| HS2.... 18:32 - Oct 2 with 5926 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Do we all have to pretend it was a great idea now? |  |
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| HS2.... on 11:16 - Oct 3 with 801 views | DJR |
| HS2.... on 10:58 - Oct 3 by Pinewoodblue |
Never really thought it was a good idea in the first place. High speed tracks are good for long distances but longer distances than London to Manchester.
On an average day there are 48 direct trains each way between London & Liverpool. How many people who make that journey are going to change trains in Manchester, very few I suspect?
The need is for increased capacity to all major cities. Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Glasgow , Edinburgh etc. HS2 doesn’t meet that need.
I note very few, if any , have answered the original question are you waiting for Starmer to tell you what to think? |
I was not a fan from the outset either. Indeed, I was surprised that the Cameron government went ahead with it.
I use the train a few times a year to Liverpool and find the journey time more than acceptable. But with all the money splashed out on HS2 it is bizarre that the trains to Sheffield are still diesel.
As regards Starmer, I reckon he will go with whatever the Tories decide.
EDIT: one person who has been surprisingly quiet on recent developments is its biggest proponent Lord Adonis. [Post edited 3 Oct 2023 11:30]
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| HS2.... on 11:19 - Oct 3 with 785 views | DJR |
| HS2.... on 10:59 - Oct 3 by StokieBlue |
Small pedantic point:
The first nuclear power station was built outside of Moscow in 1954. The first commercial nuclear power station was built in the UK in 1956.
I suspect that regulations in 1956 were a bit more lax but as you say, the speed of construction was impressive.
The real issue here is short term thinking. We should have nationalised companies building infrastructure (wind, solar, nuclear, rail etc) offering jobs at all levels from university graduates to apprenticeships.
It would solve many issues.
SB |
Well spotted. | | | |
| HS2.... on 11:47 - Oct 3 with 739 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Assume the tickets will be priced higher than the already outrageous tickets on the mainline? It’s going to take quite some time to pay back £100bn you would think…
Unless you know several months in advance, travel at very specific times, and change 12 times then it’s multiples cheaper to drive (and quicker). I went to Birmingham a couple of months back - would have been 140 quid for 2 people by train, or say 30/40 quid in petrol which we could split. |  | | |
| HS2.... on 13:06 - Oct 3 with 693 views | DJR |
| HS2.... on 11:47 - Oct 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Assume the tickets will be priced higher than the already outrageous tickets on the mainline? It’s going to take quite some time to pay back £100bn you would think…
Unless you know several months in advance, travel at very specific times, and change 12 times then it’s multiples cheaper to drive (and quicker). I went to Birmingham a couple of months back - would have been 140 quid for 2 people by train, or say 30/40 quid in petrol which we could split. |
In the case of HS1, an anytime day return from Ashford to London costs £82.50. In contrast a anytime day return not using HS1 costs £68.90. HS1 takes you into St Pancras, ordinary trains, London Bridge, Charing Cross and Cannon Street. [Post edited 3 Oct 2023 13:08]
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| HS2.... on 13:20 - Oct 3 with 659 views | TractorBrew |
| HS2.... on 10:48 - Oct 3 by Tractor_Buck |
To be precise, Digbeth to Wormwood Scrubs but that doesn't sound as attractive.
The Birmingham end has been a joke from the start. Curzon Street is outside the city centre, a half mile walk from the main rail hub at New Street, so passengers will have to disembark at New Street, get out of the station which can take ages during the rush hour, then walk or get the as yet unbuilt Midland Metro to Curzon Street. They will then travel to a park on the edge of London on HS2 where they will then have to get on the Lizzy (already pretty crowded) to get anywhere useful.
I suspect it will actually end up being quicker overall to stay on the train you came in to Brum on/get the Avanti from New Street and go straight to Euston, than it will to go through all that hassle just to get on the HS2. |
This is utter nonsense, your geography of Birmingham needs refreshing. Curzon St is pretty much on the boarder of the city centre and Digbeth. I have never struggled to get our New St at rush hour either - the only people that struggle are people incapable of reading signage.
If we actually executed on stuff HS2 was a good idea in its original form, but we don't, we do everything half baked because of not wanting to upset anyone, and at the same time manage to upset everyone. | | | |
| HS2.... on 16:29 - Oct 3 with 602 views | Tractor_Buck |
| HS2.... on 13:20 - Oct 3 by TractorBrew |
This is utter nonsense, your geography of Birmingham needs refreshing. Curzon St is pretty much on the boarder of the city centre and Digbeth. I have never struggled to get our New St at rush hour either - the only people that struggle are people incapable of reading signage.
If we actually executed on stuff HS2 was a good idea in its original form, but we don't, we do everything half baked because of not wanting to upset anyone, and at the same time manage to upset everyone. |
Utter nonsense is a bit strong.
Curzon Street is half a mile on foot from New Street. The Metro line to it (when built) will split from the main line on Bull Street, and whilst there may be a service from Edgbaston to Deritend via Grand Central this hasn't been confirmed yet so passengers may have to walk up to the top of Corp. Street to catch it, by which time they may as well have walked to Curzon Street. (Apologies to other readers whilst we have a discussion on the geography of Birmingham)
Well done on being able to sneak out of New Street quicker than everyone else. Not everyone will have the local knowledge that you (and I) have - and end up queuing for the escalators up to concourse level, then queuing for the ticket barrier and then finding their way out via Stephenson Street or Grand Central.
I assume that the operators of HS2 will offer some kind of through ticket from New Street onwards via the Metro like they do with journeys via London Termini using the Tube. They'll have to, otherwise no one will bother.
The rest of my post remains even if you dispute the Birmingham bit. Old Oak Common is next to HMP Wormwood Scrubs, not even close to the centre of town. Onward travel will be by the Lizzy, a line that was never built for that purpose. It's a lovely modern rail line, but if HS2 usage takes off (big if), it will get very crowded very quickly. [Post edited 3 Oct 2023 16:41]
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| HS2.... on 08:26 - Oct 4 with 545 views | Tractor_Buck |
| HS2.... on 16:29 - Oct 3 by Tractor_Buck |
Utter nonsense is a bit strong.
Curzon Street is half a mile on foot from New Street. The Metro line to it (when built) will split from the main line on Bull Street, and whilst there may be a service from Edgbaston to Deritend via Grand Central this hasn't been confirmed yet so passengers may have to walk up to the top of Corp. Street to catch it, by which time they may as well have walked to Curzon Street. (Apologies to other readers whilst we have a discussion on the geography of Birmingham)
Well done on being able to sneak out of New Street quicker than everyone else. Not everyone will have the local knowledge that you (and I) have - and end up queuing for the escalators up to concourse level, then queuing for the ticket barrier and then finding their way out via Stephenson Street or Grand Central.
I assume that the operators of HS2 will offer some kind of through ticket from New Street onwards via the Metro like they do with journeys via London Termini using the Tube. They'll have to, otherwise no one will bother.
The rest of my post remains even if you dispute the Birmingham bit. Old Oak Common is next to HMP Wormwood Scrubs, not even close to the centre of town. Onward travel will be by the Lizzy, a line that was never built for that purpose. It's a lovely modern rail line, but if HS2 usage takes off (big if), it will get very crowded very quickly. [Post edited 3 Oct 2023 16:41]
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And now the revised plan is Euston to Birmingham Curzon Street and Fradley (a big industrial estate just north of Lichfield) where it will join the West Coast Main Line and compete for space on an already overcrowded line to get to Manchester.
So still no direct connection in Birmingham and pootling along behind a standard Avanti going north.
Now THAT'S utter nonsense. | | | |
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