| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? 07:30 - Oct 5 with 4003 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/05/evergrande-the-runaway-develope
As an aside, a Chinese property giant called 'Country Garden' .....you couldn't make it up.
"Since regulations were tightened in 2020, companies responsible for about 40% of Chinese home sales have defaulted, and another major firm, Country Garden, has also battled to avoid missing massive debt repayments, raising the prospect of the risk of contagion." |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 07:33 - Oct 5 with 2565 views | GlasgowBlue |
How would you feel if it did? |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 07:56 - Oct 5 with 2507 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 07:33 - Oct 5 by GlasgowBlue |
How would you feel if it did? |
It's been a long wait but inevitable! A reset is entirely necessary whereby those with the most lose the most for any of us to have a long term future. This could have been managed but they exert too much influence on our policy makers. Delaying the inevitable will only have increased the pain and our so called leaders will have a lot to answer for.
How long do you want our collective madness to go on and how do you feel about the prospect of it doing so?
Edit....you forgot to say whether you think it's coming.... (again!) [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:12]
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:02 - Oct 5 with 2486 views | BlueBadger |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 07:56 - Oct 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's been a long wait but inevitable! A reset is entirely necessary whereby those with the most lose the most for any of us to have a long term future. This could have been managed but they exert too much influence on our policy makers. Delaying the inevitable will only have increased the pain and our so called leaders will have a lot to answer for.
How long do you want our collective madness to go on and how do you feel about the prospect of it doing so?
Edit....you forgot to say whether you think it's coming.... (again!) [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:12]
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'Some of you will die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make' |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:05 - Oct 5 with 2468 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:02 - Oct 5 by BlueBadger |
'Some of you will die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make' |
You haven’t answered the question either?
Also that isn't what I said. The inevitable could have been managed but our 'leaders' have decided to try and push on string/kick the can down the road while the public have stuck their heads in the sand.
Edit...or perhaps you just prefer long, drawn out deaths? [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:07]
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:10 - Oct 5 with 2450 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:02 - Oct 5 by BlueBadger |
'Some of you will die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make' |
Interesting to see Stokie (via the medium of uppies) allowing emotion to top trump logic....I guess he must have a lot to lose/feel wedded to business as usual please? | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:17 - Oct 5 with 2420 views | nodge_blue |
I think there’s a chance, yes. But I’m not sure it’s a good thing. I’m not sure something like the Great Depression was a good thing. Poverty and hardship hit every layer of society, not just the rich.
Big recessions affect everyone. More austerity etc. I just don’t see how it’s to be welcomed. This will be a debt fuelled recession if it comes so public borrowing our way out of it may be impossible. It’s not just big companies in China that have borrowed hugely, it’s countries like ourselves and USA and well everyone. UK plc will be in the poo and that means much less money for public services etc. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:24]
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:18 - Oct 5 with 2415 views | Herbivore |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 07:56 - Oct 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's been a long wait but inevitable! A reset is entirely necessary whereby those with the most lose the most for any of us to have a long term future. This could have been managed but they exert too much influence on our policy makers. Delaying the inevitable will only have increased the pain and our so called leaders will have a lot to answer for.
How long do you want our collective madness to go on and how do you feel about the prospect of it doing so?
Edit....you forgot to say whether you think it's coming.... (again!) [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:12]
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Economic crashes generally disproportionately affect the worst off in society. |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:20 - Oct 5 with 2401 views | BlueBadger |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:18 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Economic crashes generally disproportionately affect the worst off in society. |
Come on now, remember the last 13 years when the Tories have gone al out to ensure that our eternally picked-on billionaires not only survived but prospered? | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:22 - Oct 5 with 2368 views | StokieBlue |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:10 - Oct 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Interesting to see Stokie (via the medium of uppies) allowing emotion to top trump logic....I guess he must have a lot to lose/feel wedded to business as usual please? |
Not really, I just don't think your posting is as altruistic as you make out, it seems to me that it tends to always be towards something that will benefit you regardless of what happens to others on the way.
For instance, your continually talking up of a property crash which would leave millions of not well off people in negative equity and struggling to have somewhere to live whilst it would likely bring the price down to something you deem acceptable and you would buy.
In said scenario that you talk up, lots lose but you would likely win. I very rarely see any concern or mention of those non-wealthy people who would lose out. I up voted Badgers post as it highlighted this point quite well.
As an aside, people are allowed to upvote posts. It wasn't even one of yours so seems rather weird and obsessive to call someone out for voting on a post which wasn't even yours.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:25 - Oct 5 with 2344 views | giant_stow |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:18 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Economic crashes generally disproportionately affect the worst off in society. |
I'd be interested to know why Bankster thinks this one would be different.... |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:39 - Oct 5 with 2302 views | Darth_Koont |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:18 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Economic crashes generally disproportionately affect the worst off in society. |
Agreed. I think that’s mostly down to a belief that companies are too important to fail and therefore the measures taken in the event of an economic crash are predominantly about propping them up. So the cycle — and the widening inequality — continues.
But that’s still kicking the can down the road.
Although it could be more efficient and fairer, I don’t see any real problem with the underlying framework of the global economy and the needed opportunities and benefits that it gives developing economies and societies. The big problem is what is happening with developed economies and the large corporations that can then dominate globally. For want of a better analogy, these companies are “juiced” with increasing financialisation and “market valuations” that bear less and less relation to actual performance and value generated. I’d say these companies are more value suckers these days boosting profits and shareholder returns on their own terms and in their own interests. None of which is sustainable in the long term without bailouts.
We are at a point where we could and should be looking at how the economy serves the wider population and the health of society. “Good for business, good for society” doesn’t actually work that well in practice and, as you say, the negative effects disproportionately affect the worst off and the positive effects disproportionately disappear into a minority’s already flush pockets. |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:48 - Oct 5 with 2261 views | nodge_blue |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:39 - Oct 5 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed. I think that’s mostly down to a belief that companies are too important to fail and therefore the measures taken in the event of an economic crash are predominantly about propping them up. So the cycle — and the widening inequality — continues.
But that’s still kicking the can down the road.
Although it could be more efficient and fairer, I don’t see any real problem with the underlying framework of the global economy and the needed opportunities and benefits that it gives developing economies and societies. The big problem is what is happening with developed economies and the large corporations that can then dominate globally. For want of a better analogy, these companies are “juiced” with increasing financialisation and “market valuations” that bear less and less relation to actual performance and value generated. I’d say these companies are more value suckers these days boosting profits and shareholder returns on their own terms and in their own interests. None of which is sustainable in the long term without bailouts.
We are at a point where we could and should be looking at how the economy serves the wider population and the health of society. “Good for business, good for society” doesn’t actually work that well in practice and, as you say, the negative effects disproportionately affect the worst off and the positive effects disproportionately disappear into a minority’s already flush pockets. |
That’s fine except there is a problem with the underlying framework of the global economy. It too is propped up and ridden with trillions of pounds of debt. Debt repayments in interest are now our second biggest spend behind the NHS. If further faith is lost in UK plc ability to pay debt (possibly because of a big recession), then debt becomes even harder to obtain without agreeing to pay even higher rates of interest.
Then you’re into trying not to increase debt and cuts to public services. Everyone paying higher tax. More inflation.
Possible scenarios for societal breakdown and rise of extremism like Nazi party in their depression.
The idea that you divorce all this and it’s a thing that happens to rich billionaires is misguided. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:52]
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:59 - Oct 5 with 2200 views | Darth_Koont |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:48 - Oct 5 by nodge_blue |
That’s fine except there is a problem with the underlying framework of the global economy. It too is propped up and ridden with trillions of pounds of debt. Debt repayments in interest are now our second biggest spend behind the NHS. If further faith is lost in UK plc ability to pay debt (possibly because of a big recession), then debt becomes even harder to obtain without agreeing to pay even higher rates of interest.
Then you’re into trying not to increase debt and cuts to public services. Everyone paying higher tax. More inflation.
Possible scenarios for societal breakdown and rise of extremism like Nazi party in their depression.
The idea that you divorce all this and it’s a thing that happens to rich billionaires is misguided. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:52]
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I’m not divorcing this at all. I’m talking about a failing system under “normal” times where extremism and societal breakdown are happening anyway. Of course, this is accelerated when the economy has its customary downturn or indeed crash.
Re: debt, most of our government debt has been created over the past 15 years while the man in the street has just been squeezed by above-inflation price rises for essentials like housing, energy and food coupled with wage stagnation. And forced to take on debt themselves as part of living in such a society.
If that is perceived as normal or desirable then we have to change our approach. That’s before we even get to the sustainability issues for the environment and human health and happiness. | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:02 - Oct 5 with 2195 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:18 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Economic crashes generally disproportionately affect the worst off in society. |
What has that got to do with anything.....are you suggesting we just continue with debt to infinity because......well, growth to infinity/for ever. This is the ultimate Stockholm syndrome that most of you are displaying imho.
However I was more interested in whether the broad spectrum of folk on this forum sense a severe shock is around the corner? | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:07 - Oct 5 with 2167 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:48 - Oct 5 by nodge_blue |
That’s fine except there is a problem with the underlying framework of the global economy. It too is propped up and ridden with trillions of pounds of debt. Debt repayments in interest are now our second biggest spend behind the NHS. If further faith is lost in UK plc ability to pay debt (possibly because of a big recession), then debt becomes even harder to obtain without agreeing to pay even higher rates of interest.
Then you’re into trying not to increase debt and cuts to public services. Everyone paying higher tax. More inflation.
Possible scenarios for societal breakdown and rise of extremism like Nazi party in their depression.
The idea that you divorce all this and it’s a thing that happens to rich billionaires is misguided. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:52]
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Countries owe each other Trillions. China & Japan, between them , hold nearly $2T of US debt. U.K. holds well over $500B.
European countries hold significantly less.
You have to wonder if this sell off of Bonds has anything to do with China and an attempt to destabilise. |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:09 - Oct 5 with 2164 views | Herbivore |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:02 - Oct 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What has that got to do with anything.....are you suggesting we just continue with debt to infinity because......well, growth to infinity/for ever. This is the ultimate Stockholm syndrome that most of you are displaying imho.
However I was more interested in whether the broad spectrum of folk on this forum sense a severe shock is around the corner? |
Seems Stokie has it right that you're more about self interest than caring about the least fortunate. That's a shame. | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:09 - Oct 5 with 2161 views | nodge_blue |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:59 - Oct 5 by Darth_Koont |
I’m not divorcing this at all. I’m talking about a failing system under “normal” times where extremism and societal breakdown are happening anyway. Of course, this is accelerated when the economy has its customary downturn or indeed crash.
Re: debt, most of our government debt has been created over the past 15 years while the man in the street has just been squeezed by above-inflation price rises for essentials like housing, energy and food coupled with wage stagnation. And forced to take on debt themselves as part of living in such a society.
If that is perceived as normal or desirable then we have to change our approach. That’s before we even get to the sustainability issues for the environment and human health and happiness. |
If you’re not divorcing it, then I don’t see how you can welcome such a reset. As it won’t just be the big companies that fail. It will be countries too. And maybe because this would be about debt, in a way that is entirely unpleasant for everyone. | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:11 - Oct 5 with 2156 views | nodge_blue |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:07 - Oct 5 by Pinewoodblue |
Countries owe each other Trillions. China & Japan, between them , hold nearly $2T of US debt. U.K. holds well over $500B.
European countries hold significantly less.
You have to wonder if this sell off of Bonds has anything to do with China and an attempt to destabilise. |
Their was something I read about ten years ago to the affect that China would never have to declare war on the US, it just needs to ask for its money back. | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:12 - Oct 5 with 2147 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:22 - Oct 5 by StokieBlue |
Not really, I just don't think your posting is as altruistic as you make out, it seems to me that it tends to always be towards something that will benefit you regardless of what happens to others on the way.
For instance, your continually talking up of a property crash which would leave millions of not well off people in negative equity and struggling to have somewhere to live whilst it would likely bring the price down to something you deem acceptable and you would buy.
In said scenario that you talk up, lots lose but you would likely win. I very rarely see any concern or mention of those non-wealthy people who would lose out. I up voted Badgers post as it highlighted this point quite well.
As an aside, people are allowed to upvote posts. It wasn't even one of yours so seems rather weird and obsessive to call someone out for voting on a post which wasn't even yours.
SB |
I have a sneaky suspicion that family Slave might be 'suffering' more than family Stokie!
Properties are somewhere to live not stores of wealth/financial assets. It is financial institutions that lose the most as their notional balance sheets would be toast....as they would be too. If on the way down these people try to evict folk from their homes I will be there helping to fight off the bailiffs, I'll see you there!
So, do you sense a crash coming or not. | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:15 - Oct 5 with 2132 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:09 - Oct 5 by Herbivore |
Seems Stokie has it right that you're more about self interest than caring about the least fortunate. That's a shame. |
Now you're just being stupid. | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:17 - Oct 5 with 2103 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 08:17 - Oct 5 by nodge_blue |
I think there’s a chance, yes. But I’m not sure it’s a good thing. I’m not sure something like the Great Depression was a good thing. Poverty and hardship hit every layer of society, not just the rich.
Big recessions affect everyone. More austerity etc. I just don’t see how it’s to be welcomed. This will be a debt fuelled recession if it comes so public borrowing our way out of it may be impossible. It’s not just big companies in China that have borrowed hugely, it’s countries like ourselves and USA and well everyone. UK plc will be in the poo and that means much less money for public services etc. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 8:24]
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The problem is that after the great depression we just emerged with more of the same.....a reset is inevitable and sensible leaders would have been preparing a reset for decades not looking after their paymasters! | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:30 - Oct 5 with 2062 views | nodge_blue |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:17 - Oct 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The problem is that after the great depression we just emerged with more of the same.....a reset is inevitable and sensible leaders would have been preparing a reset for decades not looking after their paymasters! |
There's a novel call the mandibles by Lionel Shriver. You should read that.
A brief and slightly inaccurate summary is:
1. Debt fuelled recession. Where borrowing is huge and suddenly the market freezes because no one wants to lend anymore because they don't believe they will get their money back.
2. All the rich companies and billionaire go bust over night.
3. Month later countries cant pay their public services and all the police, hospital staff, armed forces, bin men stop working over night as they don't get paid. Bit like footballers not getting paid on a bigger scale lol.
4. All society collapses. Riots. No food in shops. People evicting their neighbours from their houses cos they fancy them for themselves.
The whole thing is a house of cards. There is no billionaire card you can pull out from the pile and hope the whole thing stays upright. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 9:34]
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:32 - Oct 5 with 2053 views | Guthrum |
The Chinese property market is not the global economy (it's a very naughty boy).
Yes, if the Chinese economy goes wrong (insofar as a government-controlled, command economy can), there will be less infrastructure investment in some parts of the world - particularly Africa - but there also won't be the resource grabbing and geopolitical strings attached.
The fall of the Soviet Union's economy in the 1970s and '80s didn't lead to global collapse, far from it. |  |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:38 - Oct 5 with 2017 views | nodge_blue |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:32 - Oct 5 by Guthrum |
The Chinese property market is not the global economy (it's a very naughty boy).
Yes, if the Chinese economy goes wrong (insofar as a government-controlled, command economy can), there will be less infrastructure investment in some parts of the world - particularly Africa - but there also won't be the resource grabbing and geopolitical strings attached.
The fall of the Soviet Union's economy in the 1970s and '80s didn't lead to global collapse, far from it. |
That's true. I think some of the points raised though is that is smells of debt problems.
A bit like the sub prime property market in the US was what looks like a contained thing.
But it becomes a trigger. | |
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| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:39 - Oct 5 with 2017 views | WeWereZombies |
| Anybody else think the global economy is about to go pop? on 09:17 - Oct 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The problem is that after the great depression we just emerged with more of the same.....a reset is inevitable and sensible leaders would have been preparing a reset for decades not looking after their paymasters! |
Your reliance on leaders is very touching... |  |
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