| on 07:36 - Jun 10 with 6055 views | _ |
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| So the left got more votes on 07:42 - Jun 10 with 6035 views | bluelagos |
Strong n stable been ditched? |  |
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| So the left got more votes on 07:44 - Jun 10 with 6027 views | No9 |
| So the left got more votes on 07:42 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
Strong n stable been ditched? |
The new catchphrase is- beghora bejazuz | | | |
| So the left got more votes on 07:44 - Jun 10 with 6028 views | imsureazzure |
800k Scots elected 34 MP,S.
Over represented, no doubt. |  | | |
| on 07:45 - Jun 10 with 6018 views | _ |
| So the left got more votes on 07:42 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
Strong n stable been ditched? |
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| So the left got more votes on 08:13 - Jun 10 with 5967 views | No9 |
One commentator yesterday actually used the 'weak & wobbly' | | | |
| So the left got more votes on 08:15 - Jun 10 with 5955 views | Radlett_blue |
| So the left got more votes on 07:44 - Jun 10 by imsureazzure |
800k Scots elected 34 MP,S.
Over represented, no doubt. |
Especially as they have their own Parliament, with extensive powers. |  |
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| So the left got more votes on 09:35 - Jun 10 with 5898 views | Guthrum |
"The Left" is not really a thing. It's a collection of different and competing parties, often with incompatible policies (e.g. LD and SNP anti-Brexit, Labour pro).
It is a concept much beloved of Labour supporters who know that if such an alliance were ever cobbled together, they are the ones who will be heading and running it. If everyone else were that keen, they'd all have joined the one party. These are often also the people who decry the 2010-15 coalition of the centre-right as illegitimate (and set out to punish the weaker of those two parties for becoming involved).
It's also very much left over from last-century Thatcherism, when being "anti-Tory" was a thing.
The main parties are now merely brand names from a hundred years ago fighting over pretty much the same patch of turf. The very fact that policymakers are thinking in retail terms such as "giveaways" to attract voters suggests the entire process is bankrupt.
Can we possibly ditch these obsolescent Left-Right labels and, Macron-like, try to create new systems and structures more suited to the first quarter of the 21st century? |  |
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| So the left got more votes on 09:41 - Jun 10 with 5883 views | Swansea_Blue |
| So the left got more votes on 09:35 - Jun 10 by Guthrum |
"The Left" is not really a thing. It's a collection of different and competing parties, often with incompatible policies (e.g. LD and SNP anti-Brexit, Labour pro).
It is a concept much beloved of Labour supporters who know that if such an alliance were ever cobbled together, they are the ones who will be heading and running it. If everyone else were that keen, they'd all have joined the one party. These are often also the people who decry the 2010-15 coalition of the centre-right as illegitimate (and set out to punish the weaker of those two parties for becoming involved).
It's also very much left over from last-century Thatcherism, when being "anti-Tory" was a thing.
The main parties are now merely brand names from a hundred years ago fighting over pretty much the same patch of turf. The very fact that policymakers are thinking in retail terms such as "giveaways" to attract voters suggests the entire process is bankrupt.
Can we possibly ditch these obsolescent Left-Right labels and, Macron-like, try to create new systems and structures more suited to the first quarter of the 21st century? |
Indeed.
Although anti-Tory is very much still a thing. Both in the electorate as shown by the strength of feelings and in the parties themselves as shown by parties not fielding candidates to avoid diluting the anti-Tory vote. Given May presented herself as a 21st Century Iron Lady, they shouldn't be surprised. |  |
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| So the left got more votes on 09:42 - Jun 10 with 5879 views | bluelagos |
| So the left got more votes on 09:35 - Jun 10 by Guthrum |
"The Left" is not really a thing. It's a collection of different and competing parties, often with incompatible policies (e.g. LD and SNP anti-Brexit, Labour pro).
It is a concept much beloved of Labour supporters who know that if such an alliance were ever cobbled together, they are the ones who will be heading and running it. If everyone else were that keen, they'd all have joined the one party. These are often also the people who decry the 2010-15 coalition of the centre-right as illegitimate (and set out to punish the weaker of those two parties for becoming involved).
It's also very much left over from last-century Thatcherism, when being "anti-Tory" was a thing.
The main parties are now merely brand names from a hundred years ago fighting over pretty much the same patch of turf. The very fact that policymakers are thinking in retail terms such as "giveaways" to attract voters suggests the entire process is bankrupt.
Can we possibly ditch these obsolescent Left-Right labels and, Macron-like, try to create new systems and structures more suited to the first quarter of the 21st century? |
New systems....like a fair voting system that no longer serves the Tory/Lab parties at the expense of fair representation for millons of voters? [Post edited 10 Jun 2017 9:46]
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| So the left got more votes on 09:46 - Jun 10 with 5864 views | bluelagos |
| So the left got more votes on 09:35 - Jun 10 by Guthrum |
"The Left" is not really a thing. It's a collection of different and competing parties, often with incompatible policies (e.g. LD and SNP anti-Brexit, Labour pro).
It is a concept much beloved of Labour supporters who know that if such an alliance were ever cobbled together, they are the ones who will be heading and running it. If everyone else were that keen, they'd all have joined the one party. These are often also the people who decry the 2010-15 coalition of the centre-right as illegitimate (and set out to punish the weaker of those two parties for becoming involved).
It's also very much left over from last-century Thatcherism, when being "anti-Tory" was a thing.
The main parties are now merely brand names from a hundred years ago fighting over pretty much the same patch of turf. The very fact that policymakers are thinking in retail terms such as "giveaways" to attract voters suggests the entire process is bankrupt.
Can we possibly ditch these obsolescent Left-Right labels and, Macron-like, try to create new systems and structures more suited to the first quarter of the 21st century? |
Given that the Tories have delivered a Bruckup that could severely impact our economy for decades to come, I'd suggest Dave and Theresa have reignited anti-Tory feelings for many voters. Especially younger voters who largely favoured a pro-EU future. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 09:46 - Jun 10 with 5861 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So the left got more votes on 09:35 - Jun 10 by Guthrum |
"The Left" is not really a thing. It's a collection of different and competing parties, often with incompatible policies (e.g. LD and SNP anti-Brexit, Labour pro).
It is a concept much beloved of Labour supporters who know that if such an alliance were ever cobbled together, they are the ones who will be heading and running it. If everyone else were that keen, they'd all have joined the one party. These are often also the people who decry the 2010-15 coalition of the centre-right as illegitimate (and set out to punish the weaker of those two parties for becoming involved).
It's also very much left over from last-century Thatcherism, when being "anti-Tory" was a thing.
The main parties are now merely brand names from a hundred years ago fighting over pretty much the same patch of turf. The very fact that policymakers are thinking in retail terms such as "giveaways" to attract voters suggests the entire process is bankrupt.
Can we possibly ditch these obsolescent Left-Right labels and, Macron-like, try to create new systems and structures more suited to the first quarter of the 21st century? |
In my mind that last sentence translates as government for transnational corporations ! |  |
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| So the left got more votes on 09:48 - Jun 10 with 5854 views | No9 |
| So the left got more votes on 09:35 - Jun 10 by Guthrum |
"The Left" is not really a thing. It's a collection of different and competing parties, often with incompatible policies (e.g. LD and SNP anti-Brexit, Labour pro).
It is a concept much beloved of Labour supporters who know that if such an alliance were ever cobbled together, they are the ones who will be heading and running it. If everyone else were that keen, they'd all have joined the one party. These are often also the people who decry the 2010-15 coalition of the centre-right as illegitimate (and set out to punish the weaker of those two parties for becoming involved).
It's also very much left over from last-century Thatcherism, when being "anti-Tory" was a thing.
The main parties are now merely brand names from a hundred years ago fighting over pretty much the same patch of turf. The very fact that policymakers are thinking in retail terms such as "giveaways" to attract voters suggests the entire process is bankrupt.
Can we possibly ditch these obsolescent Left-Right labels and, Macron-like, try to create new systems and structures more suited to the first quarter of the 21st century? |
Not while we have the country as divided as it is an not until people get, at least, some basic edcuation on politics and political history | | | |
| So the left got more votes on 09:52 - Jun 10 with 5827 views | Guthrum |
| So the left got more votes on 09:41 - Jun 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Indeed.
Although anti-Tory is very much still a thing. Both in the electorate as shown by the strength of feelings and in the parties themselves as shown by parties not fielding candidates to avoid diluting the anti-Tory vote. Given May presented herself as a 21st Century Iron Lady, they shouldn't be surprised. |
That was really only the Greens. And UKIP did the same thing to avoid diluting Conservative votes.
Besides which, the "anti-the-other-side" thing is rubbish. It's not a football match, we're trying to arrange the government of the country.
It really annoys me that we have a political system where at any time half the available ministerial talent is excluded simply by virtue of subscribing to the wrong brand and anyone cooperating or crossing the floor is condemned as a "traitor".
Unfortunately, Thatcher is the only role model upon which a woman Prime Minister can draw - the media will do it even if she doesn't. May is anything but another Iron Lady - she is neither strident nor ideological enough. Not sufficiently strong or stable, either. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 09:53 - Jun 10 with 5820 views | Radlett_blue |
| So the left got more votes on 09:41 - Jun 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Indeed.
Although anti-Tory is very much still a thing. Both in the electorate as shown by the strength of feelings and in the parties themselves as shown by parties not fielding candidates to avoid diluting the anti-Tory vote. Given May presented herself as a 21st Century Iron Lady, they shouldn't be surprised. |
The re-emergence of the young as a potent electoral force should be a huge wake-up call for the Tories. They need a different leader (definitely not Boris or Davis) & a real re-think about policies. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 10:04 - Jun 10 with 5798 views | Guthrum |
| So the left got more votes on 09:42 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
New systems....like a fair voting system that no longer serves the Tory/Lab parties at the expense of fair representation for millons of voters? [Post edited 10 Jun 2017 9:46]
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Yes.
I'm rather torn on how that could be done, given that pure, national PR would break the (for me) essential link between the locally-selected representative and their constituency. MPs are, after all, supposed to be our proxies in Westminster, carrying thence the views and issues which matter to us.
If merely a name on a centrally-approved list, they would become uniform party apparatchiks, looking to the leadership rather than local concerns. Gone would be the individual mavericks like Ken Clarke.
My inclination is towards a simplified hybrid concept - larger contituencies each returning a number of MPs elected by PR within those units. Still only needs the one vote being cast, retains the local link for MPs. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 10:05 - Jun 10 with 5792 views | Guthrum |
| So the left got more votes on 09:48 - Jun 10 by No9 |
Not while we have the country as divided as it is an not until people get, at least, some basic edcuation on politics and political history |
Education is key. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 10:09 - Jun 10 with 5783 views | Guthrum |
| So the left got more votes on 09:46 - Jun 10 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In my mind that last sentence translates as government for transnational corporations ! |
I was humming and hawing as to whether to use Macron's name in my post. I meant it more in the sense of breaking traditional party and political structures (the "Left" - "Right" divide was even more entrenched and ossified in France than here), than his background or policy platforms.
Besides which, we'll have to wait and see what he actually does. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 10:15 - Jun 10 with 5756 views | Guthrum |
| So the left got more votes on 09:53 - Jun 10 by Radlett_blue |
The re-emergence of the young as a potent electoral force should be a huge wake-up call for the Tories. They need a different leader (definitely not Boris or Davis) & a real re-think about policies. |
I find it interesting how Ruth Davidson has managed to energise the Conservative Party in Scotland (13 seats in the GE, second-largest party in the Scottish Parliament). | |
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| So the left got more votes on 10:20 - Jun 10 with 5742 views | bluelagos |
| So the left got more votes on 10:04 - Jun 10 by Guthrum |
Yes.
I'm rather torn on how that could be done, given that pure, national PR would break the (for me) essential link between the locally-selected representative and their constituency. MPs are, after all, supposed to be our proxies in Westminster, carrying thence the views and issues which matter to us.
If merely a name on a centrally-approved list, they would become uniform party apparatchiks, looking to the leadership rather than local concerns. Gone would be the individual mavericks like Ken Clarke.
My inclination is towards a simplified hybrid concept - larger contituencies each returning a number of MPs elected by PR within those units. Still only needs the one vote being cast, retains the local link for MPs. |
The top up system seems easy and retains links of MP to constituency. Say 400 FPTP constituencies with 200 extra MPs from party lists to deliver PR totals. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 10:28 - Jun 10 with 5723 views | Guthrum |
| So the left got more votes on 10:20 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
The top up system seems easy and retains links of MP to constituency. Say 400 FPTP constituencies with 200 extra MPs from party lists to deliver PR totals. |
Yes, that works (quite well in Scotland and Germany, for example). Altho the British electorate (or at least the media) will probably squawk at the potential confusion over the "difficult" task of having to cast two votes at every election. | |
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| So the left got more votes on 11:10 - Jun 10 with 5673 views | BorisOrTrevor |
| So the left got more votes on 09:35 - Jun 10 by Guthrum |
"The Left" is not really a thing. It's a collection of different and competing parties, often with incompatible policies (e.g. LD and SNP anti-Brexit, Labour pro).
It is a concept much beloved of Labour supporters who know that if such an alliance were ever cobbled together, they are the ones who will be heading and running it. If everyone else were that keen, they'd all have joined the one party. These are often also the people who decry the 2010-15 coalition of the centre-right as illegitimate (and set out to punish the weaker of those two parties for becoming involved).
It's also very much left over from last-century Thatcherism, when being "anti-Tory" was a thing.
The main parties are now merely brand names from a hundred years ago fighting over pretty much the same patch of turf. The very fact that policymakers are thinking in retail terms such as "giveaways" to attract voters suggests the entire process is bankrupt.
Can we possibly ditch these obsolescent Left-Right labels and, Macron-like, try to create new systems and structures more suited to the first quarter of the 21st century? |
Good post Guthrum. |  |
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