| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 15:45 - Jul 29 with 2456 views | itfcjoe |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 15:39 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Certainly think the relationship should have been managed better by the club - and I think things were already too far gone before that season started - but I'm not sure anyone felt able to challenge MM when it came to dealing with the media/general public relations. |
Well we won the first 4 or 5 games of the season and then lost at home to Fulham(?) and were booed off so think that surprised them with how far gone it was.
But if the chairman has the perfect manager for his plan, then he needs to do everything in his power to keep him in position and placate everything around him - he did nothing and now has lost money hand over fist for 2 years. |  |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 15:58 - Jul 29 with 2424 views | noggin |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 09:42 - Jul 29 by Jambo |
It all got very awful at the end. I remember casually asking someone who did they think we would get who was a) better than MM and b) had the same level of credibility.
I was told that we are Ipswich Town and that we can get anyone we bloody like....
Turns out we did. And he was shiote.
Like HarryfromBath said - Hurst took a baseball bat to an excellent team and we should not forget that. |
Excellent team? Oh please.. |  |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 16:03 - Jul 29 with 2414 views | Coco |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 15:41 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Certainly agree with that, and I'd like us to be a club where a manager develops and builds his reputation again. |
yes, rather than the graveyard we've become. |  |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 16:05 - Jul 29 with 2413 views | Darth_Koont |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 15:01 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
It did take a while for it to be accepted that the division was changing and we were among its poorer relations but I'm not convinced that MM would have looked to foster a 'we're all in it together' mood. Think he aimed for an us and them mentality, the players and staff against the rest approach, from the off with fans and local media on the outside.
I'm not sure I take the Brexit point, wasn't really about looking for an idealistic 'promised land' was more akin to toppling an unpopular leader! |
Sure. I get the Us vs Them but that's a "pissing in the tent" issue. As Joe says, I don't think Mick and the team were against outsiders when things were going well or just average, more that they saw people piling in unfairly.
And I think a lot of that was unfair given the financial context they were operating within.
The Brexit point is connected. By not really looking at the evidence or understanding the context and what could realistically be achieved by changing managers, we've ended up in a far worse place through blind faith and by largely blaming the wrong target. |  |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 17:56 - Jul 29 with 2353 views | PhilTWTD |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 16:05 - Jul 29 by Darth_Koont |
Sure. I get the Us vs Them but that's a "pissing in the tent" issue. As Joe says, I don't think Mick and the team were against outsiders when things were going well or just average, more that they saw people piling in unfairly.
And I think a lot of that was unfair given the financial context they were operating within.
The Brexit point is connected. By not really looking at the evidence or understanding the context and what could realistically be achieved by changing managers, we've ended up in a far worse place through blind faith and by largely blaming the wrong target. |
I'm not sure that some of us in the media were ever seen as anything other than Them from the start.
I don't agree with the last bit. That presupposes that on-field performance in terms of league position was the reason why fans were so desperate for MM to move on when I don't think that was the big issue. Character and attitude towards the fans, as well as style of play, which I think is different to the performance issue, were bigger factors.
Fans wanted a manager who wasn't giving them two fingers, either metaphorically or physically. It wasn't about an unrealistic expectation about what might come next in terms of performance. |  | | |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 17:58 - Jul 29 with 2345 views | Funge |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 12:23 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
He certainly couldn't remain manager for long after that, and actually I think he probably should have been sacked with hindsight and am surprised there wasn't more of a clamour. If it had been, say, Liverpool-Everton and the Everton boss had done that I'm sure he would have gone given the greater profile.
But that was pretty near the end so was among the final nails in the coffin, I think the die had been cast long before that with the way MM responded to fans' criticism.
There was never the need to hit back in the antagonistic manner he did. He was never able to take criticism and respond in a measured way, and from my perspective questions which weren't intended to be criticism were often taken as such. A manager can't just stick his fingers up to fans en masse - literally or metaphorically - however critical a section of the support might be. |
This is the point.
Forget all the noise about our 'fans' causing the MM departure.
The bloke had been here 5 years, in which time he would've been fully aware of the importance of beating Norwich.
We'd never really threatened to beat them under MM - the previous years 1-1 at Carrow Rd saw the greatest threat to their goal, after Knudsen's header, come from RKD; indeed, when taken in tandem with Wolves' results against WBA under MM, it's difficult to think anything other than MM doesn't really care about derby games.
We finally get the late, late 'winner' (yes, yes, I know...), and his first reaction was to scream FCK OFF at the Towun support.
I don't care about what was sung at him previously that game; that's pretty much as distinct a line in the sand as could wish to be drawn.
Everything else that followed that season was amplified greatly by what happened at Carrow Rd.
EDIT - re: MM derby game views, careless typo on my part [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 18:03]
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 18:01 - Jul 29 with 2337 views | PhilTWTD |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 15:45 - Jul 29 by itfcjoe |
Well we won the first 4 or 5 games of the season and then lost at home to Fulham(?) and were booed off so think that surprised them with how far gone it was.
But if the chairman has the perfect manager for his plan, then he needs to do everything in his power to keep him in position and placate everything around him - he did nothing and now has lost money hand over fist for 2 years. |
I don't recall that game but I don't see that as having been any surprise. The five games gave MM a period of grace at the start of that season before normal service from the previous year resumed.
I don't see MM was the perfect manager for ME's plan, certainly not the plan as it's been stated for the last couple of seasons with youngsters coming through at the heart of it. But at the same time I think ME found it difficult to cut ties with MM as he believed there was a chance of having a 2014/15 type season and going up under his management. | | | |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 18:26 - Jul 29 with 2305 views | Bennytheball |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 10:43 - Jul 29 by homer_123 |
Hurst was allowed to decimate a more than half decent squad....who allowed that to happen? |
I remember this news piece when Hurst was questioned on the extent of changes and seems to suggest that Evans was a bit shocked and questioned the pace of change also - but clearly backed his new manager at the time.
 Hurst: Even Evans Surprised By Extent of Summer Changes 5th Sep 2018 17:11Blues boss Paul Hurst says even owner Marcus Evans was surprised by the changes made to the squad over the summer with 12 players having come in, while Martyn Waghorn, Adam Webster and Joe Garner were among last season's regulars to depart, the likes of David McGoldrick and Luke Hyam having moved on at the end of last season.  41
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 18:48 - Jul 29 with 2263 views | Darth_Koont |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 17:56 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
I'm not sure that some of us in the media were ever seen as anything other than Them from the start.
I don't agree with the last bit. That presupposes that on-field performance in terms of league position was the reason why fans were so desperate for MM to move on when I don't think that was the big issue. Character and attitude towards the fans, as well as style of play, which I think is different to the performance issue, were bigger factors.
Fans wanted a manager who wasn't giving them two fingers, either metaphorically or physically. It wasn't about an unrealistic expectation about what might come next in terms of performance. |
Well, that's harsh if you were lumped in with that. Your match reports and reporting seem refreshingly straight. And you're certainly not representative of or responsible for some of the more batsh!t opinions on the forum.
I can certainly imagine that Mick is the old school type who doesn't have a lot of time or respect for those outside the game. Which isn't the best media management strategy. But I still think the majority of fans and a few in the media missed the overall context and why he probably resented some of the criticism.
Looking on from the outside, it seemed to me that essentially everyone wanted the same thing so the enmity seemed a bit unnecessary and counter-productive. | |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 19:22 - Jul 29 with 2235 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
I like Mick, did a sterling job on a budget here. I would suggest it was the succession of Mick that was more pivotal to this clubs downfall than Mick leaving itself.
Cor, it was like going to a funeral at Portman Road though during the backend of Mick's time here, no life, no soul, no atmosphere, was incredibly dull.
Was right for Mick to leave, although 12 months too late in my opinion. But I don't think Evans wanted to pay up that remaining year in his contract (let alone 4 year contract for Lambert by the way!) |  |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 19:27 - Jul 29 with 2231 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 11:34 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
I don't think MM leaving was wrong, whatever's happened since. How many season ticket holders would we have had the following season? How long might it taken for them to come back? Whether MM was popular with the players, which he evidently was, he'd become box office poison.
It wasn't about position in the league - and clearly we punched above our weight on a position to wage bill basis - or ultimately about style of football but about the attitude shown to supporters (and some of us in the media for that matter, if he'd have stayed on much longer I think I'd have been looking for something else to do).
At the same time, some of the abuse was certainly over the top, particularly at Brentford when he'd already said he was going (which I actually think he knew would be the case at the start of the season). There was no need for people to stick the boot in. |
Phil can you recall the Season Ticket renewals for the 17/18 season (Mick's final year).
Would be interesting to see how they compare to the forthcoming year given we are a division below and no certainty of even attending? | |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 19:39 - Jul 29 with 2221 views | itfcjoe |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 18:01 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
I don't recall that game but I don't see that as having been any surprise. The five games gave MM a period of grace at the start of that season before normal service from the previous year resumed.
I don't see MM was the perfect manager for ME's plan, certainly not the plan as it's been stated for the last couple of seasons with youngsters coming through at the heart of it. But at the same time I think ME found it difficult to cut ties with MM as he believed there was a chance of having a 2014/15 type season and going up under his management. |
I think the opportunities given by youngsters by Mick was very much understated though - and was very different in the second half of his reign compared to the first half - but it's all by the by now, Lambert has a lot to prove in this regard, and hopefully not too much recruitment this summer and some attempt to make use of what he has would suit me more personally | |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:05 - Jul 29 with 2198 views | PhilTWTD |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 19:39 - Jul 29 by itfcjoe |
I think the opportunities given by youngsters by Mick was very much understated though - and was very different in the second half of his reign compared to the first half - but it's all by the by now, Lambert has a lot to prove in this regard, and hopefully not too much recruitment this summer and some attempt to make use of what he has would suit me more personally |
Definitely think PL has to show more of an inclination to use the younger players, not just the odd game here and there and Leasing.com Trophy matches.
What I mean re MM is that he's not someone you'd employ to build and develop a team over a number of years utilising the academy in the manner of George Burley, for example. His approach was very year to year, 13 new recruits each summer, no real long-term planning. | | | |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:08 - Jul 29 with 2193 views | PhilTWTD |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 19:27 - Jul 29 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Phil can you recall the Season Ticket renewals for the 17/18 season (Mick's final year).
Would be interesting to see how they compare to the forthcoming year given we are a division below and no certainty of even attending? |
About 10,000 I think, around 1,000 more than now when season tickets have only been made available to existing season ticket holders with no guarantee of any football. | | | |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:12 - Jul 29 with 2190 views | itfcjoe |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:05 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Definitely think PL has to show more of an inclination to use the younger players, not just the odd game here and there and Leasing.com Trophy matches.
What I mean re MM is that he's not someone you'd employ to build and develop a team over a number of years utilising the academy in the manner of George Burley, for example. His approach was very year to year, 13 new recruits each summer, no real long-term planning. |
True, I do think we missed a trick with getting Burley to have some sort of involvement post MM, he is a manager who truly believes in the youth and did so at every club he was at - what was allowed to happen in that summer with Hurst was absolute suicide for the club in both the short and long term | |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:17 - Jul 29 with 2181 views | PhilTWTD |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:12 - Jul 29 by itfcjoe |
True, I do think we missed a trick with getting Burley to have some sort of involvement post MM, he is a manager who truly believes in the youth and did so at every club he was at - what was allowed to happen in that summer with Hurst was absolute suicide for the club in both the short and long term |
Maybe a consultancy role, similar to the one Charlie Woods used to have. His approach is definitely the one we need now. | | | |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:38 - Jul 29 with 2157 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:08 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
About 10,000 I think, around 1,000 more than now when season tickets have only been made available to existing season ticket holders with no guarantee of any football. |
Wow. Shows a little story within itself. | |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:47 - Jul 29 with 2148 views | itfcjoe |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:17 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Maybe a consultancy role, similar to the one Charlie Woods used to have. His approach is definitely the one we need now. |
And we’ve appointed two managers since Mick, after the plan had been supposedly formalised, who have no track record in bringing players through at all. And gave one a 5 year contract after he hadn’t been doing it | |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 21:19 - Jul 29 with 2123 views | radiogaga |
He did a fantastic job for us on a shoestring budget but things had run their course after 5 and a half years, as happens with all managers.
The time for a change was right, we just got the changes badly wrong. Hindsight doesn't justify that we should have persevered with something that an alarming amount of fans had lost interest in watching. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 21:24]
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 22:07 - Jul 29 with 2087 views | patrickswell |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:05 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Definitely think PL has to show more of an inclination to use the younger players, not just the odd game here and there and Leasing.com Trophy matches.
What I mean re MM is that he's not someone you'd employ to build and develop a team over a number of years utilising the academy in the manner of George Burley, for example. His approach was very year to year, 13 new recruits each summer, no real long-term planning. |
But that’s not true when looking at the ages and stages of development that signings he made post 2015 were at. Their impacts may have varied but the likes of Knudsen, Webster, Ward, Pitman, Waghorn, Huws and Adeyemi were all of a age where they were either hitting their peaks or still had room to develop. Unfortunately, Evans was only prepared to invest in the likes of Ward and Webster, instead of getting Tom Lawrence, a man who could have won 12 points a season on his own.
We’ve spoken before about how the outstanding Academy talents of the period found their progress impeded by injury, but plenty of them got game time. |  | | |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 22:29 - Jul 29 with 2069 views | Herbivore |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 20:05 - Jul 29 by PhilTWTD |
Definitely think PL has to show more of an inclination to use the younger players, not just the odd game here and there and Leasing.com Trophy matches.
What I mean re MM is that he's not someone you'd employ to build and develop a team over a number of years utilising the academy in the manner of George Burley, for example. His approach was very year to year, 13 new recruits each summer, no real long-term planning. |
The core of the side largely remained the same though. Player turnover looks high but when you have no money you tend to take more punts on squad filler and that's where most of the churn was. |  |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 12:42 - Jul 30 with 1977 views | Garv |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 19:22 - Jul 29 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
I like Mick, did a sterling job on a budget here. I would suggest it was the succession of Mick that was more pivotal to this clubs downfall than Mick leaving itself.
Cor, it was like going to a funeral at Portman Road though during the backend of Mick's time here, no life, no soul, no atmosphere, was incredibly dull.
Was right for Mick to leave, although 12 months too late in my opinion. But I don't think Evans wanted to pay up that remaining year in his contract (let alone 4 year contract for Lambert by the way!) |
This is it. If Evans had had any interest in the club progressing he would have made a positive change at that time and we would have avoided the rubbish and ugly scenes during the second half of 2017/18. |  |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 12:48 - Jul 30 with 1973 views | Herbivore |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 12:42 - Jul 30 by Garv |
This is it. If Evans had had any interest in the club progressing he would have made a positive change at that time and we would have avoided the rubbish and ugly scenes during the second half of 2017/18. |
And we'd probably have ended up in League 1 a year sooner rather than midtable in the Championship with a much stronger looking squad. | |
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| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 12:57 - Jul 30 with 1968 views | PJH |
| The pivotal time in the history of a club on 12:48 - Jul 30 by Herbivore |
And we'd probably have ended up in League 1 a year sooner rather than midtable in the Championship with a much stronger looking squad. |
But apart from that..... |  | | |
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