| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... 13:31 - May 18 with 17436 views | itfcjoe |
...and countless other examples.
Until the hard left drops this pathetic talk then they are not going to win over the floating voters.
All it does is further put up the shields for those who have or do vote Tory. The Tories want the best for the country but just have a different way of going about achieving that. |  |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:02 - May 19 with 2563 views | Dolly2.0 |
You're talking about old (new) Labour. I've never supported them. I certainly didn't support Tony Blair and his illegal war. I'm only new to Labour, as you well know.
I've not said it's exclusively Tories up to this in any case. But their policies have always lent towards helping big business, the rich and privileged. So you can see why they're more likely.
This current Labour lot are attacking big business and high earners. They're clearly not doing that to feather their nest later on are they? |  |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:07 - May 19 with 2550 views | Gromheort |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:02 - May 19 by Dolly2.0 |
You're talking about old (new) Labour. I've never supported them. I certainly didn't support Tony Blair and his illegal war. I'm only new to Labour, as you well know.
I've not said it's exclusively Tories up to this in any case. But their policies have always lent towards helping big business, the rich and privileged. So you can see why they're more likely.
This current Labour lot are attacking big business and high earners. They're clearly not doing that to feather their nest later on are they? |
Some evidence into Tory versus Labour...
"we find that serving in office almost doubled the wealth of Conservative MPs, but had no discernible financial benefits for Labour MPs. Conservative MPs profited from office largely through lucrative outside employment they acquired as a result of their political positions" (Eggers and Hainmueller, 2009, MPs for Sale? Returns to Office in Postwar British Politics) |  | | |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:09 - May 19 with 2518 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:02 - May 19 by Dolly2.0 |
You're talking about old (new) Labour. I've never supported them. I certainly didn't support Tony Blair and his illegal war. I'm only new to Labour, as you well know.
I've not said it's exclusively Tories up to this in any case. But their policies have always lent towards helping big business, the rich and privileged. So you can see why they're more likely.
This current Labour lot are attacking big business and high earners. They're clearly not doing that to feather their nest later on are they? |
You can't use the "it's old/new Labour" get out. |  |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:26 - May 19 with 2518 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:07 - May 19 by Gromheort |
Some evidence into Tory versus Labour...
"we find that serving in office almost doubled the wealth of Conservative MPs, but had no discernible financial benefits for Labour MPs. Conservative MPs profited from office largely through lucrative outside employment they acquired as a result of their political positions" (Eggers and Hainmueller, 2009, MPs for Sale? Returns to Office in Postwar British Politics) |
Cheers. | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:30 - May 19 with 2504 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:09 - May 19 by GlasgowBlue |
You can't use the "it's old/new Labour" get out. |
Why?
I've never supported them. You can do one of your searches, you won't find a single bit of praise for Tony Blair from me.
At the end of the day, they were Tory-lite. Which actually backs up my point. | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:44 - May 19 with 2468 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:30 - May 19 by Dolly2.0 |
Why?
I've never supported them. You can do one of your searches, you won't find a single bit of praise for Tony Blair from me.
At the end of the day, they were Tory-lite. Which actually backs up my point. |
Your OP said Labour. Not new. Not old.
And considering the current leadership of the Labour Parry hasn't been in government you can hardly hold them up as an example of "look at who ends up as non-executive directors on the boards of big business"
You may as well hold Mickey Mouse up as an example as he has never been a government minster either.
The fact remains that former ministers from both Labour and Conservative have walked into cushy jobs on the boards of companies when they have left office. | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:49 - May 19 with 2477 views | Ryorry |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 11:55 - May 19 by Josebadleg |
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I wish! |  |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:19 - May 19 with 2446 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:44 - May 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Your OP said Labour. Not new. Not old.
And considering the current leadership of the Labour Parry hasn't been in government you can hardly hold them up as an example of "look at who ends up as non-executive directors on the boards of big business"
You may as well hold Mickey Mouse up as an example as he has never been a government minster either.
The fact remains that former ministers from both Labour and Conservative have walked into cushy jobs on the boards of companies when they have left office. |
What about the point that Tory policies generally benefit big business more than Labour policies, and so there's a conflict of interest?
I'm not saying Labour politicians are blameless (you've listed a few that clearly had a conflict of interest) but you must agree it's worse on the Tory side given they skew their policies to benefit those big businesses?
Labour policies (generally) are to the benefit of all, not the big businesses they're likely to go into when they leave office. You must agree that makes the Tories look much more corrupt and corruptible? | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:23 - May 19 with 2436 views | Yaffle |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 12:07 - May 19 by Gromheort |
Some evidence into Tory versus Labour...
"we find that serving in office almost doubled the wealth of Conservative MPs, but had no discernible financial benefits for Labour MPs. Conservative MPs profited from office largely through lucrative outside employment they acquired as a result of their political positions" (Eggers and Hainmueller, 2009, MPs for Sale? Returns to Office in Postwar British Politics) |
Glasgow Blue you accidentally forgot to reply to this post. I thought you would like a brief reminder.... |  | | |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:42 - May 19 with 2399 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:19 - May 19 by Dolly2.0 |
What about the point that Tory policies generally benefit big business more than Labour policies, and so there's a conflict of interest?
I'm not saying Labour politicians are blameless (you've listed a few that clearly had a conflict of interest) but you must agree it's worse on the Tory side given they skew their policies to benefit those big businesses?
Labour policies (generally) are to the benefit of all, not the big businesses they're likely to go into when they leave office. You must agree that makes the Tories look much more corrupt and corruptible? |
Tories take the view that thriving business creates jobs which benefits everybody. So yes, they do enact more business friendly policies.
Tories also believe that taxation is a means to pay for our services rather than a tool to punish the rich. They therefore set income tax rates generally lower than Labour do (excluding New Labour), in the belief that lower tax rates encourage people to work harder and earn more money without being punished.
Each time the Tories have lowered the top rate of tax, percentage of tax take from the highest earners went up. In 1986-87, the best-paid 1% in the country contributed just 14% of all income tax. Once the top rate fell from 60p to 40p, the proportion paid by the richest 1% cent soared to 21% where it stayed.
Lower taxes lead to higher tax take from the rich. You can't argue against those figures.
But getting back to the poorest in society. When Gordon Brown left office in 2010 you could only earn £6,475 . This year you can earn £11,500 before being taxed. And by 2020 it will be £12,500. | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:45 - May 19 with 2394 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:23 - May 19 by Yaffle |
Glasgow Blue you accidentally forgot to reply to this post. I thought you would like a brief reminder.... |
I don't reply to Gromfart. He never answers direct questions and everything he posts is straight out of a textbook. | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:49 - May 19 with 2405 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:42 - May 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Tories take the view that thriving business creates jobs which benefits everybody. So yes, they do enact more business friendly policies.
Tories also believe that taxation is a means to pay for our services rather than a tool to punish the rich. They therefore set income tax rates generally lower than Labour do (excluding New Labour), in the belief that lower tax rates encourage people to work harder and earn more money without being punished.
Each time the Tories have lowered the top rate of tax, percentage of tax take from the highest earners went up. In 1986-87, the best-paid 1% in the country contributed just 14% of all income tax. Once the top rate fell from 60p to 40p, the proportion paid by the richest 1% cent soared to 21% where it stayed.
Lower taxes lead to higher tax take from the rich. You can't argue against those figures.
But getting back to the poorest in society. When Gordon Brown left office in 2010 you could only earn £6,475 . This year you can earn £11,500 before being taxed. And by 2020 it will be £12,500. |
Whilst the tax threshold may have been increased, the reduction in benefits has seen a huge drop in income for the poorest. Below are graphs showing the effect of the 2010-2015 government on household incomes. Note that the tax reforms actually took money away from the poorest 10% and most benefitted middle earners.
 |  | | |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:49 - May 19 with 2402 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:42 - May 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Tories take the view that thriving business creates jobs which benefits everybody. So yes, they do enact more business friendly policies.
Tories also believe that taxation is a means to pay for our services rather than a tool to punish the rich. They therefore set income tax rates generally lower than Labour do (excluding New Labour), in the belief that lower tax rates encourage people to work harder and earn more money without being punished.
Each time the Tories have lowered the top rate of tax, percentage of tax take from the highest earners went up. In 1986-87, the best-paid 1% in the country contributed just 14% of all income tax. Once the top rate fell from 60p to 40p, the proportion paid by the richest 1% cent soared to 21% where it stayed.
Lower taxes lead to higher tax take from the rich. You can't argue against those figures.
But getting back to the poorest in society. When Gordon Brown left office in 2010 you could only earn £6,475 . This year you can earn £11,500 before being taxed. And by 2020 it will be £12,500. |
"tories take the view that thriving business creates jobs which benefits everybody."
it isn't only tories who think that. anyone who wants to see prosperity through a mixed economy thinks that.
you've got to be a serious nutter to be anti-business. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:52 - May 19 with 2380 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:49 - May 19 by lowhouseblue |
"tories take the view that thriving business creates jobs which benefits everybody."
it isn't only tories who think that. anyone who wants to see prosperity through a mixed economy thinks that.
you've got to be a serious nutter to be anti-business. |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:56 - May 19 with 2387 views | Ryorry |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:52 - May 19 by GlasgowBlue |
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Now now, I had noticed you've been behaving yourself over the past couple of days, don't go and spoil it!  | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:06 - May 19 with 2371 views | Yaffle |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:45 - May 19 by GlasgowBlue |
I don't reply to Gromfart. He never answers direct questions and everything he posts is straight out of a textbook. |
He wasn't answering or asking a question. He was evidencing something which countered a previous point you had attempted to make.
Having observed your posts, particularly on political threads, I have noticed you have a tendency to be quite selective in what you and do not respond to. Most convenient! | | | |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:16 - May 19 with 2338 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:06 - May 19 by Yaffle |
He wasn't answering or asking a question. He was evidencing something which countered a previous point you had attempted to make.
Having observed your posts, particularly on political threads, I have noticed you have a tendency to be quite selective in what you and do not respond to. Most convenient! |
I just told you I don't reply to him. He's signed up to TWTD for no other push Corbyn's agenda. I doubt he is even a Town fan.
However, you will note that I wasn't trying to paint the Tories whiter than white. I was giving some balance to Dolly's statement "look at who ends up as non-executive directors on the boards of big business" and "One thing's for sure, Labour clearly aren't in it for the money."
It was completely one sided. | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:23 - May 19 with 2331 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 13:49 - May 19 by lowhouseblue |
"tories take the view that thriving business creates jobs which benefits everybody."
it isn't only tories who think that. anyone who wants to see prosperity through a mixed economy thinks that.
you've got to be a serious nutter to be anti-business. |
Similarly anyone who thinks that social equality will automatically come from that is far too hung up on the dogma.
Needs to be a balance with social spending to get the best of both worlds, especially in the long-term rather than quick cash that goes in and then straight out of people's pockets. This means that there are some compromises on both sides to get that balance. That's been out of whack and favouring the free-market, low taxation and austerity ideology for far too long. |  |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:29 - May 19 with 2320 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:23 - May 19 by Darth_Koont |
Similarly anyone who thinks that social equality will automatically come from that is far too hung up on the dogma.
Needs to be a balance with social spending to get the best of both worlds, especially in the long-term rather than quick cash that goes in and then straight out of people's pockets. This means that there are some compromises on both sides to get that balance. That's been out of whack and favouring the free-market, low taxation and austerity ideology for far too long. |
yes, of course. you would equally have to be a complete nutter to believe in unfettered free markets. but we're not really narrowing the field down all that much are we. the anti-bussiness nutters on the hard left and free market psychopaths on the right leaves a lot of us somewhere in between:
"We do not believe in untrammelled free markets. We reject the cult of selfish individualism. We abhor social division, injustice, unfairness and inequality. We see rigid dogma and ideology not just as needless but dangerous. True Conservatism means a commitment to country and community; a belief not just in society but in the good that government can do; a respect for the local and national institutions that bind us together; an insight that change is inevitable and change can be good, but that change should be shaped, through strong leadership and clear principles, for the common good. We know that our responsibility to one another is greater than the rights we hold as individuals. We know that we all have obligations to one another, because that is what community and nation demands. We understand that nobody, however powerful, has succeeded alone and that we all therefore have a debt to others.” | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 15:21 - May 19 with 2283 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:29 - May 19 by lowhouseblue |
yes, of course. you would equally have to be a complete nutter to believe in unfettered free markets. but we're not really narrowing the field down all that much are we. the anti-bussiness nutters on the hard left and free market psychopaths on the right leaves a lot of us somewhere in between:
"We do not believe in untrammelled free markets. We reject the cult of selfish individualism. We abhor social division, injustice, unfairness and inequality. We see rigid dogma and ideology not just as needless but dangerous. True Conservatism means a commitment to country and community; a belief not just in society but in the good that government can do; a respect for the local and national institutions that bind us together; an insight that change is inevitable and change can be good, but that change should be shaped, through strong leadership and clear principles, for the common good. We know that our responsibility to one another is greater than the rights we hold as individuals. We know that we all have obligations to one another, because that is what community and nation demands. We understand that nobody, however powerful, has succeeded alone and that we all therefore have a debt to others.” |
Agreed it ends up somewhere in the middle. But you can't just talk about solving social problems. you need to invest. And with no money available, you need to undoubtedly raise taxes and supposedly "punish" those who are more comfortably off.
It's the avoidance of that discussion let alone the necessary measures themselves in order to be more appealing to middle-class marginals and "win the game" that has caused serious problems for our politics and our country. There's been a complete abdication of responsibility (and common sense logic too) in order to court these votes for political gains. | |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 15:30 - May 19 with 2268 views | lowhouseblue |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 15:21 - May 19 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed it ends up somewhere in the middle. But you can't just talk about solving social problems. you need to invest. And with no money available, you need to undoubtedly raise taxes and supposedly "punish" those who are more comfortably off.
It's the avoidance of that discussion let alone the necessary measures themselves in order to be more appealing to middle-class marginals and "win the game" that has caused serious problems for our politics and our country. There's been a complete abdication of responsibility (and common sense logic too) in order to court these votes for political gains. |
yes tax needs to be more progressive. the rich need to contribute more.
but saying that every dream can be funded by 'corporations' and the rich is just as much a way of avoiding that discussion. it's not just the rich who need to pay more and pretending that 'corporations' don't do things that greatly enhance our living standards and that we don't need therefore to be concerned about their prosperity is also dishonest.
the hard left's anti-business rhetoric and their belief that money can be found entirely without pain to everyone else is an easy way of avoiding hard choices. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 15:31 - May 19 with 2261 views | noggin |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 15:30 - May 19 by lowhouseblue |
yes tax needs to be more progressive. the rich need to contribute more.
but saying that every dream can be funded by 'corporations' and the rich is just as much a way of avoiding that discussion. it's not just the rich who need to pay more and pretending that 'corporations' don't do things that greatly enhance our living standards and that we don't need therefore to be concerned about their prosperity is also dishonest.
the hard left's anti-business rhetoric and their belief that money can be found entirely without pain to everyone else is an easy way of avoiding hard choices. |
It was the rich and corporations that got the country into such a bloody mess innit. |  |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 15:44 - May 19 with 2233 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 14:29 - May 19 by lowhouseblue |
yes, of course. you would equally have to be a complete nutter to believe in unfettered free markets. but we're not really narrowing the field down all that much are we. the anti-bussiness nutters on the hard left and free market psychopaths on the right leaves a lot of us somewhere in between:
"We do not believe in untrammelled free markets. We reject the cult of selfish individualism. We abhor social division, injustice, unfairness and inequality. We see rigid dogma and ideology not just as needless but dangerous. True Conservatism means a commitment to country and community; a belief not just in society but in the good that government can do; a respect for the local and national institutions that bind us together; an insight that change is inevitable and change can be good, but that change should be shaped, through strong leadership and clear principles, for the common good. We know that our responsibility to one another is greater than the rights we hold as individuals. We know that we all have obligations to one another, because that is what community and nation demands. We understand that nobody, however powerful, has succeeded alone and that we all therefore have a debt to others.” |
And then there are their actions.........see I told you he was a Tory! |  |
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| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 16:57 - May 19 with 2199 views | Gromheort |
| Nasty Party, Evil, taking pride in f*cking over the poor and needy.... on 15:30 - May 19 by lowhouseblue |
yes tax needs to be more progressive. the rich need to contribute more.
but saying that every dream can be funded by 'corporations' and the rich is just as much a way of avoiding that discussion. it's not just the rich who need to pay more and pretending that 'corporations' don't do things that greatly enhance our living standards and that we don't need therefore to be concerned about their prosperity is also dishonest.
the hard left's anti-business rhetoric and their belief that money can be found entirely without pain to everyone else is an easy way of avoiding hard choices. |
I'll forgive the nonsense of the Hard Left tag. But could you give examples of this perceived anti-business rhetoric? | | | |
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