| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. 22:44 - Feb 14 with 15881 views | GlasgowBlue |
KM came in last year when the club was at its lowest ebb. We were badly underperforming and the defeat to Charlton was as low as it could get.
He had an instant positive effect and got a talented squad playing some lovely football, and we had belief back in the team. Everything coming out of the dressing room suggested that training was far better and that the new manager was like a great of fresh air. This was even said by players after he let them go, like a Norwood and Bonne.
That carried over to this season and we got off to a flyer. Joe will have the exact stats but after 46 games McKenna had us on something like 88 points. Just short of automatic promotion form.
Everything looked good. Ok we had a dip in form, illness and injuries but got ourselves back to the top of the table a week before Christmas. Despite a defeat to Wycombe we followed it up with a convincing Boxing Day thrashing of Oxford, playing sone of our best football of the season.
There was nothing to suggest that we would take a massive dip in form. But we did. Maybe the cup games papered over the cracks, but we weren’t playing with the same intensity and confidence as the first third of the season.
Something has changed within the team. Is it a lack of confidence? And if so where has that come from? I don’t agree that we haven’t got over Charlton, as we had some good results after that game, though not enough. Was it the last minute equaliser at home to Plymouth? That really seems to have knocked the stuffing out of us.
Is it the constant tinkering with our central defence? I understand why he’s done it because as individuals all of our central defenders have been culpable in giving away some very easy goals.
Is it the midfield? Before Evans first injury, him and Morsy were running the show. Humphreys came in and played some good games but Morsy’s game seemed to suffer. He was having to do so much more work to cover for a talented but inexperienced youngster. When Evans came back, he wasn’t the same players as the one we saw pre injury. And now he’s out again. Morsy looks absolutely knackered playing on a Saturday and Tuesday.
One thing I have noticed in recent games is that our midfield isn’t as dynamic and dominant as in previous games. They set the tempo for the rest of the team and we no longer play with pace and intensity. Everything seems to have slowed down. We’ve even started to pump long balls from the back and completely bypass the midfield.
Does anyone else have a view on why we have hit a brick wall and started drawing games instead of winning them?
[Post edited 14 Feb 2023 22:48]
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:49 - Feb 14 with 8400 views | J2BLUE |
The one dimensional style of play and complete lack of urgency.
I just don't understand why, game after game, we are so slow and never really seem to get going. Late on in games where we need a goal we are still knocking it around the back four. Draws are killing us. Even if we really went for it and lost the odd game, a win is still worth three draws.
It's really odd and worrying. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:53 - Feb 14 with 8310 views | RegencyBlue |
We’ve been sussed out!
We play one way and when that doesn’t work there is nothing else. It’s easier on the eye at times than Paul Cooks one way of playing but the problem is fundamentally the same.
No plan B! |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:53 - Feb 14 with 8276 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:49 - Feb 14 by J2BLUE |
The one dimensional style of play and complete lack of urgency.
I just don't understand why, game after game, we are so slow and never really seem to get going. Late on in games where we need a goal we are still knocking it around the back four. Draws are killing us. Even if we really went for it and lost the odd game, a win is still worth three draws.
It's really odd and worrying. |
Can I add too many players bought in similar positions too?
The squad is horribly bloated, and a handful of them are still injured, and will add even more competition for places. It leads McKenna to constantly have to rotate players.
Plus, we are setting up to play League one football, with Championship players and a Premier League style, thats not worked for a whole succession of teams, who eventually had to get players used to playing at this level. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:55 - Feb 14 with 8238 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:49 - Feb 14 by J2BLUE |
The one dimensional style of play and complete lack of urgency.
I just don't understand why, game after game, we are so slow and never really seem to get going. Late on in games where we need a goal we are still knocking it around the back four. Draws are killing us. Even if we really went for it and lost the odd game, a win is still worth three draws.
It's really odd and worrying. |
I’d hope that the realisation that the top two is now unlikely will see us be more adventurous and accept the odd defeat it it means more wins. The reigns should really come off now and find some form going into the play offs. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:55 - Feb 14 with 8244 views | Illinoisblue |
The squad is bloated. Too many players of similar ilk rotate in and out to no great effect. No time to build on-field connections.
Players that were 8/10 last season are turning in 6/10 performances.
I love KMac and we should keep the faith but I bet Ashton and the American overlords already have plans lined up for a replacement scenario. Cook was on a short leash. Don’t think KMac’s will be much longer.
Charlton the death of this season. This is the mourning period. Funeral to be held late April [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 22:57]
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:57 - Feb 14 with 8173 views | SitfcB |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:49 - Feb 14 by J2BLUE |
The one dimensional style of play and complete lack of urgency.
I just don't understand why, game after game, we are so slow and never really seem to get going. Late on in games where we need a goal we are still knocking it around the back four. Draws are killing us. Even if we really went for it and lost the odd game, a win is still worth three draws.
It's really odd and worrying. |
It’s odd because the first half against Morecambe was brilliant, quick pressing football, looked like we would score every opportunity, then we had the Burnley game, great performance then dire against Cambridge. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:58 - Feb 14 with 8150 views | Plums |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:49 - Feb 14 by J2BLUE |
The one dimensional style of play and complete lack of urgency.
I just don't understand why, game after game, we are so slow and never really seem to get going. Late on in games where we need a goal we are still knocking it around the back four. Draws are killing us. Even if we really went for it and lost the odd game, a win is still worth three draws.
It's really odd and worrying. |
I think you're both correct. It's the midfield and a lack of tempo. Other than Broadhead and Edwards, neither of whom started tonight, nobody wants to take responsibility to drive forward and put pressure on the defence. It's infuriating seeing players with 20 yards of open space in front of them, not carry the ball into it.
You can make things happen or let them happen in life and at the moment, we seem content to do the latter. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:58 - Feb 14 with 8131 views | pointofblue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:55 - Feb 14 by Illinoisblue |
The squad is bloated. Too many players of similar ilk rotate in and out to no great effect. No time to build on-field connections.
Players that were 8/10 last season are turning in 6/10 performances.
I love KMac and we should keep the faith but I bet Ashton and the American overlords already have plans lined up for a replacement scenario. Cook was on a short leash. Don’t think KMac’s will be much longer.
Charlton the death of this season. This is the mourning period. Funeral to be held late April [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 22:57]
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We play Charlton at home on the 15th... |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:01 - Feb 14 with 8092 views | WicklowBlue |
I agree with the OP, instead of bickering can we analyse what has happened and what needs to be done. No doubt McK is well aware of this and is trying to figure out how to Ignite the spark we are missing.
Loads of thoughts here around confidence, constant changes in personel, etc etc
Are some of our key players just knackered and need a rest? Morsy...
Do we need to just change formation during games to surprise the opposition?
We've seriously lost our mojo at a key point of the season. |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:03 - Feb 14 with 8036 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:57 - Feb 14 by SitfcB |
It’s odd because the first half against Morecambe was brilliant, quick pressing football, looked like we would score every opportunity, then we had the Burnley game, great performance then dire against Cambridge. |
"It’s odd because the first half against Morecambe was brilliant, quick pressing football, looked like we would score every opportunity,"
We had that tonight too. For exactly the first four minutes. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:03 - Feb 14 with 8014 views | pointofblue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:03 - Feb 14 by Cheltenham_Blue |
"It’s odd because the first half against Morecambe was brilliant, quick pressing football, looked like we would score every opportunity,"
We had that tonight too. For exactly the first four minutes. |
Difference between Morecambe and Bristol Rovers? We scored against the former within that time period. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:04 - Feb 14 with 8015 views | Radlett_blue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:01 - Feb 14 by WicklowBlue |
I agree with the OP, instead of bickering can we analyse what has happened and what needs to be done. No doubt McK is well aware of this and is trying to figure out how to Ignite the spark we are missing.
Loads of thoughts here around confidence, constant changes in personel, etc etc
Are some of our key players just knackered and need a rest? Morsy...
Do we need to just change formation during games to surprise the opposition?
We've seriously lost our mojo at a key point of the season. |
These decisions are up to the manager & over the last 14 games he's been making a pretty poor fist of it. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:06 - Feb 14 with 7960 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:03 - Feb 14 by Cheltenham_Blue |
"It’s odd because the first half against Morecambe was brilliant, quick pressing football, looked like we would score every opportunity,"
We had that tonight too. For exactly the first four minutes. |
A sliding doors moment was Harness blocking the Burgess effort. It was going in. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:07 - Feb 14 with 7936 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:55 - Feb 14 by Illinoisblue |
The squad is bloated. Too many players of similar ilk rotate in and out to no great effect. No time to build on-field connections.
Players that were 8/10 last season are turning in 6/10 performances.
I love KMac and we should keep the faith but I bet Ashton and the American overlords already have plans lined up for a replacement scenario. Cook was on a short leash. Don’t think KMac’s will be much longer.
Charlton the death of this season. This is the mourning period. Funeral to be held late April [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 22:57]
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Yep squad is ridiculous size wise and thst rarely works see Chelsea |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:07 - Feb 14 with 7884 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:06 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue |
A sliding doors moment was Harness blocking the Burgess effort. It was going in. |
Best control of the night from Harness that. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:13 - Feb 14 with 7821 views | Radlett_blue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:03 - Feb 14 by pointofblue |
Difference between Morecambe and Bristol Rovers? We scored against the former within that time period. |
an early goal against a poor team makes a big difference to the structure of that game, but we have to find ways of beating poor teams if we don't get an early goal. Carrying on doing the same thing & simpky changing a few like for like players doesn't seem a rational way of doing this. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:14 - Feb 14 with 7796 views | King_ding_a_lin_g |
It's the midfield.
Luongo, Evans, Camara, Ball... four players who, when fit, get in the side ahead of Humphreys.
He shouldn't be being asked to play Saturday, Tuesday at this stage of the season nor in a team which is low on confidence. |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:15 - Feb 14 with 7734 views | FrimleyBlue |
Just a mixture.
KM.. tweaking the side alot. Said himself he was trying different ways of seeing games out.. confused the side?
Subs.. don't to me appear to be aligned with earlier season subs.. tonight like the Cambridge game it was throw on as much attacking players you can and hope it does something. Edwards when right. Then left. I saw him the middle. Clarke on left. Broadhead.. what is his actual position?
Player performance. Yes I've been very vocal. But the key players to our play are just not performing.
Morsy with another slow. Safe performance. Just no heart. No desire. Harness.. was he playing? Burns.. tonight I felt sorry for. Both before tonight.. just not consistently good enough in a highly important role.
Walton.. nearly a gift again tonight.. he's not been great. Yet never swapped.
Defence been changed though. Various different combos.
And also which I think Is really important.
Half our squad doesn't play in positions they are either used to or natural in.
When edmundson plays its a lcb.
Clarke said he was used to the Burns role.. we've not seen it.
Harness.. prefers being wide.. we play him centrally which explains why he's so bad at it
Ladapo.. a striker partner.. he needs one. He can't do it all on his own.
Broadhead. Further forward. But comes in and we play him deeper.
I'd like to see us get back to basics.
See Clarke in the burns role.
See Harness on the left of a front 3 not a 10
Etc etc. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:16 - Feb 14 with 7741 views | LankHenners |
If I had to choose two words for it they'd be 'tempo' and 'belief'.
The former seems to have crept in over the last couple of months or so. Always thought Evans and Morsy had a tendency to hold onto the ball for too long and take too many touches between them but since Evans was out then came back from injury it ramped up and we really do move the ball so slowly. We've lost how to really attack teams - earlier in the season (MK Dons, Shrewsbury) we'd blow the other team out the water so quickly we'd have the game done early then comfortably hold it out or (Accrington, Cambridge) we'd be so relentless that we'd find the breakthrough after wearing the opposition down so much. Now we're over patient and over cautious for whatever reason, and think it has to do with the latter word.
Agree with you that it's too simple to blame it all on Charlton, although the difference between coming back to win 4-2 having been pegged back to 2-2 and what actually happened must have quite different effects on mindset and what did happen that day has probably contributed to the overall lack of confidence/belief in our ability to get games done. There have been too many games where we've failed to break a team down or conceded late when we've been on top and I think that's just slowly been grinding away at the players.
Maybe they've been too quick, perhaps subconsciously, to think they're over a bad spell? A 3-0 win over Oxford gets them thinking they've blown away cobwebs then rescue a point against a very out of sorts Portsmouth side days later. A morale-boosting performance against an all-but-in-name Prem side in the FA Cup and a thrashing of Morecambe is followed by an awful performance and result at Cambridge. A spirited 2nd half against Wednesday where the word afterwards is it's something positive to take into the next game but they remain just words and we have another stinker tonight.
Perhaps, for all they tell the media and themselves that there's a long way to go and plenty of games to play, inwardly they're worrying about what's going on which either freezes them up a bit which sees results like tonight and in our recent away games, or panics them into things like conceding last minute against Plymouth or being so wasteful and making bad decisions against Lincoln. More than a coincidence that the best recent performances have been in essentially zero-pressure games in the cup or against Morecambe where we go in front and extend the lead so quickly everyone can relax?
In short, on the pitch that midfield needs sorting, we've been unlucky that almost the entirety of it has been injured all season, but hopefully Luongo is ready soon as he seems closest to being fit and I think would make a difference. Off it we somehow need to shake ourselves out of this lack of belief and confidence. Easiest way to do it is to win a bunch in a row but obviously tough to do, especially in our current form, and therefore becomes a negative spiral.
Bonus point, looking forward to seeing TJJ back soon - think we've missed him more than people realise and think he's someone that can grab something from nothing which we might have to do to pull ourselves back to how we know we can be. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:16 - Feb 14 with 7742 views | bluebudgie |
We signed the wrong players in January Instead of Broadhead and Hirst we should have signed a commanding centre-half and a box-to-box midfielder with that money. Kmac now has to rotate the team each game to keep the squad happy, which is having a detrimental effect on the team. |  | | |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:21 - Feb 14 with 7647 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 22:49 - Feb 14 by J2BLUE |
The one dimensional style of play and complete lack of urgency.
I just don't understand why, game after game, we are so slow and never really seem to get going. Late on in games where we need a goal we are still knocking it around the back four. Draws are killing us. Even if we really went for it and lost the odd game, a win is still worth three draws.
It's really odd and worrying. |
Could it also be a number of players suffering the after effects of illness draining their energy levels but us lacking the cover to be able to leave them out?
Heavier pitches could also play into it.
It has also felt that a lot of little things (call it luck if you like) have gone against us during that spell. Tonight was the first time for a while it felt like those things went for us with a couple of defensive moments (but not enough to win it). [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 23:30]
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:28 - Feb 14 with 7533 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:21 - Feb 14 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Could it also be a number of players suffering the after effects of illness draining their energy levels but us lacking the cover to be able to leave them out?
Heavier pitches could also play into it.
It has also felt that a lot of little things (call it luck if you like) have gone against us during that spell. Tonight was the first time for a while it felt like those things went for us with a couple of defensive moments (but not enough to win it). [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 23:30]
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Funny you mention the pitches.
We now have amazing pitches at the training ground, that don't cut up and enable the smooth passing football that we want to play.
Meanwhile in league one, all pitches have been deteriorating since November and the ball bobbles and bounces awkwardly. | |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:29 - Feb 14 with 7496 views | TalkingBlues |
I think the "what" is fairly obvious, but I'm still trying to figure out the "why". First third of the season we played with a very high intensity both on and off the ball, but since the end of November/beginning of December that intensity has, bar the odd half here and there when we were a goal down, completely vanished.
We don't press teams when they're in possession anything like we used to and and we are considerably slower in our build up play when we are in possession. That constant press we used to apply saw us turn over a heck of a lot of ball by forcing mistakes, which we generally managed quite successfully to turn into a lightning quick attacking opportunity, hence the mental amount of shots we were racking up each game, everything was front foot football, albeit we lacked a bit of quality when it came to the end ball and finishing etc, the sheer number of chances created dictated that we'd score goals one way, or another. Similarly, ball from the back used to be brought forward at break neck speed, both through the middle for Evans/Morsy to drop in and receive, but perhaps more commonly, down the line for Burns/Davis to bomb onto. Now, we literally walk around the pitch in possession at the back (Keogh makes me want to punch him when doing this) passing the ball sideways between CB's in our own half, countless times a match, allowing the opposition to just sit in position.
You could be fooled into thinking that the manager had completely changed our approach and asked the players to do a different job, but McK still constantly refers to the "really high intensity" strategy and we still play the same formations, so why aren't the players doing the same job they were a few months ago? |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:41 - Feb 14 with 7320 views | blaggers |
I agree it's the drive from midfield, Evans and Morsy is the best combo we have. We really really miss Evans, who allows Morsy to be more effective. |  |
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| Ok. Let’s have a grown up conversation about where things have gone wrong. on 23:42 - Feb 14 with 7299 views | Mckenna1263 |
It begins and ends with the manager. Has always been the way. If he can't do the job then get some else who can organise the players to get the job done. If promotion this season was not important then management should tell the supporters. There is no evidence that mckenna is capable of doing that if you look at the result against the main promotion contenders. It's not like it will be any easier next season. | | | |
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