met (other than on foot), the events you've attended, the place you've lived, the things you've used and enjoyed. even following itfc is enabled by oil companies.
why is that when it comes to veganism you see agency / responsibility / choice at the point of consumption - but when it comes to consuming oil you reject all that and say it's just in the power of the producer? is it because you don't want to eat meat but you do want to keep consuming oil and all the benefits that come with that? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just Stop Oil on 11:08 - May 26 with 968 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:33 - May 26 by Ryorry |
People need alternatives though, and in the UK it was governments that chose not to invest in alternatives, eg renewables, but to keep supporting the fossil fuel industries (because they had vested interests in them). |
absolutely government needs to take the lead. alternatives need to be forced through to the point that they evolve to do everything people take for granted from oil. but while alternatives are more expensive and less convenient and involve people changing how they behave people choose not to use them. does everyone who was supporting the just stop oil protect drive an electric car - no of course not. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just Stop Oil on 12:48 - May 26 with 884 views | Herbivore |
| Just Stop Oil on 11:04 - May 26 by lowhouseblue |
you're just passing the buck. the life style in the west - which we all willing choose - has only been possible because of oil companies. consumers have agency and make choices and they buy the things that enable them to live the way they want to. i would go as far as to say that even for you the most significant things in your life have probably been enabled by oil companies - the places you've been, the people you've met (other than on foot), the events you've attended, the place you've lived, the things you've used and enjoyed. even following itfc is enabled by oil companies.
why is that when it comes to veganism you see agency / responsibility / choice at the point of consumption - but when it comes to consuming oil you reject all that and say it's just in the power of the producer? is it because you don't want to eat meat but you do want to keep consuming oil and all the benefits that come with that? |
Tell me how one can live a life that involves zero consumption of fossil fuels. It's not an option. And your post still suggests you have no real clue about how the relationship between consumers, businesses and governments actually works. | |
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| Just Stop Oil on 13:18 - May 26 with 852 views | lowhouseblue |
| Just Stop Oil on 12:48 - May 26 by Herbivore |
Tell me how one can live a life that involves zero consumption of fossil fuels. It's not an option. And your post still suggests you have no real clue about how the relationship between consumers, businesses and governments actually works. |
you can consume less - for example by not flying regularly. life without fossil fuel in the west would be extremely difficult - life using much less fossil fuel is perfectly possible if consumers make those choices. have those supporting just stop oil made those choices? the relationship between consumption and production is very straightforward and very direct. oil companies only exist because we consume oil.
anyway, i'm going to follow your logic and, since i have never slaughtered an animal or milked a cow, declare myself to be a vegan. i eat meat, but those farmers are absolutely nothing to do with me. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Just Stop Oil on 13:48 - May 26 with 794 views | nodge_blue |
| Just Stop Oil on 10:23 - May 26 by giant_stow |
My ruling is final. |
Why have you changed your name? |  |
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