| ULEZ 12:48 - Oct 4 with 5852 views | DJR |
This follows on from something similar that GB mentioned had happened to his wife in Glasgow.
It relates to my journey back from Portman Road last night, and the best way to describe things is to set out below the enquiry I have submitted to those responsible for ULEZ.
"Last night around midnight, I was travelling south on the M25 from the Dartford Crossing heading towards Tonbridge. The M25 was closed between junctions 2 (the A2) and 3 (the A20), and I was diverted onto the A2 heading into London. Given that, I thought the best way to proceed was to carry on to the South Circular and then head back to the M25 along the A20. Indeed, any other journey between the A2 and the A20 to get back onto the M25 would have involved a very complicated journey along country roads I did not know. I also don’t have a satnav.
As I entered the outskirts of London, I suddenly remembered that the ULEZ zone had been expanded, and that I had probably ventured into it. That being the case I felt I had no option but to continue with my journey. I might add that I did not see any warning signs for ULEZ (perhaps, if there are any, they are not lit at night) which would have prompted me to make a U-turn well in advance of the zone.
I would not have entered the zone but for the diversion, so I do not think it is fair that I should have to pay the ULEZ charge.
In this connection, I have phoned your helpline but they say they do not have any record of last night's works which they suggested would have enabled the recission of the ULEZ charge. Their only record was of roadworks on this section of the M25 on 30 September which suggests there are not adequate systems in place to monitor road works and makes my position even more unfair.
The other issue I have is that I am not sure exactly when I entered the zone. If it were just before midnight (and it would only have been a few minutes before at most), I would presumably be liable for two days of the ULEZ charge which is equally unfair, given I was only in the zone in total for maybe 25 minutes.
Your helpline confirmed I could be liable for two days’ charge, but as I was told it was not possible to check on the ULEZ system my vehicle's movements or timings, this means I will have to pay two days of the charge (amounting to £25) in order to avoid the possibility of a penalty charge notice (and thus a £180 fine), and with no possibility of a partial refund.
All in all this is not a satisfactory state of affairs and suggests to me that the systems in place for ULEZ are totally inadequate.
It would be nice to think you would look favourably on what I have said, and cancel the charge or charges for me, but I need a response from you before Friday, as this is the deadline for paying the charge. And if I am forced to pay the charge, I will certainly raise this matter at a much higher level because those responsible for ULEZ (at Mayoral and Cabinet level) have a duty to have a fair and just administrative system in place for what is in effect a form of taxation."
[Post edited 4 Oct 2023 12:51]
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| ULEZ on 11:12 - Oct 5 with 1701 views | DJR |
| ULEZ on 11:08 - Oct 5 by unbelievablue |
Did you go inside the South Circular (e.g. the old ULEZ) or just the expansion? FYI, first offense for ULEZ expansion is being waived - I was going to pay but received a letter explaining the expansion and that 'on this occasion you will not be charged' etc. |
I didn't, and knew about the South Circular boundary. It would have been nice if someone at customer services had told me that.
The problem it seems to me is that the whole system is so appalling from an administrative point of view that it appears to be designed to catch out people like me who aren't fully up to speed on ULEZ because we don't live in London, and have no intention of entering London knowing our car is non-compliant.. And just imagine the ignorance of those with foreign cars.
But your point about a first offence is worth knowing when I take the issue up at a higher level. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 11:18]
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| ULEZ on 13:37 - Oct 5 with 1650 views | DJR |
Thanks for this, but I didn't notice any further direction signs in place once I was directed onto the London-bound A2, so I had to rely on my own knowledge and take the route I thought would be the quickest to get back to the M25. Whether they would accept that what I did was acceptable is perhaps a different matter, and if I were only caught on a camera only near the South Circular maybe they wouldn't believe a word I said. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 13:50]
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| ULEZ on 14:14 - Oct 5 with 1626 views | DJR |
This is the response I have received to my enquiry. As I didn't immediately turn round when I realised I had entered the zone, it's looks like I am stuffed, subject to taking up the matter as a matter of principle at a higher level.
I suppose part of the issue is that the M25 is a few miles away from the edge of the ULEZ zone, so they would regard being directed off the M25 as not inevitably meaning you have to enter the ULEZ zone. Indeed, their letter would point to the diversion exemption being limited to diversions at the boundaries of the ULEZ zone which take you into the zone.
"Thank you for your enquiry, received 04 October 2023, about the ULEZ.
If you're diverted into the charging zone by an official diversion, you shouldn't have to pay a Charge. However, you must ensure that you leave the charging zone as directed by the diversion, or, if no signage is provided, at the first available opportunity.
We receive our diversion information through 3rd parties such as 'highways england' or the highways agency. TfL are then notified of any diversions that impact the ULEZ, LEZ or CC zones.
We have searched our records of the diversions into the charging zone for the day in question and unfortunately we cannot see a diversion on our system for the date in question.
Therefore we're unable to make an adjustment / give you a refund." [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 14:31]
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| ULEZ on 14:32 - Oct 5 with 1608 views | tractorshark |
| ULEZ on 14:14 - Oct 5 by DJR |
This is the response I have received to my enquiry. As I didn't immediately turn round when I realised I had entered the zone, it's looks like I am stuffed, subject to taking up the matter as a matter of principle at a higher level.
I suppose part of the issue is that the M25 is a few miles away from the edge of the ULEZ zone, so they would regard being directed off the M25 as not inevitably meaning you have to enter the ULEZ zone. Indeed, their letter would point to the diversion exemption being limited to diversions at the boundaries of the ULEZ zone which take you into the zone.
"Thank you for your enquiry, received 04 October 2023, about the ULEZ.
If you're diverted into the charging zone by an official diversion, you shouldn't have to pay a Charge. However, you must ensure that you leave the charging zone as directed by the diversion, or, if no signage is provided, at the first available opportunity.
We receive our diversion information through 3rd parties such as 'highways england' or the highways agency. TfL are then notified of any diversions that impact the ULEZ, LEZ or CC zones.
We have searched our records of the diversions into the charging zone for the day in question and unfortunately we cannot see a diversion on our system for the date in question.
Therefore we're unable to make an adjustment / give you a refund." [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 14:31]
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Absolute nonsense. It’s not your fault, I would fight that and complain.
My defence will be simple. I live in Sussex, I was driving back from Ipswich, I was diverted on to the A2 and made my way to the A20 to get back on to the M25.
If there was no diversion, why would I possibly take a detour like that at midnight?
Bunch of muppets. They will not get a penny from me. |  | | |
| ULEZ on 14:36 - Oct 5 with 1602 views | tractorshark |
| ULEZ on 14:32 - Oct 5 by tractorshark |
Absolute nonsense. It’s not your fault, I would fight that and complain.
My defence will be simple. I live in Sussex, I was driving back from Ipswich, I was diverted on to the A2 and made my way to the A20 to get back on to the M25.
If there was no diversion, why would I possibly take a detour like that at midnight?
Bunch of muppets. They will not get a penny from me. |
I’d also add there were clear diversion signs and the work was scheduled for the next day. They just started a day earlier.
Just because one department can’t speak to another or get their act together, you shouldn’t be penalised financially.
The other thing is you haven’t received any notification of entering the zone, so these people in the call centre are just guessing. Terrible scheme, terrible implementation. | | | |
| ULEZ on 14:39 - Oct 5 with 1583 views | DJR |
| ULEZ on 14:36 - Oct 5 by tractorshark |
I’d also add there were clear diversion signs and the work was scheduled for the next day. They just started a day earlier.
Just because one department can’t speak to another or get their act together, you shouldn’t be penalised financially.
The other thing is you haven’t received any notification of entering the zone, so these people in the call centre are just guessing. Terrible scheme, terrible implementation. |
It certainly doesn't look like natural justice plays any part in the system. | | | |
| ULEZ on 14:43 - Oct 5 with 1571 views | DJR |
| ULEZ on 14:32 - Oct 5 by tractorshark |
Absolute nonsense. It’s not your fault, I would fight that and complain.
My defence will be simple. I live in Sussex, I was driving back from Ipswich, I was diverted on to the A2 and made my way to the A20 to get back on to the M25.
If there was no diversion, why would I possibly take a detour like that at midnight?
Bunch of muppets. They will not get a penny from me. |
The thing is that I did know the area, and could have gone on the A2 to Bluewater and taken the A225 to Tonbridge but I didn't fancy a country road that late at night which I thought would take longer.
From my dealings with them, I imagine that is the sort of line they would take with me if I made an appeal.
Hopefully, you won't have been caught on camera, or you might be let off for a first offence (which I didn't know about), and won't even have to appeal. [Post edited 5 Oct 2023 14:45]
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