| State of Palestine 22:05 - Sep 21 with 8145 views | SitfcB |
Genuine post and question.
Can someone explain what it means, why it’s been done and what they hope will come from it?
Is it a good or bad thing?
Thank you. [Post edited 21 Sep 22:05]
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| State of Palestine on 23:40 - Sep 22 with 994 views | WeWereZombies |
| State of Palestine on 22:59 - Sep 22 by mellowblue |
Many Palestinians have been in Jordan 50-70 years now after the 1948 and 1967 Arab- Israeli wars and have had plenty of time too integrate and many have. Many who didn't followed Arafat to Lebanon when Jordan were forced to expel the PLO or face potential war with Israel. |
Complicated, isn't it ? Those stats from 2015 show almost no Palestinians in Lebanon, back in the Seventies or Eighties I remember watching a John Pilger report on ITN about the vast refugee camp in Tunisia but I think that was dispersed because of a destabilising effect that was perceived later by Ben Ali's regime. Just as Jews have experienced over the centuries there have been significant displacements of Palestinians since 1948. And there must be an upcoming logistical nightmare to compare with the difficulties that Israel faces finding land on which new Jewish migrants can settle if a workable two state solution is found and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians start to return to their historic homeland. |  |
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| State of Palestine on 07:45 - Sep 25 with 420 views | DJR |
| State of Palestine on 12:02 - Sep 22 by DJR |
The two-state solution appears to have been off the table for a long time.
Gideon Levy, a prominent left-wing Jew who writes for Haaretz, came to this conclusion a long time ago, and advocates for a one-state solution.
Here's the opening to a speech he made to the Oxford Union in 2023, as well as a link to the whole of that speech for anyone interested.
https://medium.com/illumination/two-state-solution-oxford-union-debate-by-gideon
Almost everything said already, all the lies all the propaganda, and also some truth. But I think that it’s time to put an end to the masquerade. The masquerade that has been going on now for at least 50 years. This masquerade contains two assumptions which both are pure lies. First, Israel has the intention to go for the two-state solution. Israel never had an intention to go for a two-state solution not even for a single moment. It is an almost historical irony to see now official representatives of Israel coming and defending the two-state solution. what stopped you for 50 years to go for the two-state solution? There was not one single Israeli government that stopped for one day from building those criminal settlements. The second lie is that one state doesn’t exist. ladies and gentlemen, the one-state has existed now for 50 years. The only question is what kind of state is it is it a democracy or is it an apartheid state? that’s the only question that is still open. [Post edited 22 Sep 12:04]
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Here is Gideon Levy's opinion piece in today's Haaretz. It is well worth a read.
Recognition Without Rescue: The World's Hollow Gift to Palestinians
While the genocide in Gaza continues unabated and settlers run amok in the West Bank together with the army, the world met its minimum obligation by recognizing a state that will likely never come into being
On the day the world recognized a Palestinian state I made my way, together with photographer Alex Levac, to a remote Palestinian village in the eastern part of the West Bank.
The day before, settlers from the new illegal outposts in the vicinity stole dozens of the village's sheep in a violent armed robbery. On the day the United Nations held a high-level conference on the two-state solution and 10 Western states joined the long list of countries that had already recognized the imaginary state, the Alon Road was almost devoid of Palestinian vehicles. Most West Bank roads are now blocked by iron gates that are opened and closed at the whim of Israeli military commanders.
On the day 159 states had already recognized the state of dreams, 81-year-old shepherd Sadek Farhana lay at home, groaning in pain. The day before, settlers had beaten him mercilessly with clubs for no reason, breaking both his arms, despite his advanced age. His grandson sat beside him, his own head bandaged: He too had been injured in the settlers' robbery. The Israel Police were quick to falsely accuse the Palestinian shepherds, without investigating, saying they had robbed the settlers. The newly recognized state has no police force to protect its residents.
On the day France's president celebrated a diplomatic victory, Palestinian statehood seemed more distant than ever. At no point in time has the dream of a state seemed more disconnected from the reality on the ground. The president of the state in the making, Mahmoud Abbas, was not even allowed to come to the United States to attend the conference discussing his country, in a blatant violation by the U.S. of its agreement with the UN.
At that very moment, the International Criminal Court's most-wanted man, Benjamin Netanyahu, who is suspected of committing crimes against humanity, was preparing for his trip to New York. The president of the state that nearly the entire world now "recognizes" will attend the General Assembly via a video link, while the ICC's No. 1 most-wanted will address the hall from the dais.
On the day the world recognized a Palestinian state, 61 people were killed in Gaza, roughly the same number as on the day before and the day after, as has been the case every day in recent months. Recognition did not and will not save even one Gazan child from the bombings. Gaza is unfit for human habitation, and the situation for Palestinians living in the West Bank is gradually growing similar. It's doubtful the old man who was beaten even heard about the recognition.
The British and French declarations changed nothing for him; even if Andorra and Monaco joined in, his fate would not change; the sheep that were stolen from him would not be returned even if Luxembourg were to join the list.
The world, and especially self-righteous Europe, paid more empty lip service this week to the victims in Gaza and the West Bank. While the genocide in Gaza continues unabated and settlers run amok in the West Bank together with the army, the world met its minimum obligation by recognizing a state that will likely never come into being. How easy it is to recognize it, how hard it is to stop genocide. Israel, as usual, cried "antisemitism." All of the Jewish parties in the Israeli opposition – including Yair Golan's the Democrats – stood with the government in condemning the recognition.
Anyone who, like me, was desperately hoping for a dramatic emergency move by the world to immediately stop the systematic killing and destruction in Gaza, before anything else, instead got a move that will only make things worse. The heads of state can now reassure themselves and their agitated citizens: We have punished the criminal and rewarded the victim. We no longer need to lift a finger for Gaza, we've done our part.
Tragically, to recognize a Palestinian state now is preposterous, almost crazy. There is no partner for a two-state solution at the moment, neither in Israel nor in Palestine. Gaza has been destroyed and there is no longer room in the West Bank for a state that is not a collection of Bantustans. Do you want to save the surviving remnant of Gaza? Harsh sanctions must be imposed on Israel immediately. Do you want a long-term vision? Democracy for all people from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. |  | | |
| State of Palestine on 09:26 - Sep 25 with 318 views | Radlett_blue |
| State of Palestine on 07:45 - Sep 25 by DJR |
Here is Gideon Levy's opinion piece in today's Haaretz. It is well worth a read.
Recognition Without Rescue: The World's Hollow Gift to Palestinians
While the genocide in Gaza continues unabated and settlers run amok in the West Bank together with the army, the world met its minimum obligation by recognizing a state that will likely never come into being
On the day the world recognized a Palestinian state I made my way, together with photographer Alex Levac, to a remote Palestinian village in the eastern part of the West Bank.
The day before, settlers from the new illegal outposts in the vicinity stole dozens of the village's sheep in a violent armed robbery. On the day the United Nations held a high-level conference on the two-state solution and 10 Western states joined the long list of countries that had already recognized the imaginary state, the Alon Road was almost devoid of Palestinian vehicles. Most West Bank roads are now blocked by iron gates that are opened and closed at the whim of Israeli military commanders.
On the day 159 states had already recognized the state of dreams, 81-year-old shepherd Sadek Farhana lay at home, groaning in pain. The day before, settlers had beaten him mercilessly with clubs for no reason, breaking both his arms, despite his advanced age. His grandson sat beside him, his own head bandaged: He too had been injured in the settlers' robbery. The Israel Police were quick to falsely accuse the Palestinian shepherds, without investigating, saying they had robbed the settlers. The newly recognized state has no police force to protect its residents.
On the day France's president celebrated a diplomatic victory, Palestinian statehood seemed more distant than ever. At no point in time has the dream of a state seemed more disconnected from the reality on the ground. The president of the state in the making, Mahmoud Abbas, was not even allowed to come to the United States to attend the conference discussing his country, in a blatant violation by the U.S. of its agreement with the UN.
At that very moment, the International Criminal Court's most-wanted man, Benjamin Netanyahu, who is suspected of committing crimes against humanity, was preparing for his trip to New York. The president of the state that nearly the entire world now "recognizes" will attend the General Assembly via a video link, while the ICC's No. 1 most-wanted will address the hall from the dais.
On the day the world recognized a Palestinian state, 61 people were killed in Gaza, roughly the same number as on the day before and the day after, as has been the case every day in recent months. Recognition did not and will not save even one Gazan child from the bombings. Gaza is unfit for human habitation, and the situation for Palestinians living in the West Bank is gradually growing similar. It's doubtful the old man who was beaten even heard about the recognition.
The British and French declarations changed nothing for him; even if Andorra and Monaco joined in, his fate would not change; the sheep that were stolen from him would not be returned even if Luxembourg were to join the list.
The world, and especially self-righteous Europe, paid more empty lip service this week to the victims in Gaza and the West Bank. While the genocide in Gaza continues unabated and settlers run amok in the West Bank together with the army, the world met its minimum obligation by recognizing a state that will likely never come into being. How easy it is to recognize it, how hard it is to stop genocide. Israel, as usual, cried "antisemitism." All of the Jewish parties in the Israeli opposition – including Yair Golan's the Democrats – stood with the government in condemning the recognition.
Anyone who, like me, was desperately hoping for a dramatic emergency move by the world to immediately stop the systematic killing and destruction in Gaza, before anything else, instead got a move that will only make things worse. The heads of state can now reassure themselves and their agitated citizens: We have punished the criminal and rewarded the victim. We no longer need to lift a finger for Gaza, we've done our part.
Tragically, to recognize a Palestinian state now is preposterous, almost crazy. There is no partner for a two-state solution at the moment, neither in Israel nor in Palestine. Gaza has been destroyed and there is no longer room in the West Bank for a state that is not a collection of Bantustans. Do you want to save the surviving remnant of Gaza? Harsh sanctions must be imposed on Israel immediately. Do you want a long-term vision? Democracy for all people from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. |
The Western powers have long been good at empty, virtue signalling gestures. Putin worked that our a few years ago. |  |
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| State of Palestine on 09:30 - Sep 25 with 313 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| State of Palestine on 07:45 - Sep 25 by DJR |
Here is Gideon Levy's opinion piece in today's Haaretz. It is well worth a read.
Recognition Without Rescue: The World's Hollow Gift to Palestinians
While the genocide in Gaza continues unabated and settlers run amok in the West Bank together with the army, the world met its minimum obligation by recognizing a state that will likely never come into being
On the day the world recognized a Palestinian state I made my way, together with photographer Alex Levac, to a remote Palestinian village in the eastern part of the West Bank.
The day before, settlers from the new illegal outposts in the vicinity stole dozens of the village's sheep in a violent armed robbery. On the day the United Nations held a high-level conference on the two-state solution and 10 Western states joined the long list of countries that had already recognized the imaginary state, the Alon Road was almost devoid of Palestinian vehicles. Most West Bank roads are now blocked by iron gates that are opened and closed at the whim of Israeli military commanders.
On the day 159 states had already recognized the state of dreams, 81-year-old shepherd Sadek Farhana lay at home, groaning in pain. The day before, settlers had beaten him mercilessly with clubs for no reason, breaking both his arms, despite his advanced age. His grandson sat beside him, his own head bandaged: He too had been injured in the settlers' robbery. The Israel Police were quick to falsely accuse the Palestinian shepherds, without investigating, saying they had robbed the settlers. The newly recognized state has no police force to protect its residents.
On the day France's president celebrated a diplomatic victory, Palestinian statehood seemed more distant than ever. At no point in time has the dream of a state seemed more disconnected from the reality on the ground. The president of the state in the making, Mahmoud Abbas, was not even allowed to come to the United States to attend the conference discussing his country, in a blatant violation by the U.S. of its agreement with the UN.
At that very moment, the International Criminal Court's most-wanted man, Benjamin Netanyahu, who is suspected of committing crimes against humanity, was preparing for his trip to New York. The president of the state that nearly the entire world now "recognizes" will attend the General Assembly via a video link, while the ICC's No. 1 most-wanted will address the hall from the dais.
On the day the world recognized a Palestinian state, 61 people were killed in Gaza, roughly the same number as on the day before and the day after, as has been the case every day in recent months. Recognition did not and will not save even one Gazan child from the bombings. Gaza is unfit for human habitation, and the situation for Palestinians living in the West Bank is gradually growing similar. It's doubtful the old man who was beaten even heard about the recognition.
The British and French declarations changed nothing for him; even if Andorra and Monaco joined in, his fate would not change; the sheep that were stolen from him would not be returned even if Luxembourg were to join the list.
The world, and especially self-righteous Europe, paid more empty lip service this week to the victims in Gaza and the West Bank. While the genocide in Gaza continues unabated and settlers run amok in the West Bank together with the army, the world met its minimum obligation by recognizing a state that will likely never come into being. How easy it is to recognize it, how hard it is to stop genocide. Israel, as usual, cried "antisemitism." All of the Jewish parties in the Israeli opposition – including Yair Golan's the Democrats – stood with the government in condemning the recognition.
Anyone who, like me, was desperately hoping for a dramatic emergency move by the world to immediately stop the systematic killing and destruction in Gaza, before anything else, instead got a move that will only make things worse. The heads of state can now reassure themselves and their agitated citizens: We have punished the criminal and rewarded the victim. We no longer need to lift a finger for Gaza, we've done our part.
Tragically, to recognize a Palestinian state now is preposterous, almost crazy. There is no partner for a two-state solution at the moment, neither in Israel nor in Palestine. Gaza has been destroyed and there is no longer room in the West Bank for a state that is not a collection of Bantustans. Do you want to save the surviving remnant of Gaza? Harsh sanctions must be imposed on Israel immediately. Do you want a long-term vision? Democracy for all people from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. |
This! |  |
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| State of Palestine on 12:27 - Sep 25 with 180 views | mellowblue |
| State of Palestine on 23:40 - Sep 22 by WeWereZombies |
Complicated, isn't it ? Those stats from 2015 show almost no Palestinians in Lebanon, back in the Seventies or Eighties I remember watching a John Pilger report on ITN about the vast refugee camp in Tunisia but I think that was dispersed because of a destabilising effect that was perceived later by Ben Ali's regime. Just as Jews have experienced over the centuries there have been significant displacements of Palestinians since 1948. And there must be an upcoming logistical nightmare to compare with the difficulties that Israel faces finding land on which new Jewish migrants can settle if a workable two state solution is found and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians start to return to their historic homeland. |
No doubt the Palestinian Arabs moved back to the West Bank/Gaza given the turmoil in Lebanon over the years. Arafat and the PLO moved on and bunkered up in Tunisia became somewhat internationally rehabilitated, moved back to the West Bank and became defacto leader there, but was somewhat obstructive to a lasting peace deal, two state recognition when conditions were ripe for a settlement in the late 90's. You can see with all the historic problems why the Jews and Arabs have a somewhat nomadic existence at various times. The influx of the Jews starting in the early 20th century after the promotion and rise of Zionism has certainly put pressure on the Palestinian Arabs. There just is not enough space, particularly fertile land space for 2 competing populations. The massive birthrate of the Palestinians also puts pressure on space. I read that half of Gazaans are children? |  | | |
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