| That rotter Putin. on 17:32 - Dec 4 with 1062 views | HARRY10 |
| That rotter Putin. on 16:27 - Dec 4 by DJR |
In my view, Brexit was won because of 30 years of anti-EU propaganda in the right-wing press, an effective right-wing media campaign, a very canny operator in Cummings and, most importantly of all, a "great" frontman and campaigner in the form of Johnson.
I said at the time Johnson opted for Brexit that I feared Leave would win, and this turned out to be the case.
Russia no doubt interfered (as many countries try to interfere in the affairs of other countries) but I think any influence it had was minimal. Indeed, the bizarre story that Channel 4 ran about Russian links to a mine that Aaron Banks had in South Africa turned out to be a red herring.
I speak as someone who campaigned on the streets for Remain, and saw at first hand the effect that the Johnson-led campaign had on people. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 16:30]
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I met one of my nephews not long afterwards - a very inexpensive do - in the next town.
It appeared that most had not voted before (20 somethings) but saw the referendim as their 'patriotic duty'. To say they hadn't a clue would be an understatement. I had become accustomed to brexiters having no idea what the EU commission or council are or do - or that they even exist. but the comments from this lot were beyonf naivety, Never going much beyond some Victor comic view of Europeans as all 'huns' and behaving as such.
Ludicrous guff followed, mostly on the lines of the EU banning hedgehog flavoured cucumbers etc. I had learned not to try to 'put them right', but listened to the almost absurd claims.
It is something I think most Remain voters have learned in the years since. Counter any nonsense with simple facts and watch the eyes sviwel left and right before being met with 'project fear.... baa baa'
This has now moved to a denial of voting brexit to 'we are out now so 'stop moaning and make the best of it'. However I don't recall any suggestion before the referendim that we would be struggling to 'make the best of it'.
Sadly for Putin and his paid lackeys, Farage, Le Pen, Johnson etc there has been no collapse of the EU as stated. No Frexit, Nexit, Grexit and i fear many involved in this scam will not be held to account,as with post war Germany. In many countries justice was instant and brutal. Those French who served with the SS were summarily shot when handed over to the French army, and tens of thousands of collaborators were also unceremonious 'dispatched. In Germany, it was those at the top subjected to a show trial while thousands of lesser types escaped justice.
I expected most Brexiters will adopt a 'I was only following orders' type of defence, claiming they were not to know habitual liars were lying to them, whilst groups as far apart the CBI and the TUC were telling them the truth. Farmers were supposed to have voted more for brexit than against. Despite the NUF president advising them against, and out-lining the dangers.
It is easy to look back at those mass rallies in Germany in the 30s or the Black Shirt marches in the UK, and wonder what on earth were they thinking.
Much the same as millions in the UK. They were not thinking, it is that simple answer. |  | |  |
| That rotter Putin. on 17:54 - Dec 4 with 1051 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 17:04 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Helping to create and creating are different things, ask Victoria Nuland.
Helping to create is a function of all global powers of course......sadly.
As far as the op goes relating to strikes it is obvious bs but the bs will be swallowed by many due to the background over egged narrative of Russian influence. |
Both sidesing Putin's attempted influence.
Not such a great look these days. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 17:57 - Dec 4 with 1043 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That rotter Putin. on 17:54 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
Both sidesing Putin's attempted influence.
Not such a great look these days. |
Facts is facts, who cares how things look? |  |
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| That rotter Putin. on 18:02 - Dec 4 with 1022 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 17:57 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Facts is facts, who cares how things look? |
Well, at least Putin's happy with the state of the US and UK, so that's all OK. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:05 - Dec 4 with 1020 views | DJR |
| That rotter Putin. on 17:32 - Dec 4 by HARRY10 |
I met one of my nephews not long afterwards - a very inexpensive do - in the next town.
It appeared that most had not voted before (20 somethings) but saw the referendim as their 'patriotic duty'. To say they hadn't a clue would be an understatement. I had become accustomed to brexiters having no idea what the EU commission or council are or do - or that they even exist. but the comments from this lot were beyonf naivety, Never going much beyond some Victor comic view of Europeans as all 'huns' and behaving as such.
Ludicrous guff followed, mostly on the lines of the EU banning hedgehog flavoured cucumbers etc. I had learned not to try to 'put them right', but listened to the almost absurd claims.
It is something I think most Remain voters have learned in the years since. Counter any nonsense with simple facts and watch the eyes sviwel left and right before being met with 'project fear.... baa baa'
This has now moved to a denial of voting brexit to 'we are out now so 'stop moaning and make the best of it'. However I don't recall any suggestion before the referendim that we would be struggling to 'make the best of it'.
Sadly for Putin and his paid lackeys, Farage, Le Pen, Johnson etc there has been no collapse of the EU as stated. No Frexit, Nexit, Grexit and i fear many involved in this scam will not be held to account,as with post war Germany. In many countries justice was instant and brutal. Those French who served with the SS were summarily shot when handed over to the French army, and tens of thousands of collaborators were also unceremonious 'dispatched. In Germany, it was those at the top subjected to a show trial while thousands of lesser types escaped justice.
I expected most Brexiters will adopt a 'I was only following orders' type of defence, claiming they were not to know habitual liars were lying to them, whilst groups as far apart the CBI and the TUC were telling them the truth. Farmers were supposed to have voted more for brexit than against. Despite the NUF president advising them against, and out-lining the dangers.
It is easy to look back at those mass rallies in Germany in the 30s or the Black Shirt marches in the UK, and wonder what on earth were they thinking.
Much the same as millions in the UK. They were not thinking, it is that simple answer. |
I think the issue is that many people vote on the basis of emotion, not facts. And it can often be only one issue that is enough to sway them one way, when there are many more issues where a different vote would be of much more benefit to them. As a former civil servant, I'm always amazed that any public sector worker votes for the Tories because of the impact they have on public services and pay, but they do because of, say, Brexit or immigration.
The thing is that right-wing parties have long known this, and know that there are certain issues (the military, taxes, immigration) which appeal to a basic instinct in many people. The current favourite approach is the use of culture wars which appeal to the emotions of people of a certain age. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 18:10]
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| That rotter Putin. on 18:08 - Dec 4 with 1011 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:02 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
Well, at least Putin's happy with the state of the US and UK, so that's all OK. |
Ha ha.....we and they are/were more than capable of doing it ourselves. Own it! | |
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| That rotter Putin. on 18:13 - Dec 4 with 1004 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:05 - Dec 4 by DJR |
I think the issue is that many people vote on the basis of emotion, not facts. And it can often be only one issue that is enough to sway them one way, when there are many more issues where a different vote would be of much more benefit to them. As a former civil servant, I'm always amazed that any public sector worker votes for the Tories because of the impact they have on public services and pay, but they do because of, say, Brexit or immigration.
The thing is that right-wing parties have long known this, and know that there are certain issues (the military, taxes, immigration) which appeal to a basic instinct in many people. The current favourite approach is the use of culture wars which appeal to the emotions of people of a certain age. [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 18:10]
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This is a good point - add in Cummings, Cambridge Analytica and lies targeted at those identified as vulnerable to such propaganda through Facebook and you get to your 52%.
The leave campaigns spent a huge percentage of their total resources on Facebook ads in the week leading up to 23 June 2016. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:16 - Dec 4 with 996 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:08 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Ha ha.....we and they are/were more than capable of doing it ourselves. Own it! |
Read the Mueller report. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| That rotter Putin. on 18:35 - Dec 4 with 977 views | HARRY10 |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:13 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
This is a good point - add in Cummings, Cambridge Analytica and lies targeted at those identified as vulnerable to such propaganda through Facebook and you get to your 52%.
The leave campaigns spent a huge percentage of their total resources on Facebook ads in the week leading up to 23 June 2016. |
I think the question* is more that there are still enough of the weirdos to vote against their interests. Had the Russians/Cummings not been involved, and the UK stayed in the EU would these nutters have accepted the result ?
Why did fishermen swallow such obvious lies, as did the farmers ? Further on, how many thickos in the north believed Johnsons obvious lies about some kind of 'levelling up'.
Take de Canio. Brought up in the more left wing part of the City yet chose to get involved with the far right/Fascist cause. Great if you are extremely wealthy and your interests are am party is intent on keeping employees 'in line'. But history and his pocket should have taught him otherwise.]
Whether racism/nationalism is the cause, or an effect, of this mental disorder is a moot point, in what was once known as the Alf Garnett syndrome. Shown superbly in Life of Brian by the prisoner who praises the Romans.
Even with the reasonable level headed Scandinavians this illness is there. A belief that those whose financial interests are in direct confrontation to their own are somehow their friends. Useful idiots was and probably still is the phrase.
Not sure how society deals with these weirdos.
* surely ishooooo | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:40 - Dec 4 with 975 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:13 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
This is a good point - add in Cummings, Cambridge Analytica and lies targeted at those identified as vulnerable to such propaganda through Facebook and you get to your 52%.
The leave campaigns spent a huge percentage of their total resources on Facebook ads in the week leading up to 23 June 2016. |
If only we were all as immune to propaganda as your good self!
Edit....do you use Facebook? [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 18:42]
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| That rotter Putin. on 18:56 - Dec 4 with 962 views | jeera |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:40 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
If only we were all as immune to propaganda as your good self!
Edit....do you use Facebook? [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 18:42]
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FB was one of the main platforms for targeting the gullible for Russian trolls with lists of fake Brexit information.
Loads of misinformation was shared regularly by idiots who wouldn't be told they were being duped.
Mostly along with smug smiley faces because this info reinforced what they wanted to believe.
That Facebook you mean. |  |
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| That rotter Putin. on 20:06 - Dec 4 with 948 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:40 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
If only we were all as immune to propaganda as your good self!
Edit....do you use Facebook? [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 18:42]
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Deal with the words instead of trying to make out that I'm bigging myself up - otherwise it just looks like you can't deal with them.
And, no, I don't use Facebook. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 20:24 - Dec 4 with 915 views | Swansea_Blue |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:16 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
Read the Mueller report. |
And our own report into Russian interference in UK politics, which reckoned it was common. |  |
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| That rotter Putin. on 20:32 - Dec 4 with 901 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 20:24 - Dec 4 by Swansea_Blue |
And our own report into Russian interference in UK politics, which reckoned it was common. |
Quite.
I think BDS has his own facts on matters concerning Putin ... | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 23:15 - Dec 4 with 831 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:56 - Dec 4 by jeera |
FB was one of the main platforms for targeting the gullible for Russian trolls with lists of fake Brexit information.
Loads of misinformation was shared regularly by idiots who wouldn't be told they were being duped.
Mostly along with smug smiley faces because this info reinforced what they wanted to believe.
That Facebook you mean. |
Yep that one.....never used it myself. | |
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| That rotter Putin. on 23:17 - Dec 4 with 831 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That rotter Putin. on 20:06 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
Deal with the words instead of trying to make out that I'm bigging myself up - otherwise it just looks like you can't deal with them.
And, no, I don't use Facebook. |
So are you suggesting that it is only predisposed racist idiots that use facebook? | |
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| That rotter Putin. on 23:24 - Dec 4 with 826 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 23:17 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So are you suggesting that it is only predisposed racist idiots that use facebook? |
Oh dear. Have you been "celebrating" the victory?
I'll indulge you.
Quote me back the words I've posted that led you to that conclusion. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 23:52 - Dec 4 with 812 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That rotter Putin. on 23:24 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
Oh dear. Have you been "celebrating" the victory?
I'll indulge you.
Quote me back the words I've posted that led you to that conclusion. |
I thought the masses had laid themselves open to Putin's Facebook manipulation bots by using that particular medium. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Edit...reading back I see it was only the "vulnerable" that were targeted...but was that Putin or Cambridge Analytica? [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 23:56]
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| That rotter Putin. on 23:54 - Dec 4 with 807 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 23:52 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I thought the masses had laid themselves open to Putin's Facebook manipulation bots by using that particular medium. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Edit...reading back I see it was only the "vulnerable" that were targeted...but was that Putin or Cambridge Analytica? [Post edited 4 Dec 2022 23:56]
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The words - quote the words.
"So are you suggesting that it is only predisposed racist idiots that use facebook?"
Where are these words? | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 00:10 - Dec 5 with 777 views | HARRY10 |
| That rotter Putin. on 18:56 - Dec 4 by jeera |
FB was one of the main platforms for targeting the gullible for Russian trolls with lists of fake Brexit information.
Loads of misinformation was shared regularly by idiots who wouldn't be told they were being duped.
Mostly along with smug smiley faces because this info reinforced what they wanted to believe.
That Facebook you mean. |
Take the looney ex MEP for Lowestoft who, ignoring all evidence to the contrary, believed i stead, that arch liar Johnson. Then whined on James O'Brien's radio show that Johnson had lied to her.
Much as some Town fans might whine had McK promised them we would be in the Champions League next season.
A child would have known that the UK did not have the boats able to catch all the fish as in passed through UK waters. That by blocking French/Belgium boats, who had been fishing those waters
for a good few hundred years, might see them block UK boats from landing their catch in Belgium/France.
The naughty French might sit outside UK waters and catch the adult fish (cod) as it migrated from their spawning ground in the Bay of Biscay.
Sadly this was the level of stupidity right across the Brexit campaign. Echoes of the last scenes in Steinbeck's of Mice and Men where George encourages Lennie to dream and see an imagined farm, before shooting him.
Brexiters were cynically used, by the wealthy and outside forces. Just as with Lennie their delusions would never be achieved, it couldn't be. There were never going to be better trade deals, cheaper food or the fantasy that the UK could alone stand outside any trading bloc - and so it could manufacture goods at any level of quality and still trade with the rest of the world.
As it is 69 trade deals have simply been EU trade rollovers. Meaning the UK still has to conform to agreed EIU standards. It might seem odd to the not too bright brexiters that countries cooperate to ensure everyone knows what is what.
Pretty much how the rest of the world has no problem abiding by Greenwich Mean Time. Imagine if it was French Mean Time. Brexiters would imagine that the UK could have a separate time zone. 17 minutes before the hour whereas the rest of the world is 'on the hour'.
Idiotic, but that is how brexit cam across. No wonder the leading Brexiters are no longer talking about it. They had you votes, your money (Farage) you are no longer needed.
It will sink in eventually | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 08:31 - Dec 5 with 717 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| That rotter Putin. on 12:55 - Dec 4 by XYZ |
Well, after delivering Putin's Brexit and accepting all those donations, he should know what his master wants. |
Taking Russian donations whilst arming the Ukraine since 2014 - the Tories are so duplicitous that even the Russians can’t trust them! | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 09:19 - Dec 5 with 682 views | DJR |
| That rotter Putin. on 08:31 - Dec 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Taking Russian donations whilst arming the Ukraine since 2014 - the Tories are so duplicitous that even the Russians can’t trust them! |
And don't forget the City and our tax havens lapped up all that Russian money floating about.
The thing is we've now gone full circle and are imposing sanctions which are probably affecting the West and rest of the world as much as Russia, when maybe a more robust attitude to Russian from 2014 onwards might not have made Putin make the miscalculation that he appears to have made. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 09:23 - Dec 5 with 676 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 08:31 - Dec 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Taking Russian donations whilst arming the Ukraine since 2014 - the Tories are so duplicitous that even the Russians can’t trust them! |
My understanding is that they did very little for Ukraine before Putin's invasion - have you got reliable sources for that claim? | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 09:57 - Dec 5 with 661 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| That rotter Putin. on 09:23 - Dec 5 by XYZ |
My understanding is that they did very little for Ukraine before Putin's invasion - have you got reliable sources for that claim? |
The US and UK have provided significant training and armament to Ukraine since the invasion of Crimea - hence the original attempt at a blitzkreig to Kiev at the outset was unsuccessful (brave resistance of the Ukrainians aside). No doubt the credit is due to MoD rather than the Govt who of course continued to take Russian donations, and allow them to buy up half the London property market etc.
The original source was The Economist, though I read the arrival back in April so will need to dig it out. | | | |
| That rotter Putin. on 10:01 - Dec 5 with 654 views | XYZ |
| That rotter Putin. on 09:57 - Dec 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
The US and UK have provided significant training and armament to Ukraine since the invasion of Crimea - hence the original attempt at a blitzkreig to Kiev at the outset was unsuccessful (brave resistance of the Ukrainians aside). No doubt the credit is due to MoD rather than the Govt who of course continued to take Russian donations, and allow them to buy up half the London property market etc.
The original source was The Economist, though I read the arrival back in April so will need to dig it out. |
I've heard those claims were overstated by Johnson to cover his ass.
I may be suffering confirmation bias here, but I'm not convinced the UK were doing much that would have "annoyed" Putin.
Some independent facts would be good if easily accessible. | | | |
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