Forum | VAR and how I'd change it... by norfsufblue

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VAR and how I'd change it... 12:44 - May 10 with 1179 views

Referee decisions are their objective views... ultimately their deci should be final for themselves to stand by... so
Let's give all teams 1 challenge per half, as in cricket any upheld challenge is retained BUT.... let the match referee review his decision on hos own with no outside influence! ... his performance can then be judged after the game.

I think this would help raise referees own standards and team captains would have to think very seriously about their appeals... Borderline offsides are a tricky issue but do you know what let's improve the linos and include them as a reason for challenge!

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:48 - May 10 with 1058 views

J2BLUE

We were told it was for clear and obvious errors. Stop drawing lines. If you can't tell from 1-2 replays then it's not clear and obvious.

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:51 - May 10 with 1049 views

homer_123

an even easier and far more elegant solution.

Remove VAR - it was never needed.

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:55 - May 10 with 1026 views

norfsufblue

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:51 - May 10 by homer_123
an even easier and far more elegant solution. Remove VAR - it was never needed.

Oh I wish.... but ..you know!

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:58 - May 10 with 1018 views

homer_123

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:55 - May 10 by norfsufblue
Oh I wish.... but ..you know!

Tough to polish a turd isn't it?

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:02 - May 10 with 1001 views

norfsufblue

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:58 - May 10 by homer_123
Tough to polish a turd isn't it?

No argument there!

VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:12 - May 10 with 961 views

Illinoisblue

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:51 - May 10 by homer_123
an even easier and far more elegant solution. Remove VAR - it was never needed.

This. Just have goal line technology and if we must, the automated offside tech.

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:15 - May 10 with 952 views

Kieran_Knows

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:51 - May 10 by homer_123
an even easier and far more elegant solution. Remove VAR - it was never needed.

It's not going to go away now, but one thing that surely could be asked, why can't we use officials from other countries? We saw earlier this season how a team of English ref and officials went to Saudi to oversee a game, so why can't we do the same with French, German etc officials?

I watch a lot of foreign football, mainly German and French as that's easily watchable, and they don't have half the controversy or trouble we do. I watched a French game last weekend and I swear all VAR decisions took no longer than 15 seconds apiece.

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:37 - May 10 with 896 views

jayessess

Think the underlying problem is that everyone with an allegiance in football (ie. managers, players, fans) just wants decisions to go their preferred way and contrives a way that VAR is responsible for them.

On Sunday, the ref gave Brighton a soft penalty and VAR confirmed it. People who didn't like the penalty blamed VAR, even though the on-field ref gave the penalty.

Culture in football is just to complain constantly about refereeing decisions. We did it so much with on-field refereeing that the authorities took it as a green light for the awful VAR. That same culture has now just been transferred to VAR, which we think ought to always get decisions right (ie. never make decisions we disagree with) but logically can't (because these things are subjective and partisan, so any decision-making process will make decisions we disagree with).

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:44 - May 10 with 870 views

BlueRaider

I agree, and the team has to say exactly what they are appealing for (e.g. number 7 was offside).

This would alleviate one of the main problems of it for me - the fact that you don't know what they are looking at !

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:45 - May 10 with 866 views

Nutkins_Return

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:48 - May 10 by J2BLUE
We were told it was for clear and obvious errors. Stop drawing lines. If you can't tell from 1-2 replays then it's not clear and obvious.

Pretty sure that was never for offsides and this is a bandwagon that has been jumped on. The idea of not having it if not obvious with eye is utterly ludicrous. Why can't people get their head round the basic concept of camera angles on TV making this impossible. If camera is one side of player it will look onside and the other it will look offside. You have to have lines and you have to have a consistent method or not do it all. So that's the argument - do it or not.

Think for one minute on your proposal. Immediately on MOTD after 3 decisions are shown to be wrong their would be the same old uproar "disgraceful'.

To be honest this just need to be automated and instant which is coming. It will be more like Hawkeye and instant.

They use VAR for far too much but offside will be sorted and fine soon. Like the goaline tech which works great.

[Post edited 10 May 17:39]

VAR and how I'd change it... on 14:17 - May 10 with 772 views

Garv

It's a lovely idea...in theory. In practice it would just be another thing to think about, another thing for broadcasters to create uproar and controversy about (which they love). It's not cricket, it's football.

Ultimately it's more change which is what has got us into this mess in the first place.

Same goes for broadcasting the ref's mic to the stadium/TV - that's really going to ease pressure on officials isn't it?

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 14:22 - May 10 with 760 views

SmithersJones

VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:45 - May 10 by Nutkins_Return

[Post edited 10 May 17:39]

Agreed. It’s the speed of VAR which causes a lot of the issues. There’s a marginal offside call and it takes 5 minutes to decide that a player is a few millimetres offside, so we don’t like it. But if the ball is over / not over the goal line by a few millimetres we’re ok with that because it’s instant. This semi-automated offside thing has a lot riding on it.

VAR and how I'd change it... on 14:27 - May 10 with 756 views

jayessess

VAR and how I'd change it... on 13:45 - May 10 by Nutkins_Return

[Post edited 10 May 17:39]

I'm surprised they introduced VAR without that kind of automation in the first place. It doesn't strike me as particularly advanced technology. Is it really much more complex than what Hawk-Eye (first developed 24 years ago!) does in cricket and tennis?

Can't believe they went "let's just have 2 guys with radios drawing lines on video stills" as version one!

[Post edited 10 May 14:27]

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 14:49 - May 10 with 730 views

ibbleobble

The acronym VAR should have stopped at ‘Vuvuzelas are rubbish’ in South Africa in 2010. In fact, a vuvuzela is actually more use to the game; at least it was iconic.

VAR and how I'd change it... on 14:51 - May 10 with 725 views

Vaughan8

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:48 - May 10 by J2BLUE
We were told it was for clear and obvious errors. Stop drawing lines. If you can't tell from 1-2 replays then it's not clear and obvious.

exactly this. It should be brought in for absolute howlers, instead of marginal offsides.

EDIT: Just to add, the european (i.e.champions league, europa league) games seem to have it a lot better. I know there was a linesman cock-up the other night, but in general.....

[Post edited 10 May 14:52]

VAR and how I'd change it... on 15:23 - May 10 with 676 views

lazyblue

VAR and how I'd change it... on 12:51 - May 10 by homer_123
an even easier and far more elegant solution. Remove VAR - it was never needed.

It was needed, too many bloody managers used refs as excuse every time they lost a game and now 98% of decisions are correct so much higher than before.

VAR and how I'd change it... on 15:34 - May 10 with 658 views

Pencilpete

VAR and how I'd change it... on 15:23 - May 10 by lazyblue
It was needed, too many bloody managers used refs as excuse every time they lost a game and now 98% of decisions are correct so much higher than before.

The earlier post said it all - it was brought in to stop clear and obvious errors.

if you need to watch it 10 times over in slow motion, draw lines and diagrams and freeze it frame by frame then it isn't a clear and obvious error - the VAR officials should watch it once in slow motion and if they can't see an error then the on field decision stands

The one thing i'm not looking forward to next season is every time we score a goal we will have to sit for 5 minutes while VAR tries to find a reason to disallow it

VAR and how I'd change it... on 15:47 - May 10 with 638 views

DarkBrandon

This argument about allowing so many appeals doesn’t work imo.

Every goal would be reviewed. Because, why not? There could be a foul or an offside in be build up. If you lose your appeal, well tough. I’d be pretty confident that would be the game theory optimal way to use them.

So you’d continue to ruin that aspect of the game.

And it would be no better more broadly, because all the other errors that happen when refs make mistakes would remain errors.

This isn’t like Tennis or Cricket when you have hundreds of decisions, and you are appealing up to 3. You’d get three goals and a sending off in a game and they’d all be reviewed

VAR and how I'd change it... on 16:20 - May 10 with 605 views

jayessess

VAR and how I'd change it... on 15:34 - May 10 by Pencilpete

With line decisions, I don't really see what everyone else sees in having a "clear and obvious" caveat for offsides.

Football is a rules-based game, so you'd need an actual rule defining what a "clear and obvious" offside error is. So you end up with a rule stipulating that the assistant's decision stands unless it's wrong relative to a certain tolerance (say 5cm/10cm either way). But then you still have to measure to that tolerance, so you're still back to waiting for VAR to draw lines on a still image. Yes, he's off, but is he offside beyond the VAR tolerance.

Same tedious nonsense, but now you've got managers who can see that they conceded a goal to a player who was offside (but within the tolerance) or had a goal by an onside player disallowed (but within the tolerance). More tedious griping.

I don't get that why that would be any better than it is now?

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 16:47 - May 10 with 567 views

rickw

VAR and how I'd change it... on 16:20 - May 10 by jayessess

The problem with the offside calls now is there is no longer such thing as level.

I think give the VAR officials 10-20 seconds and if they can't tell either way it's called level and the goal stands. Offside was never meant to be about an inch or two - it doesn't matter!

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 16:48 - May 10 with 560 views

ITFC_Forever

Keep goal-line technology.

Bin VAR.

Job done.

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 17:16 - May 10 with 529 views

ScottCandage

My proposal

1) VAR is never used unless and until the referee determines that he or she and their officials cannot make the determination

2) Once the ref asks for clarification, there is no more communication between VAR and the ref

3) VAR makes the determination without input from the ref and communicates their decision to the crowd via PA/video

4) If VAR cannot make a determination within 90 seconds of being asked to do so, play will resume with the latest team in possession shall receive an uncontested throw in

VAR and how I'd change it... on 17:41 - May 10 with 480 views

You_Bloo_Right

It seems VAR is here to stay and as the technology is not up to making the hairline decisions that are currently being made, the offside rule has to change to accommodate the technological shortfalls.

Not sure exactly how, of course, but just my take.

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VAR and how I'd change it... on 17:44 - May 10 with 474 views

Nutkins_Return

VAR and how I'd change it... on 14:51 - May 10 by Vaughan8
exactly this. It should be brought in for absolute howlers, instead of marginal offsides. EDIT: Just to add, the european (i.e.champions league, europa league) games seem to have it a lot better. I know there was a linesman cock-up the other night, but in general..... [Post edited 10 May 14:52]

It's not though is it. Where do you draw the line on clear and obvious for an offside. You wouldn't get everyone agreeing on that and you would create even more duty and outrage. Offside is either on or off. Just needs properly automating and instant. As long as it is consistent, quick and well explained it will be fine.

VAR and how I'd change it... on 17:55 - May 10 with 447 views

Bossy

I've thought about this long and hard. On offsides specifically…

Option 1: Insane fidelity and automation, for example chips in boots and in the ball, change offside so it's done by feet only as that is how you move on the pitch. As soon as the ball is kicked (chip will tell us when), boot alignment is done and it is AUTOMATICALLY and IMMEDIATELY called offside if even a nano-millimetre off. Do away with linesmen where this tech is available

Option 2: Make the tech deliberately worse. Offside cameras are intentionally very low resolution and footage can't be slowed down. This should take care of the ridiculous ones where lasers are drawn and interpreted and decisions are made by a human on the thickness of a human hair.

Option 3: Do away with VAR and accept mistakes like adults.

My preferred is Option 3. I am also partial to Option 2.

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