| Big big problem 17:26 - Feb 4 with 3424 views | Wickets |
KM simply must address the fact that we just keep conceding an early goal or the first goal and in doing so give ourselves a mountain to climb . Does not matter if we are playing Leicester Preston or Maidstone we simply cannot keep blaming the match officials we must sort this out . Hopefully starting next Saturday. |  | | |  |
| Big big problem on 17:36 - Feb 4 with 2763 views | jayessess |
Think "early or first" is a weird way of stating the problem. Early goals, sure, you can make a case that you need to change what you're doing in terms of mindset or tactics for the first fifteen or so.
First? Leicester scored in the 31st, Maidstone in the 43rd. Can't see how that comes as a special category of goal to concede, to be separated from our normal defensive work. |  |
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| Big big problem on 17:43 - Feb 4 with 2723 views | PhilTWTD |
| Big big problem on 17:36 - Feb 4 by jayessess |
Think "early or first" is a weird way of stating the problem. Early goals, sure, you can make a case that you need to change what you're doing in terms of mindset or tactics for the first fifteen or so.
First? Leicester scored in the 31st, Maidstone in the 43rd. Can't see how that comes as a special category of goal to concede, to be separated from our normal defensive work. |
No one in the division has conceded more in the opening 15 minutes than us, I believe. |  | | |
| Big big problem on 17:46 - Feb 4 with 2699 views | Wickets |
| Big big problem on 17:36 - Feb 4 by jayessess |
Think "early or first" is a weird way of stating the problem. Early goals, sure, you can make a case that you need to change what you're doing in terms of mindset or tactics for the first fifteen or so.
First? Leicester scored in the 31st, Maidstone in the 43rd. Can't see how that comes as a special category of goal to concede, to be separated from our normal defensive work. |
Maybe but the problem is still there , most managers will say the first goal is very important and we so often seem to concede it and often inside the first 15 minutes. | | | |
| Big big problem on 17:48 - Feb 4 with 2690 views | berkstractorboy |
How does KM mitigate the 'you're going to get fouled' so in case of that we'll double up with defenders early doors and not take the game to the opposition but just make sure we don't concede. |  | | |
| Big big problem on 17:52 - Feb 4 with 2646 views | pointofblue |
I'm sure he has been trying to solve it but it's an 'easier said than done' situation. Are we holding something in reserve at the start to have energy in the second half, so perhaps do not press so hard in the early on? As a collective, are we not as mentally sharp from kick off? Is it a slight tactical issue, and teams catch us out before McKenna can make adjustments? | |
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| Big big problem on 17:57 - Feb 4 with 2635 views | Wickets |
| Big big problem on 17:43 - Feb 4 by PhilTWTD |
No one in the division has conceded more in the opening 15 minutes than us, I believe. |
There you go !! | | | |
| Big big problem on 17:58 - Feb 4 with 2626 views | Basuco |
| Big big problem on 17:48 - Feb 4 by berkstractorboy |
How does KM mitigate the 'you're going to get fouled' so in case of that we'll double up with defenders early doors and not take the game to the opposition but just make sure we don't concede. |
Make that you are going to get fouled and a premier league referee fails to give a free kick. |  | | |
| Big big problem on 17:58 - Feb 4 with 2626 views | Wickets |
| Big big problem on 17:48 - Feb 4 by berkstractorboy |
How does KM mitigate the 'you're going to get fouled' so in case of that we'll double up with defenders early doors and not take the game to the opposition but just make sure we don't concede. |
Blame the Ref ? | | | |
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| Big big problem on 18:00 - Feb 4 with 2616 views | OldFart71 |
I think what needs to be found is why we are conceding. Is it player not concentrating, not being fully switched on when they go out on the pitch ? A couple of things I have noticed is how teams exploit the gap behind the fullbacks because they are bombing forward and leaving space in behind. Also Hladky has been guilty of some pretty horrendous passing out from the back, some have gone unpunished by a couple haven't and when you are already losing to concede another just makes it so hard to get back in the game. But then Walton doesn't seem to be able to play that type of game. Maybe with Moore now coming into the team it's time to change tactics and hit a few more long balls with the midfield picking them up that way rather than this playing out from the back. That doesn't mean you can never play from the back. If other teams see your goalie going long they may sit back, which allows the goalie to play short to the fullbacks. Maybe time for a goalkeeper change ? | | | |
| Big big problem on 18:01 - Feb 4 with 2606 views | Mullet |
| Big big problem on 17:43 - Feb 4 by PhilTWTD |
No one in the division has conceded more in the opening 15 minutes than us, I believe. |
9 in the first 10 mins of games to Rotherham's 8.
We've scored 11 in the first 20 and conceded 13 apparently. Slow starts is definitely an issue now, regardless of why. |  |
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| Big big problem on 18:02 - Feb 4 with 2593 views | nrb1985 |
| Big big problem on 17:46 - Feb 4 by Wickets |
Maybe but the problem is still there , most managers will say the first goal is very important and we so often seem to concede it and often inside the first 15 minutes. |
maybe too simplistic but he is such a softly spoken and mild mannered guy, that maybe he could do with channelling his inner Klopp a bit more in the pre match, to make sure we're fired up and ready to go from the off?
You can also imagine the more "old school" or expressive managers in the division getting their teams riled up in the changing room before games against us. "They don't like it up 'em" type of thing.
Just a theory but we do still seem to be half asleep when starting games and it happens so often I don't think it can be a coincidence. [Post edited 4 Feb 19:04]
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| Big big problem on 18:06 - Feb 4 with 2572 views | gainsboroughblue |
I'd be interested to see how many times we concede from chances or attacks too. Seems to be far too many.
Even last season in that Oct-Dec period, every speculative effort seemed to somehow end up in our net. |  |
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| Big big problem on 18:09 - Feb 4 with 2532 views | PhilTWTD |
| Big big problem on 18:01 - Feb 4 by Mullet |
9 in the first 10 mins of games to Rotherham's 8.
We've scored 11 in the first 20 and conceded 13 apparently. Slow starts is definitely an issue now, regardless of why. |
We almost conceded after 70 seconds yesterday. We're allowing teams to get up and running and dictate the game. | | | |
| Big big problem on 18:10 - Feb 4 with 2495 views | pointofblue |
| Big big problem on 18:09 - Feb 4 by PhilTWTD |
We almost conceded after 70 seconds yesterday. We're allowing teams to get up and running and dictate the game. |
Could that be a question in this week's press conference, Phil? See what McKenna's response is? | |
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| Big big problem on 18:11 - Feb 4 with 2484 views | Mullet |
| Big big problem on 18:09 - Feb 4 by PhilTWTD |
We almost conceded after 70 seconds yesterday. We're allowing teams to get up and running and dictate the game. |
Yep. I wondered if he might go Travis and Morsy in the middle given the battle PNE like to have there and cut off Millar and Keane essentially.
All easy to say now regarding selections etc. but I just think we were genuinely sh1te and didn't do anything we usually do, well. | |
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| Big big problem on 18:39 - Feb 4 with 2348 views | HighgateBlue |
| Big big problem on 18:02 - Feb 4 by nrb1985 |
maybe too simplistic but he is such a softly spoken and mild mannered guy, that maybe he could do with channelling his inner Klopp a bit more in the pre match, to make sure we're fired up and ready to go from the off?
You can also imagine the more "old school" or expressive managers in the division getting their teams riled up in the changing room before games against us. "They don't like it up 'em" type of thing.
Just a theory but we do still seem to be half asleep when starting games and it happens so often I don't think it can be a coincidence. [Post edited 4 Feb 19:04]
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That was the only theory I could come up with as well. KMac has been so great for this club and he is clearly an incredibly talented coach, but it may just be that this is a weakness in his armoury. The other side of the coin is that the level-headedness that he instils means that we don't panic and work our way back into game by plugging away. Maybe the other side has already got tired from a more 'blood and thunder' early start? Who knows.
But it's certainly odd for a team that has lost so few league games to have conceded so many goals at the beginning of games compared to all of our peers.
One thing's for sure - it's impossible that our coaching staff have not already noticed this. They will be working on it. |  | | |
| Big big problem on 19:02 - Feb 4 with 2259 views | NthQldITFC |
We play a really high risk style, both in terms of our player positions and spaces between, and our players' ball control-affecting factors (receiving in tight spaces, holding until really closed down to bait attackers, intricate flicks and touches). It's why we're so good at breaking fast and cutting teams to ribbons.
We are so calm and process-focussed and we don't get on each other's backs when it goes wrong which is all admirable. BUT do we go into that high risk mode too early in the game? Should we play a bit more safety first and conventional with regard to all those things above in the first 10-15 minutes?
I can understand the ethos of "let's be ready and brave and play our way from the first whistle, because that's who we are and that's how we impose ourselves and frighten our opponents". It worked well in League One and for large parts of this season, when the confidence was sky high. Perhaps we need to tone that back a little at the moment, and have a ten minute in-game warm up phase? |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Big big problem on 19:09 - Feb 4 with 2208 views | nrb1985 |
| Big big problem on 18:39 - Feb 4 by HighgateBlue |
That was the only theory I could come up with as well. KMac has been so great for this club and he is clearly an incredibly talented coach, but it may just be that this is a weakness in his armoury. The other side of the coin is that the level-headedness that he instils means that we don't panic and work our way back into game by plugging away. Maybe the other side has already got tired from a more 'blood and thunder' early start? Who knows.
But it's certainly odd for a team that has lost so few league games to have conceded so many goals at the beginning of games compared to all of our peers.
One thing's for sure - it's impossible that our coaching staff have not already noticed this. They will be working on it. |
maybe they also know that even if they make a mistake that it'll be an arm around the shoulder at HT too rather than tea cups flying against the wall.
Not an approach I'm in favour of at all btw because demonstrably, KM's approach is working miracles, but maybe on occasion there is a happy medium somewhere between the teacups and an arm around the shoulder.
As you say though, they will obviously be aware of the issue and working hard to solve it. | | | |
| Big big problem on 19:15 - Feb 4 with 2178 views | berkstractorboy |
| Big big problem on 17:58 - Feb 4 by Wickets |
Blame the Ref ? |
Yes if they miss foul. Why do you ignore that? After that foul there is like 2 seconds before Keane then shoots and it gets a deflection.
You are so full of wisdom, how do you deal with that as a manager and tell the team they shouldn't concede that goal?
I know not all the early goals are down to poor officiating, but that is the early goal fresh in our minds. Before that its weeks ago. [Post edited 4 Feb 19:16]
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| Big big problem on 19:24 - Feb 4 with 2125 views | FrimleyBlue |
Our organising in the beginning of games Is quite dreadful tbh. I think we try to go on the front foot in games but we aren't that successful at it and in turn we leave ourselves open.
Clarke takes a half to get going. Is that achilles related I don't know.
But also it took HT for KM to talk to the players before they changed what they did.
Are the players incapable of change without Kms input?
Morsy maybe skipper but is he organising things during games or just a playing his own game? |  |
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| Big big problem on 19:33 - Feb 4 with 2088 views | Wickets |
| Big big problem on 19:15 - Feb 4 by berkstractorboy |
Yes if they miss foul. Why do you ignore that? After that foul there is like 2 seconds before Keane then shoots and it gets a deflection.
You are so full of wisdom, how do you deal with that as a manager and tell the team they shouldn't concede that goal?
I know not all the early goals are down to poor officiating, but that is the early goal fresh in our minds. Before that its weeks ago. [Post edited 4 Feb 19:16]
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Maybe best to ignore Referring errors because there is nothing you can do about it . For me the manager will stick to what is in his control not what isn't. If you go on any fans forum after that team has lost you will see several posts claiming that the Ref cost them the game . It is boring and not right usually IMO . | | | |
| Big big problem on 19:35 - Feb 4 with 2066 views | PhilTWTD |
| Big big problem on 18:10 - Feb 4 by pointofblue |
Could that be a question in this week's press conference, Phil? See what McKenna's response is? |
Definitely something I'm sure KMc's looking to address. | | | |
| Big big problem on 19:42 - Feb 4 with 2014 views | berkstractorboy |
| Big big problem on 19:33 - Feb 4 by Wickets |
Maybe best to ignore Referring errors because there is nothing you can do about it . For me the manager will stick to what is in his control not what isn't. If you go on any fans forum after that team has lost you will see several posts claiming that the Ref cost them the game . It is boring and not right usually IMO . |
OK, ignore the ref error and answer the question what you thought the players could do differently on Sat.
The players thought Morsy was about to play the ball away but he couldn't as fouled. The ball goes through to a Preston player who passes to Keane. There is little time for CBs to close down Keane as they were on the back foot thinking it would be cleared. Keane takes a speculative long shot and its deflected in. I just don't see what you expect our players to do differently in that scenario.
How can you not think Sat the ref changed the course of that game as poor as we were early on? You are players possibly low on confidence from last weekend and in the first 10 mins you get goals given against you by poor officiating. How do you really think that would make you feel thats a huge kick in the nuts. | | | |
| Big big problem on 20:04 - Feb 4 with 1905 views | Whos_blue |
| Big big problem on 19:09 - Feb 4 by nrb1985 |
maybe they also know that even if they make a mistake that it'll be an arm around the shoulder at HT too rather than tea cups flying against the wall.
Not an approach I'm in favour of at all btw because demonstrably, KM's approach is working miracles, but maybe on occasion there is a happy medium somewhere between the teacups and an arm around the shoulder.
As you say though, they will obviously be aware of the issue and working hard to solve it. |
Maybe he could put one arm round the shoulder and throw a teacup with the other arm? That will cover all bases.
Well, maybe not a teacup, as it might break and injure someone. Perhaps a beaker? 🤷🏻♂️
I guess he'll work out what to do for the best. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Big big problem on 20:09 - Feb 4 with 1880 views | pointofblue |
When you look at conceding early goals (first 15 minutes), up to Saturday they had trailed off.
League only:
Game 4 - Leeds (H) Rutter 10, Gnonto 14 though Town had taken the lead
Game 8 - Blackburn (H) Sigurdsson 9 though Town had taken the lead
Game 13 - Plymouth (H) Whittaker 7
Game 14 - Birmingham (A) Stansfield 13
Game 15 - Rotherham (A) Nombe 4
Game 16 - Swansea (H) Fulton 7
Game 17 - West Brom (A) Furlong 5
Game 21 - Watford (A) Asprilla 12
Game 23 - Leeds (A) Struijk 8
Game 30 - Preston (A) Keane 5, Edmundson og 8
So we had five games in a row where we conceded in the first fifteen minutes, or in seven games out of eleven. But Saturday was the first time we conceded in the first 15 minutes in seven league games. And, outside of the run and the game at Deepdale, the other two occasions where we conceded early were after we had scored, so we had started fast.
Was Saturday an aberration on an issue we had seemingly improved upon? Let's hope so. | |
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