| That rotter Putin. on 10:09 - Dec 5 with 423 views | DJR |
| That rotter Putin. on 09:57 - Dec 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
The US and UK have provided significant training and armament to Ukraine since the invasion of Crimea - hence the original attempt at a blitzkreig to Kiev at the outset was unsuccessful (brave resistance of the Ukrainians aside). No doubt the credit is due to MoD rather than the Govt who of course continued to take Russian donations, and allow them to buy up half the London property market etc.
The original source was The Economist, though I read the arrival back in April so will need to dig it out. |
I am not sure about armaments. The following (from 2020/21) suggests it was primarily training.
https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishin
The relevant passages appear to be the following.
"Operation ORBITAL was launched in February 2015 in response to a request from the Ukrainian government to provide guidance and training to the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU). Our training is defensive in nature, conducted away from the conflict in the East and focuses on skills for which the Ukrainians have sought our assistance. These include medical, logistics, operational planning and general infantry skills. To date, British troops have trained over 18,000 members of the Armed Forces of Ukrainian (AFU), making a real difference and saving lives. To complement the support already provided, the UK is leading on a new Maritime Training Initiative, which commenced in September. This is a multinational effort by partners and allies to advance and enhance various aspects of Ukraine’s Navy"
"On 7 October 2020, the UK and Ukraine signed a Memorandum of Intent to develop and enhance Ukraine’s Navy, highlighting potential financing support from UK Export Finance. This will be manifested by the UK supporting Ukraine’s ship building capability in Mykolaiv, regenerating Ukraine’s naval base facilities on the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea, and assisting in the delivery of the capability requirement for the Ukrainian Navy’s Mosquito Flotilla." |  | |  |
| That rotter Putin. on 10:23 - Dec 5 with 401 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| That rotter Putin. on 10:09 - Dec 5 by DJR |
I am not sure about armaments. The following (from 2020/21) suggests it was primarily training.
https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishin
The relevant passages appear to be the following.
"Operation ORBITAL was launched in February 2015 in response to a request from the Ukrainian government to provide guidance and training to the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU). Our training is defensive in nature, conducted away from the conflict in the East and focuses on skills for which the Ukrainians have sought our assistance. These include medical, logistics, operational planning and general infantry skills. To date, British troops have trained over 18,000 members of the Armed Forces of Ukrainian (AFU), making a real difference and saving lives. To complement the support already provided, the UK is leading on a new Maritime Training Initiative, which commenced in September. This is a multinational effort by partners and allies to advance and enhance various aspects of Ukraine’s Navy"
"On 7 October 2020, the UK and Ukraine signed a Memorandum of Intent to develop and enhance Ukraine’s Navy, highlighting potential financing support from UK Export Finance. This will be manifested by the UK supporting Ukraine’s ship building capability in Mykolaiv, regenerating Ukraine’s naval base facilities on the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea, and assisting in the delivery of the capability requirement for the Ukrainian Navy’s Mosquito Flotilla." |
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/17/uk-supplying-ukraine-with-anti-
Granted this doesn’t date back to 2014 but still prior to the invasion. I’ll find the Economist article at lunch. I’m not sure Putin would have been overly pleased at UK boots on the ground training troops in the Ukraine.
As I say fairly sure credit is due to MoD. Whilst clearly it wasn’t enough to prevent the invasion, the performance of the Ukrainin military at the ouset was in stark contrast to 2014. And likewise at a time when the rest of Europe was filling it’s boots (and coffers in Moscow) with Russian gas.
Edit- posters like Churchman have a very knowledgeable and balanced view on the subject. [Post edited 5 Dec 2022 10:25]
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| That rotter Putin. (n/t) on 10:26 - Dec 5 with 400 views | DJR |
| That rotter Putin. on 10:23 - Dec 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/17/uk-supplying-ukraine-with-anti-
Granted this doesn’t date back to 2014 but still prior to the invasion. I’ll find the Economist article at lunch. I’m not sure Putin would have been overly pleased at UK boots on the ground training troops in the Ukraine.
As I say fairly sure credit is due to MoD. Whilst clearly it wasn’t enough to prevent the invasion, the performance of the Ukrainin military at the ouset was in stark contrast to 2014. And likewise at a time when the rest of Europe was filling it’s boots (and coffers in Moscow) with Russian gas.
Edit- posters like Churchman have a very knowledgeable and balanced view on the subject. [Post edited 5 Dec 2022 10:25]
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It certainly looks like that training (which I imagine other countries may have also offered) helped the Ukraine cause no end. [Post edited 5 Dec 2022 10:28]
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| That rotter Putin. (n/t) on 11:02 - Dec 5 with 380 views | DJR |
| That rotter Putin. (n/t) on 10:26 - Dec 5 by DJR |
It certainly looks like that training (which I imagine other countries may have also offered) helped the Ukraine cause no end. [Post edited 5 Dec 2022 10:28]
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Interestingly, the following article suggests that the Ukranians themselves should take much of the credit for the transformation of their armed forces since 2014.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/05/09/ukraine-military-2014-russia-us-training/ | | | |
| That rotter Putin. (n/t) on 11:18 - Dec 5 with 367 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
I’m sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle:-
“U.S. Special Operations Forces have also trained Ukrainian military forces. Leaders in Kyiv then assigned those soldiers to conventional units, allowing them in turn to train a larger portion of the army. American analysts say that training has made a difference on the battlefield.
“The United States has provided more than $3 billion in weapons, equipment and other supplies to Ukraine’s armed forces since 2014. In those eight years, U.S. military advisers, including Army Green Berets and National Guard troops, have trained more than 27,000 Ukrainian soldiers at the Yavoriv Combat Training Center near Lviv in western Ukraine.”
I’m surprised our resident Putin sympathiser hasn’t popped up from the other thread yet. Perhaps the server is down in Vladivostok. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. (n/t) on 11:38 - Dec 5 with 353 views | jeera |
| That rotter Putin. (n/t) on 11:18 - Dec 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I’m sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle:-
“U.S. Special Operations Forces have also trained Ukrainian military forces. Leaders in Kyiv then assigned those soldiers to conventional units, allowing them in turn to train a larger portion of the army. American analysts say that training has made a difference on the battlefield.
“The United States has provided more than $3 billion in weapons, equipment and other supplies to Ukraine’s armed forces since 2014. In those eight years, U.S. military advisers, including Army Green Berets and National Guard troops, have trained more than 27,000 Ukrainian soldiers at the Yavoriv Combat Training Center near Lviv in western Ukraine.”
I’m surprised our resident Putin sympathiser hasn’t popped up from the other thread yet. Perhaps the server is down in Vladivostok. |
Because he's finally been banned. |  |
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