| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... 15:00 - Aug 4 with 29151 views | WeWereZombies |
The next time anyone feels they have to absolutely win an argument, have the last say on a thread, pile in or claim to be piled into, maybe remember this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53607943 |  |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:04 - Aug 6 with 844 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 12:55 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
1. You reckon you could create a human in a lab? Hello Mr. Frankenstein, I didn't know you were a Town fan!
2. Where did the spark come from? Everything in the physical realm has a source. Even particles that just randomly pop into existence have come from somewhere.
The paradox of there can't have been a time when there was nothing (because something can't just come from nothing) but there MUST have been a time when there was nothing (in anything physical you always have a beginning) suggests that our universe - the big bang - must've come from somewhere else. Somewhere not governed by the same rules and laws (and either can create things from nothing or doesn't require a beginning, i.e. it's eternal).
You could argue our universe was created in another universe, and even THAT universe was created in another universe and so on, but eventually you get to a point of "what was the first one created from?"
It MUST be from somewhere not governed by the same laws, surely? |
1). He didn't say he could create a human in a lab from scratch. He said each step could be recreated. Humans are the result of billions of years of random mutations and natural selection but the process that occurred is understandable and known.
You could argue our universe was created in another universe, and even THAT universe was created in another universe and so on, but eventually you get to a point of "what was the first one created from?"
Perhaps not. If you are going to go with the cyclic universe model then when one universe collapses into a singularity before the next one starts then time no longer exists at that point so there is no start or end. It could get very weird where there is a form of paradox that we simply can't understand.
The answer is here that we simply don't know. That doesn't mean you need to say it's from different laws or anything "supernatural".
SB [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 13:15]
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:13 - Aug 6 with 821 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 12:55 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
1. You reckon you could create a human in a lab? Hello Mr. Frankenstein, I didn't know you were a Town fan!
2. Where did the spark come from? Everything in the physical realm has a source. Even particles that just randomly pop into existence have come from somewhere.
The paradox of there can't have been a time when there was nothing (because something can't just come from nothing) but there MUST have been a time when there was nothing (in anything physical you always have a beginning) suggests that our universe - the big bang - must've come from somewhere else. Somewhere not governed by the same rules and laws (and either can create things from nothing or doesn't require a beginning, i.e. it's eternal).
You could argue our universe was created in another universe, and even THAT universe was created in another universe and so on, but eventually you get to a point of "what was the first one created from?"
It MUST be from somewhere not governed by the same laws, surely? |
1. Yes. Test-tube babies are a version of that. But it's just about splicing human DNA into a cell. If you really wanted to do it from start to finish then you can. And knowing that is the reason we don't do it - it's a waste of time and money.
2. That's not understood yet - nor the very, very early stages of the Big Bang as our science falls down. But the suggestion that we are a plan or design based on the conditions in the early Universe that we can know and observe makes no sense. There's just expanding space and energy which create the variables for all the dice throws that follow.
This is a pretty good read:
https://www.space.com/31192-what-triggered-the-big-bang.html
There are lots of things to answer but as we've seen proper science repeatedly and increasingly find answers to the previously mysterious and "impossible to explain" over past centuries then I think you can park "meaning" in more philosophical territory for the time being at least. [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 13:15]
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:29 - Aug 6 with 793 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:04 - Aug 6 by StokieBlue |
1). He didn't say he could create a human in a lab from scratch. He said each step could be recreated. Humans are the result of billions of years of random mutations and natural selection but the process that occurred is understandable and known.
You could argue our universe was created in another universe, and even THAT universe was created in another universe and so on, but eventually you get to a point of "what was the first one created from?"
Perhaps not. If you are going to go with the cyclic universe model then when one universe collapses into a singularity before the next one starts then time no longer exists at that point so there is no start or end. It could get very weird where there is a form of paradox that we simply can't understand.
The answer is here that we simply don't know. That doesn't mean you need to say it's from different laws or anything "supernatural".
SB [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 13:15]
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Yeah I was being a bit facetious with point 1. I appreciate Darth hasn't got billions of years, and probably has a lot of other stuff on.
I take your other points, although I still can't get my head around not needing a first singularity, even if time itself doesn't exist. But like you say, it could be a form of paradox we simply can't understand. Like my cat and the internet. |  |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:32 - Aug 6 with 787 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:13 - Aug 6 by Darth_Koont |
1. Yes. Test-tube babies are a version of that. But it's just about splicing human DNA into a cell. If you really wanted to do it from start to finish then you can. And knowing that is the reason we don't do it - it's a waste of time and money.
2. That's not understood yet - nor the very, very early stages of the Big Bang as our science falls down. But the suggestion that we are a plan or design based on the conditions in the early Universe that we can know and observe makes no sense. There's just expanding space and energy which create the variables for all the dice throws that follow.
This is a pretty good read:
https://www.space.com/31192-what-triggered-the-big-bang.html
There are lots of things to answer but as we've seen proper science repeatedly and increasingly find answers to the previously mysterious and "impossible to explain" over past centuries then I think you can park "meaning" in more philosophical territory for the time being at least. [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 13:15]
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Again, like Herbs, you're bringing up design, which I have never stated. I'll refer you to my analogy of throwing a lit match into a forest. What happens thereafter wasn't 'designed' or even 'planned' by me... but it was started by me.
I'll have a read of your link. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:39 - Aug 6 with 780 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:32 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
Again, like Herbs, you're bringing up design, which I have never stated. I'll refer you to my analogy of throwing a lit match into a forest. What happens thereafter wasn't 'designed' or even 'planned' by me... but it was started by me.
I'll have a read of your link. |
So if "meaning" is just a cause then, yes there is a "meaning".
But it's what I was trying to say earlier that "meaning" becomes itself a meaningless human term when things just are and just happen. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:57 - Aug 6 with 759 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:39 - Aug 6 by Darth_Koont |
So if "meaning" is just a cause then, yes there is a "meaning".
But it's what I was trying to say earlier that "meaning" becomes itself a meaningless human term when things just are and just happen. |
Meaning is a separate discussion now. See my reply to Herbs back on page which begins "Ok, excellent post, thanks." | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 14:01 - Aug 6 with 747 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 13:57 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
Meaning is a separate discussion now. See my reply to Herbs back on page which begins "Ok, excellent post, thanks." |
OK, but you've used the term "deliberate" as well.
And it's this attempt to find an intuitive explanation or reasoning that's the danger. Whether we're talking pure science or pure thought.
The answers and the true wonders have arrived when we've got past that. | |
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