| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem 22:37 - Sep 4 with 7521 views | Bluedandy |
... appears to imply, possibly rightly, that parliament derives its sovereignty from the people and therefore does not possess a divine right to defy the biggest democratic mandate in British political history.
Recent shenanigans are not really about blocking no deal, it's all about blocking Brexit and parliamentarians are hoping millions of working-class people are just too stupid to work it out.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/03/today-was-a-very-dark-day-for-british-d |  | | |  |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:51 - Sep 5 with 900 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:26 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
Some good points cheers. One thing about Civil Servants. Call me cynical but don't you think there is a good argument that plenty of them would much rather remain as to do so means a hell of a lot less work and stress rather than having to rewrite and bring our own rules etc. up to date again? They've been able to delegate a lot of stuff to the EU which if we leave they will have to deal with again. It's a bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
Just a thought. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 13:30]
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I know a lot of Civil Servants. They are, in the main, conscientious and hard working (if annoyed by politicisation and stifled by bureaucracy). They probably don't want their jobs being made more difficult by removal of cooperation agreements with our major partners.
If the country ends up less well off as a result of Brexit, their (already not generous by commercial standards) pay will be frozen (again) and their jobs might even be at risk. |  |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:52 - Sep 5 with 896 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:45 - Sep 5 by Herbivore |
I think it's a hell of a stretch to say that civil servants are against Brexit because it will mean expanding the civil service. I tend to go with the simplest explanation, which is that most of them are against leaving because it's a terrible idea. |
Of course some will be opposed strongly on political ideological grounds. But some will be just as strongly opposed due to the potentially sleepless nights of all the extra stress and work which will be incumbent on them. |  |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:08 - Sep 5 with 865 views | Guthrum |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:21 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
The point I'm making here is that to get a better idea of how great or not the EU is we need to dig into the primary sources (i.e. the actual treaties and directives) rather than relying on questionable secondary sources (i.e. relying on arguments from those who already have skin in the game one way or the other). As they always say, read the small print before you sign! 99% of us were guilty of failing to read the small print (and we can't really be blamed as we are mostly all very busy with work and family life etc.) before we signed at the Referendum so how can any of us be entirely sure we made the right choice?
I read CAP in detail at university and I can assure you (at least from what I could gather) that its terms appeared to benefit the French a lot more than it did us (I've got an essay gathering dust somewhere in the loft about it!). I'm very rusty but if I recall correctly De Gaulle refused to budge an inch with Macmillan over CAP which in part caused our initial negotiations to break down. Tony Benn argued that the CAP was effectively a "siege economy" designed to favour the French and harm Britain. I know that might all seem long ago but the point I'm making is they played hardball when we joined and I imagine some of our membership terms (not all of course) have been a lot more advantageous to them than it has us ever since.
Moreover, our EU contributions were meant to rise by 20% in one year in recent times which if true is very steep!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/19/britains-contribution-eu-rises-2
These are the sorts of things we need to wrestle with in far greater detail I think in order to decide is it such a great club to be a member of or not? |
But, on the other hand, we had all sorts of advantageous opt-outs. The most significant, of course, being non-membership of the Euro. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:13 - Sep 5 with 854 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 13:52 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
Of course some will be opposed strongly on political ideological grounds. But some will be just as strongly opposed due to the potentially sleepless nights of all the extra stress and work which will be incumbent on them. |
I find that highly implausible. |  |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:16 - Sep 5 with 850 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:08 - Sep 5 by Guthrum |
But, on the other hand, we had all sorts of advantageous opt-outs. The most significant, of course, being non-membership of the Euro. |
I think we had to play hardball on that one after the disaster of the ERM and Black Wednesday. There are certain lines in the sand and at the time that was one we decided to stand firm on. Although there were plenty of others arguing for us to join the Euro at the time. [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 14:16]
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:17 - Sep 5 with 841 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:13 - Sep 5 by Herbivore |
I find that highly implausible. |
I find you highly implausible! ;-)
Just joking, couldn't resist it. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:17 - Sep 5 with 841 views | Andrew4445 |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 23:33 - Sep 4 by Eireannach_gorm |
"biggest democratic mandate in British political history"
If we are talking about referendums, the 1975 one on staying in the EEC had a larger mandate. |
And I believe the 1992 GE had a larger turnout.
This advisory referendum would rank third by any measure. | | | |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:23 - Sep 5 with 820 views | Herbivore |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:17 - Sep 5 by midastouch |
I find you highly implausible! ;-)
Just joking, couldn't resist it. |
Think about it for a minute. The Civil Service employees high calibre University graduates who are usually very pokticially conscious. The idea that they would pick a position on Brexit because of potential extra workload rather than a consideration of all of the issues is rather fanciful. | |
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:37 - Sep 5 with 797 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:23 - Sep 5 by Herbivore |
Think about it for a minute. The Civil Service employees high calibre University graduates who are usually very pokticially conscious. The idea that they would pick a position on Brexit because of potential extra workload rather than a consideration of all of the issues is rather fanciful. |
You'd argue the toss till the cows come home wouldn't you!?
I worked as a Civil Servant once for the DWP and I don't consider myself high calibre and most of the people I worked with weren't that high calibre either. My boss used to get me to write his in-house job applications so it was like the blind leading the blind!
Now the point I'm making is when I was there the culture was often very resistant to big change and upheaval. People didn't want to volunteer for more work, rather most would try and duck it. There was even industrial action whenever big change was threatened. So based on that I know there were plenty of folk (in the very large big building I worked in at least) that didn't vote with their feet when it came to taking on a bucket load more work for the same pay!
Anyway, let's just agree to disagree. I get the feeling if I said black you'd say white Herbibore. By all means you have the last word as I'm sure you're going to want to, please be my guest... [Post edited 5 Sep 2019 14:40]
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| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:56 - Sep 5 with 753 views | midastouch |
| Interesting piece on why potentially unhinged Remainers are the real problem on 14:23 - Sep 5 by Herbivore |
Think about it for a minute. The Civil Service employees high calibre University graduates who are usually very pokticially conscious. The idea that they would pick a position on Brexit because of potential extra workload rather than a consideration of all of the issues is rather fanciful. |
Shall we just settle for a 0-0 Herbibore draw or do you want to go straight to pen kicks as I can't be assed with 30 mins extra time! ;-)
If we go to pens I'm not sure if I'm going to let Norwood take his one first after his one at Posh! He just about got away with his one against the Shrews on Saturday.
As there's no game on Saturday maybe we could have a game at Portman Road of TWTD Leave vs Remain fans. It would be me against all of you but I could simply park the Vote Leave bus in front of the goal and spend 90 minutes counting the £350 million round the back. ;-) | |
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